CCP heading for hotter water

[Endie]

My feeling is that we'll know it when we see it.  That's not a cop-out: it'll be obvious and we'll get the flying in space stuff that simply isn't planned right now.

[amiable]

Conspiracy theory on my blog here.

What is this?  I don't even...  Is this an elaborate troll?  Tell me you are not this crazy.

[Lantyssa]

I'll claim victory if they improve the game. vov

[Reg]

Are you actually still playing? Most F13 newbies who don't join up with Bat Country right away would have burned out on the game weeks ago.

[amiable]

Are you actually still playing? Most F13 newbies who don't join up with Bat Country right away would have burned out on the game weeks ago.

Who is this directed to?

[Lantyssa]

Are you actually still playing? Most F13 newbies who don't join up with Bat Country right away would have burned out on the game weeks ago.

I am.  A little less as my PvE corp was wardec'd by a griefer corp, DX3 was out, and I've been using my time off to do a lot of things I've been neglecting before the new job starts up.

I've still got my newbie out in Goonspace.  I may bring Ky out there though once she gets into ships that can cloak if my PvE corp doesn't get more active.  I'll be able to fit into a Jaguar tomorrow, so I'm really looking forward to that.

[Reg]

Ah but you have been in a PVE corp at least. Getting into a corp as soon as possible makes all the difference. Newbie soloers rarely last out the trial period.

Fake edit: Sorry for the derail. I'll be quiet now. 

[amiable]

I've still got my newbie out in Goonspace.  I may bring Ky out there though once she gets into ships that can cloak if my PvE corp doesn't get more active.  I'll be able to fit into a Jaguar tomorrow, so I'm really looking forward to that.

Not sure if you are left or right coast, but George ocean has been running roams at around 2100-2200 EST.  Come out with us and pown some noobs!  We can always use fast tackle/scouts if you want to fly a rifter.  If you have a covops and decent scanning skills you will be a bat country hero!

[Lantyssa]

That might work for me time-wise (CST, though my bed-time is coming much earlier due to the new job.).  I'm not very good utterly terrible at getting into groups.

I do love flying my Rifter.  Not a lot of skills because Ail is my alt though.  I'm going for covert ships after getting into my Jag.

Ah but you have been in a PVE corp at least. Getting into a corp as soon as possible makes all the difference. Newbie soloers rarely last out the trial period.

I can see that.  Surly also gave me a very nice battleship, and someone else gave me a Navy Scorpion to get me to do incursions with them since I refused to risk what Surly gave me  (and then he disappeared with the start of the semester right after I fit into it...).  I'm pretty set after all the boosts f13ers have given me.  It's helped my enjoyment a lot to not have to scrounge at all.

[squirrel]

Conspiracy theory on my blog here.

I don't...just dude...wat?

  is nowhere near expressive enough.

[ajax34i]

So, Mittani is pausing his media attack on CCP because CCP has decided to have meetings with the CSM, and while there are no details at all because of   everyone is feeling positive about this first meeting and looking forward to the next (few).

[tgr]

Another interview with mittens, this time at eurogamer:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-09-eurogamer-interviews-the-eve-council-chairman-interview

[Stabs]

Ha ha, see I've touched a nerve.

I particularly like the contention that Mittens, the ex-spymaster, can't possibly be doing secret stuff because he would have said so on Jabber. Then again you can always trust a lawyer Goon CEO guy with a cuddly name.

[Zetor]

I never played Eve, but Mittens sounds like a trustworthy name to me 

[tgr]

Ha ha, see I've touched a nerve.

Yes. You've touched a nerve just like some old hobo sitting outside my apartment complex touches a nerve when he starts yelling about how the gubment is taking our lunch money. Or that there are aliens abducting people.

Who were you in-game again?

[Ingmar]

Goons infiltrated like every other group in Eve, why not CCP too?

[Kageru]

They only infiltrate groups that are meaningful to Eve.

[Sir T]

So, no reason for them to infiltrate CCP then... 

[amiable]

Ha ha, see I've touched a nerve.

I particularly like the contention that Mittens, the ex-spymaster, can't possibly be doing secret stuff because he would have said so on Jabber. Then again you can always trust a lawyer Goon CEO guy with a cuddly name.

if you are going to peddle conspiracy theories a much more plausible one is that Mitten's has had enough of dealing with all the retards in our alliance is trying to destroy EvE in an attempt to :fuckgoons: in an even more spectacular fashion than Kartoon.  

[jakonovski]

Meanwhile, CCP creates the first Eve Online fashion show.

[palmer_eldritch]

Ha ha, see I've touched a nerve.

