Horns & Hooves League: Hot Goat on Goat Action!

[Ruvaldt]

Applications are closed
Participating coaches:

The Horns & Hooves league has been created and is now accepting applications.  Look it up on the League Finder and apply with your team soon!  Because of the limitations of the league creator, specifically its need for 12 teams in order to create a second division in all of the tournaments I tried, and lack of an alternative to round robin that would make a single division cup have a reasonable number of matches, I have created the league as an open tournament.  I could have gone with a single division cup style tournament, but that would have required a ten game season, and I just don't think that is a good idea.

Matches, Points and Ranking: I will announce matches at the start of the season in a similar fashion as the D&M league once all sign-ups are made.  The tournament will have six rounds followed by a championship match between the two highest ranked teams.  Rank is determined by point accumulation with losses counting for 0 points, draws for 1 point and wins for 3 points.  If a tie occurs at the end of the season superior position will be determined by casualties inflicted, as befitting the nature of the league.  All matches will be 2:00 in length.  Matches outside of those assigned by the league are not allowed.  I will keep an updated roster of teams in this forum so that people can track their position in the tournament.  Players need to announce the results of their games on the respective forum thread (Horns & Hooves Day 1, 2, etc.), and write-ups are preferred, but not required.

Minotaurs: From those who voted, the votes were 4 - 2 against minotaurs, and that isn't counting my own vote or those who were mostly indifferent but preferred not to have them.  In accordance with those results we will not be allowing minotaurs in this season, but it is something we can revisit at a later time.

Skills: In order to foster variety some unique rules regarding skill choices will be enforced. Individual beastmen must advance their skills with a ratio of mutation to standard beastmen skills of 1:1.  beastmen can choose a normal skill or a mutation skill as their first skill, and then must alternate back and forth between normal skills and mutation skills thereafter.  Normal skills for beastmen are considered General and Strength.  Stat increases, including movement and armor, and doubles from which beastmen choose Agility or Passing skills, will be considered neutral, and do not count toward the number of mutations or standard skills.  Because this rule can not be enforced through the game itself, it will be enforced by the commissioner in the following way: if a team is found violating this rule the team's games will not be validated for as long as beastmen without the proper skill ratio exist on that team's roster.

For example:
Block, Extra Arms, Guard, Pass = OK.  Normal skills alternate between a mutation and Pass can only be taken on a double so it is neutral.
Block, Guard, Mighty Blow = Not OK because there is not an alternation between normal skills and mutations.

These rules are mellower than the original proposal because I want coaches to have the ability to accentuate the versatility of beastmen, which is part of the point of the league.

The league will begin as soon as all coaches have signed up with their new teams and I make a Horns & Hooves Day 1 post.

[lamaros]

I still think the teams will be pretty identical. Claw, block, x, mb. Then one with extra arms, etc...

[avaia]

In.

[Ruvaldt]

Oh, and I'm in.   

I still think the teams will be pretty identical. Claw, block, x, mb. Then one with extra arms, etc...

Personally, I wouldn't take claw except on maybe two or three beastmen, and they wouldn't be first level-ups either; disturbing presence and extra arms seems more useful from the beginning.  That said, we probably will see a lot of similar teams.  I think that's fine too, I mean we all know that we're not going to see much high-flying elven style gameplay here, but the mutation enforcement at least breaks things up a little, and forces people to think outside the box.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

I still think the teams will be pretty identical. Claw, block, x, mb. Then one with extra arms, etc...

Be the variety you want to see in the world.

I still vote for Minotaurs but since I am going to be out of town soon and am already feeling overcommitted to BB leagues, I will take a pass.

Of course if you really want variety you could just say that you can't have more than 2 of a non-doubles skill on the team, until such a point as there are two of every skill. This might result in the first-ever Thick Skull beastman.

[proudft]

I like Chaos, I'm in!  And though the minotaur is one of my favorite of all players, I think all beastmen will be more interesting.

[Gruntle]

4. Beastmen must maintain a ratio of mutation to non-mutation skills of 1:1, starting with a mutation.  Stat increases, including movement and armor, will be considered neutral, and do not count toward the number of mutations or non-mutations.

...

The rules are still under consideration, and people can feel free to make suggestions or complaints.

I want to point out that part of the fun of all beastmen is that they're so malleable -- they can become anything -- but to develop a decent passing or agility tree goat takes doubles. And if we have to start with mutations that means we have to predict where we'll roll doubles a level before, and when we're wrong we'll end up with a lot of half-assed skill-combos out of those who actually get to level 3 (it's possible you meant that the team as a whole has to maintain a 1:1 mutation to non-mutation skill ratio, but then I'll argue that would make deaths potentially twice as senseless if you had to throw away a non-mutated leveled player just because a mutated one killed himself on a GFI)

That being stated, I do like playing chaos vs chaos so I'm probably in regardless.

