Rage

[Azazel]

OK so we've had some discussion on this thing in the Useless gaming chatter thread. I'm not sure whether to pick it up on release or whether to give it 6 months to a year and do my usual cheapass job.

Two-player co-op in Rage can take place either locally or online, and what's more, co-op takes place within the confines of Rage's core fiction.
What this means is that co-op missions offer slightly different takes on missions that already appear in the single-player campaign. At the time I witnessed a sampling of Rage's co-op, there were eight missions readied, though more can be forthcoming. For the time being, these missions must be unlocked in the single-player campaign before you can play them cooperatively, although this can change between now and when Rage finally launches this September. But don't worry about having to play what may at first strike you as redundant missions that you already tackled on your own. These missions will have added backstory, and should give gamers concerned with Rage's narrative a better understanding of certain events.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/116/1162311p1.html

The first part of the bolded section is what concerns me. I'm looking at playing the game co-op with my wife, and there's basically no chance she's going to solo her way through a FPS.

[Malakili]

If you are getting a console version will it unlock for anyone playing locally if you unlock them first? Still a bit on the lame side.

[Azazel]

I preordered 2 copies today from a local chain offering the whatever-bonus-shit-pre-order edition for only $5 more than my overseas sources would charge (without the 2 week wait). I did so via the phone when the guy on the other end told me he could do it without any deposit. So if it turns out to be garbage or co-op-unfriendly when the reviews hit, I'll just call them and cancel and go with the bargain bin single-player option sometime in 2012.

What's the release date in the US?

[Rendakor]

October 4th.

[Merusk]

If you are getting a console version will it unlock for anyone playing locally if you unlock them first? Still a bit on the lame side.

It would have to, unless you're opening two save games on the same console to play co-op which would be so incredibly stupid that it's not worth thinking about.

That's probably where the requirement came from anyway.  It sounds very much like an old-school console feature rather than something that came from an understanding of PCs and PC gaming over networks.  (That's translated its way onto consoles these days.)

[NiX]

I preordered 2 copies today from a local chain offering the whatever-bonus-shit-pre-order edition for only $5 more than my overseas sources would charge (without the 2 week wait). I did so via the phone when the guy on the other end told me he could do it without any deposit. So if it turns out to be garbage or co-op-unfriendly when the reviews hit, I'll just call them and cancel and go with the bargain bin single-player option sometime in 2012.

What's the release date in the US?

Every indication is that it's not real co-op. You can't play through the full game with a co-op partner, it's just a handful of the missions retooled for co-op.

[Azazel]

Yeah, that's what I'm concerned about. Since it comes out a day and a half earlier in the US, I'm hoping there'll be enough detailed reviews out so I can decide if I want to cancel one or both copies.

[Kail]

Anyone know how sandboxy this game is?  I'd kill for more sci-fi open worldy stuff, but I'm not sure how this game is set up.  Game write-up on Steam says "An expansive experience – Beyond the first-person action and vehicle combat, RAGE offers a world open to explore, with unique characters, side quests, and a compelling storyline." which I'm not sure if it means we're looking at another Fallout, or if it's just a series of long hallways with guys to blow up and marketing thinks that "open world" means that some of the areas don't have ceilings.

[Ingmar]

Not fired up about this one personally. When was the last time id put together a game that was more than just a cool tech demo?

[Azazel]

Anyone know how sandboxy this game is?  I'd kill for more sci-fi open worldy stuff, but I'm not sure how this game is set up.  Game write-up on Steam says "An expansive experience – Beyond the first-person action and vehicle combat, RAGE offers a world open to explore, with unique characters, side quests, and a compelling storyline." which I'm not sure if it means we're looking at another Fallout, or if it's just a series of long hallways with guys to blow up and marketing thinks that "open world" means that some of the areas don't have ceilings.

I've also heard conflicting reports about how it's both more and less RPG-ish than Borderlands.

[tgr]

At this point I'm just hoping it'll be one of the oldschool FPSes. And by that I merely mean that it won't have the consolitis-inspired snap-to-structure crap. I'm betting on this not being the case since I've prepurchased it on steam, but if even id can't do this right, then I'm just giving up on FPSes.

[Velorath]

Not fired up about this one personally. When was the last time id put together a game that was more than just a cool tech demo?

I don't know, this is the first time I've actually liked the Art Direction in an id game at least, and I think it's pretty ballsy of them to focus their competitive multiplayer entirely around the vehicle combat.

[Sky]

Not fired up about this one personally. When was the last time id put together a game that was more than just a cool tech demo?