I particularly like the contention that Mittens, the ex-spymaster, can't possibly be doing secret stuff because he would have said so on Jabber. Then again you can always trust a lawyer Goon CEO guy with a cuddly name.

if you are going to peddle conspiracy theories a much more plausible one is that Mitten's has had enough of dealing with all the retards in our alliance is trying to destroy EvE in an attempt to :fuckgoons: in an even more spectacular fashion than Kartoon.  

Add this to the blogpost, Stabs:

"EDIT: An interesting theory reaches me from a player who is a member of Goonswarm itself. He suggests (etc . . .)"

[Stabs]

Ha ha, see I've touched a nerve.

Yes. You've touched a nerve just like some old hobo sitting outside my apartment complex touches a nerve when he starts yelling about how the gubment is taking our lunch money. Or that there are aliens abducting people.

I'm pretty sure the gubment IS taking our lunch money. Or do you think this "tax" rumour is just a conspiracy theory.

The thing about aliens wouldn't surprise me, shifty they are, never trusted them.

[Stabs]

In other news The Mittani posted this yesterday following discussions between the CSM and CCP Zulu (who is Senior Producer and content director for Eve):

I agree, 'sounds good' is unsatisfying in this situation. Red meat is the only thing that concerns CSM6, not sound bites - deliverable improvements to EVE and a ruthless focus on FiS.

Yet updates to the players have to come across as best they can across the wall of the NDA, and right now we can only divulge that a meeting occurred and that methods of resolution were discussed.

I thought it was a useful conversation and I look forward to the next meeting - useful enough that we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.

[tgr]

This is either priceless, or a huge troll. I'm having a hard time deciding exactly which.
http://tagn.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/vast-goon-conspiracy-ensnares-even-its-foes/

[Numtini]

This is just getting funnier and funnier.

[Wilhelm Arcturus]

This is either priceless, or a huge troll. I'm having a hard time deciding exactly which.
http://tagn.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/vast-goon-conspiracy-ensnares-even-its-foes/

Can't it be both?

[Stabs]

This is either priceless, or a huge troll. I'm having a hard time deciding exactly which.
http://tagn.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/vast-goon-conspiracy-ensnares-even-its-foes/

Can't it be both?

That's an amazing avatar picture. Is there a story that goes with it?

[Lum]

I have basically CCP Sreegs' job at NCsoft. I guess that means I'm a spy there too!

(note that my input on design decisions on Aion/CoH/GW2/whatever is about as minimal as Sreegs' is on Eve.)

[Stabs]

I have no idea if you're a spy Lum. Don't you know?

I accept that Sreegs has minimal control over design (but note that the other ex-Goon GM is in charge of design) but I don't accept that he has minimal control over the game. If you think that the guy who (potentially) decides which botters get banned and which botters get left in peace you are not up to speed with the state of nullsec Eve. Every space-holding alliance has largescale botting and RMT.

Meanwhile the focus of CCP's anti botter policy is : non-spaceholders.

Let me ask another question. Do you believe that CCP T20 was favouring BoB while he worked on Eve? If you do, how do you reconcile that with your No True Scotsman approach to game professional integrity?

[tgr]

Who are these botting non-spaceholders you speak of, and how would they affect nullsec?

And please, do tell how stoffer is going to ruin the game by making improvements to it.

[Lum]

I have no idea if you're a spy Lum. Don't you know?

I have an idea! (hint: answer is no)

I accept that Sreegs has minimal control over design (but note that the other ex-Goon GM is in charge of design) but I don't accept that he has minimal control over the game. If you think that the guy who (potentially) decides which botters get banned and which botters get left in peace you are not up to speed with the state of nullsec Eve. Every space-holding alliance has largescale botting and RMT.

If you think that I, or Sreegs, are going through and manually looking at every botter and saying "oh, we can ban him, I don't like them very much", well, you know, that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Not only is it playing fast and loose with the company's long term future for a really stupid reason (something we'll come back to presently), it's also a really shitty way to actually get the job done. If you were to actually make a dent in things you would need to work on processes that automate detection as much as possible, and have more than one person doing the actual action off that detection, which would mitigate favoritism. I suppose you could argue that *every* person at CCP is under the iron Goony thrall of Sreegs and acting on his political instructions but, well, um, that, again, is kind of ridiculous.

As for the other assertion, that Stoffer is a GOON SPY making design changes to Mittani's specifications - a few points here.

First - whether you like them or not, the Goons, whom Mittani speaks for, are a significant percentage of Eve's user base. It would be dumb *not* to listen to their input.

Second - it would be impossible to find a live team designer with experience with Eve's nullsec gameplay without being a member of a faction, since, well, that's kind of a requirement. If Stoffer had no nullsec gameplay experience, well, there would be considerably more screaming, wouldn't there.

