E3 '11

[Mrbloodworth]

Its clearly a related system. Are you saying its not? It also was not the point of the sentence.

[Malakili]

  If a really twitch game like ABP showed us anything, it's that gamers with reflex skills will dominate, and everyone else will just go home.  So then who do you have left to play with?

Call of Duty is one of the most brutal twitch shooters out there (modern ones at least, Quake Live and Counter Strike are still hanging around) and they sell a bazillion copies a year.

[Rasix]

How many of those copies pay $15 a month in recurring sub fees?  

APB didn't really say anything about twitch, however.  It seemed to say a lot more about incompetence.

edit: At this point, bitching about SWTOR's combat system is akin to bitching about it being a Star Wars game.  It has been down this path since forever.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah APB had more issues than good players stomping the bad ones.

[Hoax]

I was very certain WAR would fail. I'd say I feel about ten times more certain that this Star Wars game will be a huge pile of shit. What could any of you see in this fucking game?

I feel as if the people who are acting like this game might be worth playing bought boxes of WAR, ChampO and Star Trek.

[luckton]

I feel as if the people who are acting like this game might be worth playing bought boxes of WAR, ChampO and Star Trek.

Two out of three...not bad 

[Paelos]

FireFall, Planetside 2, APB, Global Agenda, Vindictus, Possibly Warhammer 40000: Dark Millennium, Battlestar Galactica Online, Cabal Online, Blade & Soul, World of tanks, World of Warplanes, Mortal online, WWIIO, TERA Online. I am sure I have missed a bunch, and yes, they are of varying qualities..

Ok so let's investigate this:

Firefall - space shooter, team-based, so-called "horizontal" progression system that nobody has been able to pull off yet. Solid idea, but I've heard it before. I'm not sure they can implement it.
Planetside 2 - space shooter, a revive of an already failed franchise. Also, SOE, delays, and the chance that this game sees the light of day make it a non-issue for me.
APB - Dead game. From what I understand it had great character creation.
Global Agenda - It's a lobby shooter. Hardly what I would call an MMOG.
Vindictus - while I like the idea, I'm not sure this is even an MMO.
Warhammer - yeah, who knows?
WWIIOL - Good example, I'm not sure why this hasn't caught on more.

[Mrbloodworth]

You are right, none of them are pure RPG MMO fair, that was the point. Ill gladly take a few loading screens and instances over ever having to tab-target 123 again. However the main commonality of them is they are shedding the MMORPG combat trappings, you asked, I gave examples.

They are at least TRYING. Most of that you typed had zero to do with the point of the conversation.

As for 40k:

"The first thing we realised is that if you try to do traditional MMO combat with guns, it doesn’t work. You have like, a tank with a gun? It doesn’t make sense," the developer explained.

"And because the IP is really visceral and powerful, we wanted to amp the action up. So, it’s much more action-based. But we don’t want to talk about that just yet.

"What I will say is that walking through these halls, you can spot an MMO from forty feet away. There’s something about ‘em. They’ve got a million buttons, and you target enemies and attack them, and the whole thing is so easily identifiable.

"But because of our presentation and interface, if you walked by our game on the show floor, you wouldn’t think it was an MMO. At that level, it doesn’t play like an MMO."

THANK GOD. I will gladly try this out, even if its not pure shooter, its at least the right direction.

[Paelos]

So what you are saying is that you are tired of RPGs?

[Mrbloodworth]

So what you are saying is that you are tired of RPGs?

No, I'm tired of the same combat system that I have been playing for over 10 years now. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation.  

RPG has jack to do with the combat system. Was oblivion not an RPG? Is Mass effect not an RPG?

[Paelos]

So what you are saying is that you are tired of RPGs?

No, I'm tired of the same combat system that I have been playing for over 10 years now. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation.  

RPG has jack to do with the combat system.

So, you would be ok with something like Elder Scrolls done MMOG then? Large worlds, swinging swords, more action type thingy?

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes!

 

[Ingmar]

I feel as if the people who are acting like this game might be worth playing bought boxes of WAR, ChampO and Star Trek.

Two out of three...not bad  

Heh, same.

I'm marking this day down on my calendar, as the first time in history MrB wasn't in love with an unreleased MMO.

[Paelos]

Yes!

 

Yeah, me too. Why hasn't anyone done that yet?

[luckton]

Yes!

 

Yeah, me too. Why hasn't anyone done that yet?

In a word, LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG.....

[Paelos]

That's a terrible excuse with today's technology.

[luckton]

That's a terrible excuse with today's technology.