[Ruvaldt]

That's a really good point, and I agree.  I'll drop the mutation first thing but keep the 1:1 ratio of mutation skills:non-mutation skills.  That should correct the doubles problem, be easily enforceable, and promote varied teams.  Most beastmen will likely level up first with block this way, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing; eventually someone will make a few with wrestle and teach us all a good lesson.

[lamaros]

What if you go block first, then get a double?

Just make Agi skills and statups not count to the 1:1 IMO?

[Ruvaldt]

That was my first inclination, but isn't that watering down the mutation/non-mutation thing down a little too much?  It would make the rule simpler and give more control to the coaches, but I like the idea of mutations playing a larger part in the league than they normally do.

Sign-ups so far:
Avaia
Proudft
Ruvaldt
Gruntle (maybe)

[Strazos]

In. I also vote for using a Mino...I've never had much of a chance to play Chaos, and I'd like to play with the big boy too.

[IainC]

I'm in. I don't feel the need to compensate for anything so no Minotaurs are fine with me.

[lamaros]

Sure.

[Ingmar]

In.

[Strazos]

Any chance we could get a poll on the yay/nay on Minos? I'd really like one if possible, but...meh.

[Ruvaldt]

I see Proudft against and Strazos for.  ICE would be for, but isn't playing.  I'd rather no minotaurs, personally, but I also think they're overrated and tend not to play with them even under normal circumstances.  If more people want them than don't though, I'll happily include them; they can be a lot of fun, and the league will still be interesting as there are definitely different ways to build minos.  Also, they have horns and hooves too so it fits the theme.  I hate to make another thread though so anyone who has an opinion should express it here and I will be happy to count votes.  If you don't say anything I'll assume you're neutral on the subject.

Coach roster so far:
Avaia
Ruvaldt
Proudft
Strazos
IainC
Lamaros
Ingmar
Gruntle (maybe)

[Gruntle]

Sorry, let me be more definite this time -- please enroll me in your goatse tournament.

I'd also tend towards forgoing the minotaur but it's not a deal-breaker for me, so count me as neutral unless there needs to be a tie break in the voting.

[Sky]

I was going to roll a team for this today but my creativity sputtered out halfway through my concept 

[Ruvaldt]

If you're going to play, Sky, sign up!  We're at eight right now, which is pretty good for a gimmick league.

[HaemishM]

I'd like to play, as the snotling league has petered out. I'll make a team and let you know the name. I'd also be in favor of minotaurs, but I like having a big guy on the team.

[Ruvaldt]

Be careful in making those teams.  If we do decide to allow minos you'll possibly want to have some money to buy one at team creation.  I may regret having already made mine.   

[lamaros]

I vote no on Minos.

[Ruvaldt]

That's 2 - 2 on minos.

Nine coaches confirmed.  We may have to create two divisions...

It's going to be CHAOTIC!

[IainC]

Why not just do the same thing as with the D&M league? Just run it all within the feeder league and that way you don't have to worry about having numbers that Cyanide's league interface likes. Also, if the league ends up crawling to a halt then the teams can just be repurposed.

[Ruvaldt]

Sign-ups:
Avaia
Ruvaldt
Proudft
Strazos
IainC
Lamaros
Ingmar
Gruntle
HaemishM

That's nine coaches.  We need a tenth, and then I'll probably close it.

Minotaur vote 2 - 2.

I'll announce final rules in a separate thread once the the coaches are finalized and the league is formally created/the first day begins.

[Llyse]

I'm interested but as you know I've only just moved so my schedule is unstable as hell.

When's this scheduled to start? (I saw the 9 days for matches played)

[Ruvaldt]

We'll start this week; Thursday, I'm imagining.  That should give people more than enough time to see this thread and sign up.  That's just the first day though; as you wrote, you'd have 9 days to complete a match.

[avaia]

No mino vote here.

[IainC]

All goats, no bull.

[lamaros]

Looks like enough votes are in to make my side!

[Ruvaldt]

Yeah, 4-2 against is pretty overwhelming with nine signed up so far.

We still need a tenth!  Sky?  Were you signing up or trying to make a joke?  Llyse?

[Llyse]

I'm in.

Let's do this.

[Strazos]

I am without internet for...I don't know how long. Storm knocked it out Sunday night, and Verizon is not sure when they're going to get to it exactly (*maybe* Thursday, if the tech will do the work in the common room without me being in my apt) I haven't signed up yet, so please don't wait for me. 

[Sky]

Sky?  Were you signing up or trying to make a joke? 

Both!

I'll join up if you need to even the numbers.

[Ruvaldt]

In.

I haven't signed up yet