Never, imo. Quake 2 was good fun at the LAN party, but quickly got tired. Hell, my disdain of id goes back to everyone going nuts over Doom and I'm all "Guys, ULTIMA UNDERWORLD is the greatest 3d game ever made", predating Kanye by 15 years or so.

Anyone know how sandboxy this game is?  I'd kill for more sci-fi open worldy stuff, but I'm not sure how this game is set up.  Game write-up on Steam says "An expansive experience – Beyond the first-person action and vehicle combat, RAGE offers a world open to explore, with unique characters, side quests, and a compelling storyline." which I'm not sure if it means we're looking at another Fallout, or if it's just a series of long hallways with guys to blow up and marketing thinks that "open world" means that some of the areas don't have ceilings.

They don't say "open world". They say "a world open to exploration", which is completely meaningless marketing double-talk. Has an id engine ever been used for an open-world? I used to hate the limitations (again, back in Q2 era level building).

[Morfiend]

At this point I'm just hoping it'll be one of the oldschool FPSes. And by that I merely mean that it won't have the consolitis-inspired snap-to-structure crap. I'm betting on this not being the case since I've prepurchased it on steam, but if even id can't do this right, then I'm just giving up on FPSes.

This, 100 times.

[Malakili]

At this point I'm just hoping it'll be one of the oldschool FPSes. And by that I merely mean that it won't have the consolitis-inspired snap-to-structure crap. I'm betting on this not being the case since I've prepurchased it on steam, but if even id can't do this right, then I'm just giving up on FPSes.

This, 100 times.

Seems like a tall order.

[Morfiend]

At this point I'm just hoping it'll be one of the oldschool FPSes. And by that I merely mean that it won't have the consolitis-inspired snap-to-structure crap. I'm betting on this not being the case since I've prepurchased it on steam, but if even id can't do this right, then I'm just giving up on FPSes.

This, 100 times.

Seems like a tall order.

A boy can dream can't he?

[schild]

At this point I'm just hoping it'll be one of the oldschool FPSes. And by that I merely mean that it won't have the consolitis-inspired snap-to-structure crap. I'm betting on this not being the case since I've prepurchased it on steam, but if even id can't do this right, then I'm just giving up on FPSes.

This, 100 times.

Seems like a tall order.

A boy can dream can't he?

A boy dreams of being an astronaut. A man dreams of PC Manufacturers not consolizing games.

[tgr]

A boy dreams of being an astronaut. A man dreams of PC Manufacturers not consolizing games.

A boy is disappointed most of the time. Oddly enough, so is a man.

[Ingmar]

I don't play a ton of shooters, what do you mean by the snap to structure thing?

[Kail]

I don't play a ton of shooters, what do you mean by the snap to structure thing?

I assume what he means is that in a lot of cover based shooters, you can hit a button to "get behind cover."  Like in the new Deus Ex game, you can hit the right mouse button to press up against the nearest wall.

[tgr]

Yeah, exactly that. Instead of giving me the option to lean out from a corner, I have to snap to a structure and hope that I can hit where I want to aim. And I have to suffer the 0.1-0.2 second of no control while the game does its snapping animation. I've lost count of how many times it's snapped to the wrong thing as well, costing me even more precious time. I can go on, but the common thing is that they end up taking away control from me at what might be a critical moment. It's a piece of shit feature that needs to die in a fucking fire.

I've seen it in mass effect 2 as well, where you apparently were unable to jump over f.ex a crater, you had to duck behind it by pressing space, then press space again to actually jump over the crater. Then there's dumb shit like BC2 at least had (I hear they've removed it, but I can't be arsed to fire BC2 up to find out) some weird limitation on whether or not you could strafe while running. I tested out gears of war and lasted about 5 minutes before I deleted that game in frustration because all it did was snap to literally everything you could imagine, most often the completely incorrect structure as well, so imagine my frustration when that shit seems to be spreading to literally every game I might conceivably want to play.

As said, it's even in deus ex: human revolution, and while irritating it's actually less irritating than its boss fights. vOv

[Azazel]

In BC2 you can't shoot while running (sprinting). Or do you mean you can't sprint sideways?

[tgr]

Heh. You can't even shoot while running? I haven't even hit upon that yet.

Yes, what I meant was that the last time I played BC2 you couldn't sprint sideways. It annoyed the piss out of me because I kept expecting it to work instinctively (because it's worked in every other FPS game I've ever played).

[Malakili]

Heh. You can't even shoot while running? I haven't even hit upon that yet.

Yes, what I meant was that the last time I played BC2 you couldn't sprint sideways. It annoyed the piss out of me because I kept expecting it to work instinctively (because it's worked in every other FPS game I've ever played).