Third - assuming that Stoffer is making rules changes to favor Goon gameplay (nerfing supercaps so that goony goonswarms aren't obliterated and Mittens can WINTEHGAME) as opposed to making rules changes for the long term health of the game (nerfing supercaps so that the game isn't caught in a rich-get-forever-richer-everyone-else-is-locked-out cascade) is assuming that Stoffer values the victory of Goonfleet in a spaceship game over the long term health of his own career. Because that's pretty much exactly what you're arguing - that he's selling out CCP for Mittens' favor.

To which you might respond:

Let me ask another question. Do you believe that CCP T20 was favouring BoB while he worked on Eve?

Given that he admitted to it, I suppose I have to, don't I? And it was a completely stupid thing to do. Yet in the scale of things, feeding BoB blueprints is far, far less damaging than redesigning the game solely to benefit one particular alliance - literally mortgaging the future health of CCP, a company of several hundred people, so one alliance can make things blow up. If you are correct, Stoffer is the most stupid and corrupt game developer in the history of MMOs.

An assertion like that requires a bit of proof beyond the circumstantial.

If you do, how do you reconcile that with your No True Scotsman approach to game professional integrity?

You can drop the "game" right along with the implication that I am guilty of a logical fallacy because I argue that in the main most game developers, including those at CCP, have a smattering of ethics, self interest, and common sense.

[palmer_eldritch]

How would NCsoft respond if the leader of a large Aion guild - let's say the largest - demanded it divert resources currently allocated to developing Wildstar into improving Aion instead, and threatened a publicity campaign to make them do as he wanted? I'm sure they'd respond in some way, but chances of a significant shift in money and dev time from one activity to the other?

Mitanni's remarkable chutzpah, as we industrialists say, does call for some gentle mockery I think, and I assume that's what Stabs is up to. I do accept Endie's point though that it's usually a mistake to bet against the Mittani. He's a great man. But if he does win then it's even funnier, surely? Even if the future of CCP is ultimately at steak.

[amiable]

Stabs, you have obviously hit a nerve with Lum.  It is your duty now to see how far down this rabbit hole goes....

What are the Goons overall goals?  They have infiltrated CCP, a relatively small company, but having a view from the inside I suspect leaderships goals are much grander.  They want nothing less than total control of all MMORPG's.  They then plan to use the money from RMT and gold farming to support a host of terrorist-related  hacking activities, with the singular goal of bringing down western style capitalism once and for all.

Once that is done, society will be ripe for the taking and they will unmask their true affiliation:  they are sleeper agents for a vast alien conspiracy who plans to breed humanity for food.  Goddamn it Stabs, make sure you tell the others, I think they are on to me...  Oh god.... Someone's at the door....

[Stabs]

Lum, you're conflating things. The supercap nerf, which I and most Eve players support, is not the extent of the changes. Also on the table is removing ABC ores from W-space which most W-space players have said will be a massive pita with regard to keeping themselves supplied with ammo etc. Also on the table is "moving high value missions to nullsec" whatever that means. Also on the table is making ice mining a nullsec monopoly.

Also there's no need to conflate good changes with bad practices. Just because some of the changes are very welcome doesn't mean it's ok to see Mittens bragging about getting everything they want pushed through.

These changes, especially if level 4 missions move out of nullsec, hurt far more players than are in Goonwaffe (5k out of 350k players, about 1%).

Next where did I say anything about manually classifying individual botters? There are many things a person in charge of security could do. Simply focusing on high sec botters rather than nullsec botters is one. Privately warning his old mates before a crackdown is another. The guy most goons buy isk from got banned then got his ban rescinded not long ago. Who authorised that?

I argue that in the main most game developers, including those at CCP, have a smattering of ethics, self interest, and common sense.

I argue that in the main most Goons, including perhaps those at CCP don't have a smattering of ethics towards pubbies which is you, me, most of the staff at CCP and 99% of Eve players.

An assertion like that requires a bit of proof beyond the circumstantial.

Witness statements provided in links on my original blog post. Stoffer said he would always "remember where he came from". Aryth said "you got in and trolled from the inside". Mittani said "When dealing with someone like Stoffer, the power and influence of the CSM is obvious."

[Stabs]

Stabs, you have obviously hit a nerve with Lum.  It is your duty now to see how far down this rabbit hole goes....

What are the Goons overall goals?  They have infiltrated CCP, a relatively small company, but having a view from the inside I suspect leaderships goals are much grander.  They want nothing less than total control of all MMORPG's.  They then plan to use the money from RMT and gold farming to support a host of terrorist-related  hacking activities, with the singular goal of bringing down western style capitalism once and for all.

Once that is done, society will be ripe for the taking and they will unmask their true affiliation:  they are sleeper agents for a vast alien conspiracy who plans to breed humanity for food.  Goddamn it Stabs, make sure you tell the others, I think they are on to me...  Oh god.... Someone's at the door....

You're brilliant at this, want to take over after I've finished beating up Lum?