An excuse nonetheless.  I thought Darkfall was action skill based?

[Hawkbit]

Darkfall was my first thought, too.  It's as close to an MMO Oblivion as I've seen. 

[luckton]

Darkfall was my first thought, too.  It's as close to an MMO Oblivion as I've seen. 

I thought so...so why hasn't that taken off like a bat outta hell?

[Paelos]

Ask WayAbvPar, he was the one who gave it a decent shot I think.

[Mrbloodworth]

I would say mortal online is closer.

[SurfD]

So what you are saying is that you are tired of RPGs?

To use a possibly bad Analogy, it seems that what he wants is less Final Fantasy in his MMO (FF games generally being the equivilant of stand there / tab target / push buttons with it's staple combat faire of the static Attack / Magic / Item menu) and more Secret of Mana / Legend of Zelda, where you actually run around, attack stuff, set up combos and the like.

Personally, I am not sure why no one has mentioned Asherons Call in this discussion yet.  For all it's similarities to more modern MMO's, the simple fact that it had pretty much "true" projectile combat and that every single spell you had could be cast while moving still sets it's combat fun factor miles above stuff like WoW.

[Malakili]

I played Darkfall for a bit, the reason it didn't take off is because the grind was pretty brutal, and people don't like being PKed.  I'd say it had little to do with being action oriented.

[Amaron]

I feel as if the people who are acting like this game might be worth playing bought boxes of WAR, ChampO and Star Trek.

I bought WAR played it a month and got like 100~150 hours of truly great play out of it by smashing pubbies in battlegrounds with my guildies.  ChampO was an even better purchase for me.  I got maybe only 100 hours out of ChampO but they were truly fantastic.   Playing around with the powers and that skill system was some truly engaging shit.  I also bought DCU and got great value out of that as well.

I did not buy Star Trek.

By approaching these games with single player game standards I'd say I've made out quite well.    I like WoW style combat and systems and I love Star Wars.   If you think this game isn't worth getting hyped over and that I'll somehow be let down and not get an amazing experience you'd be wrong.  If it actually turns into an MMO somewhere along the way that would be somewhat amazing.

Was oblivion not an RPG? Is Mass effect not an RPG?

No.  We don't go around calling Brutal Legend an RTS.

Yeah, me too. Why hasn't anyone done that yet?

Depends on which part you mean?   DCU tried action combat.

[Nonentity]

You guys, Ghost Recon Online is pretty fun. If they don't fuck it up too badly with microtransaction stuff, I will be seriously interested in this game.

[HaemishM]

Personally, I am not sure why no one has mentioned Asherons Call in this discussion yet.  

Because we didn't want to risk having Hyu jizz all over us about this game again and it sucked and blew?

[sinij]

I thought Darkfall was action skill based?

You have to aim spells, melee swings and archery. If you don't hit, then you don't do damage. Other than that its fairly traditional UO-esq mmorpg.

I played Darkfall for a bit, the reason it didn't take off is because the grind was pretty brutal, and people don't like being PKed.  I'd say it had little to do with being action oriented.

Not quite. The grind was/is Korean-strength and as tedious, and people couldn't help but getting PKed until they are done with the grind. Grind was ultimate cause, not PKing.

[Mrbloodworth]

Was oblivion not an RPG? Is Mass effect not an RPG?

No.  We don't go around calling Brutal Legend an RTS.

 

[Amaron]

I guess you didn't play it then?  Can't really blame you for that.  My point was those are action games with rpg elements.   I liked them both but I don't see any reason to call them RPG's.   I mean damn near everything is getting RPG elements these days.

[Paelos]

As well they should. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I guess you didn't play it then?  Can't really blame you for that.  My point was those are action games with rpg elements.   I liked them both but I don't see any reason to call them RPG's.   I mean damn near everything is getting RPG elements these days.

I did, they were clearly RPG's. The combat system has nothing to do with it.

[Sky]

However the main commonality of them is they are shedding the MMORPG combat trappings

[Rasix]

I guess you didn't play it then?  Can't really blame you for that.  My point was those are action games with rpg elements.   

I disagree with what you said.

[Amaron]

I did, they were clearly RPG's. The combat system has nothing to do with it.

Oblivion I can give you maybe.  I think the extreme consolish player skill based combat made it clearly an action rpg but maybe you think of action rpg's as rpg's.    Mass Effect though is a no way.  It removed everything important in the meaning of RPG.   That's why the second one was improved by making it further an action game.

[luckton]

I did, they were clearly RPG's. The combat system has nothing to do with it.

I thought the combat system was what we were talking about?