You can't shoot while sprinting, which seems true in a lot of games.  Running to me just means moving around in that game at the normal pace, and you can shoot while doing that.  Anyway, what you say is annoying, yes, it took me a while to get used to using the sprint key without being able to strafe at the same time.

[tgr]

I keep thinking that most FPS games allow you to shoot while running, it's just inaccurate as fuck. I could be wrong and they're just slowing you to walking pace, but it's still better than just not doing the action the player expects.

[Azazel]

No, it's a sprint. You're being silly on both counts, and I also can't see how it has anything to do with the dreaded "consolitis". It's a nod to realism over older FPS games. I have no issue with it. It's not like older FPS games that had a useless "walk" function that no-one ever used because it was pointless and you'd always run. The default in BC2 is run. Walk (ie slow speed, quieter) is pretty much replaced by crouch-walking, and sprint is an extra. It's even got a whole different animation to the default "run".

[tgr]

The only reason I was bringing it up (and by it, I assume you're talking about the strafing while running (or sprinting, if you must)), was that it was interfering with my mental expectation of what should happen when I try to strafe sideways while running, much like how most FPS/TPS games these days basically all have a stick-to-structure feature. In DX it sometimes sticks to the wrong side because I was looking at the wrong pixel when selecting the button, and sometimes I'm unable to hit something because they've just gone past an arbitrary limit which causes the game to go into "just look around the corner" mode instead, instead of giving me the option to manually lean around the corner.

Personally, I grade the speeds as walk, jog, run. Semantics. vOv

[Azazel]

Yeah, we'll just call it a soft nod towards realism. Unless you have some YouTube footage of yourself running or sprinting sideways. Because that would be awesome.

[tgr]

If anything, their "soft nod" should've been implemented in such a manner that if you were trying to run sideways, you automatically slowed down to a jog, and sped up again when you stopped trying to strafe sideways. That would've enraged me a lot less, because in the implementation the last time I played, all it did was piss me off because I pressed a button to go sideways and nothing happened.

Kind of like the "hit shift to start running until you release the forward button". Let me hold shift for as long as I want to run, then slow down to a jog the instant I release it. How hard can it be.

[kildorn]

I actually far prefer the snap to cover mechanic (even with it's occasional odd choices of what cover to pick) over the oldschool shooter "just stand in the open and eat a hail of bullets" thing. I mean, I don't see how it's consolitis at all.

In my mind consolitis is more oversimplified inventories, single button has eight context sensitive functions, and small corridor based maps. Snap to cover may have gained popularity in console shooters, but it has nothing to do with being a console thing. It's an attempt to solve the gameplay illusion problems with "when under fire, everyone just.. stands there"

Even in older PC shooters, the NPCs took cover and shot from behind things, but the player couldn't. You were stuck with crouching behind things and hoping your player model didn't stick out.

All that said, I've seen no evidence of a cover system in the Rage videos. If anything, I assume someone said "we need a cover system" and the response was "and where do we fucking FIT it in this 21.5 fucking gig install?!"

[Malakili]

I think the main problem with a cover system is that it basically needs to bring you into third person view, which can be a bit jarring, and is especially problematic in multiplayer where the difference between winning and losing is measured in milliseconds.

[kildorn]

Oh, cover systems like DX:HR are hilarious. They work really well in third person shooters.

Switching me between first and third person mid combat? Stupid.

[tgr]

Oh, cover systems like DX:HR are hilarious. They work really well in third person shooters.

Switching me between first and third person mid combat? Stupid.

I've no problems with that at all, it worked fine in mass effect etc, you'll notice that the only thing I've been whining about there has been the duck-before-jump over crates etc, instead of just bouncing right over it.

Edit: actually, that's a bit of a lie. I found gears of war too happy to stick to anything, most often the wrong thing.

[Azazel]

If anything, their "soft nod" should've been implemented in such a manner that if you were trying to run sideways, you automatically slowed down to a jog, and sped up again when you stopped trying to strafe sideways. That would've enraged me a lot less, because in the implementation the last time I played, all it did was piss me off because I pressed a button to go sideways and nothing happened.

Kind of like the "hit shift to start running until you release the forward button". Let me hold shift for as long as I want to run, then slow down to a jog the instant I release it. How hard can it be.

Just checked it. Ran sideways (strafing), hit the sprint button, no difference - kept running sideways (strafing).

Maybe you were doing it wrong?

[murdoc]

Switching me between first and third person mid combat? Stupid.

Rainbox 6: Las Vegas did this very well I thought.