The Career Deal

[jpark]

While I have been very fortunate in my career, the last 2 years have been frustrating.  Quite.  Things are looking up slowly, but I offer some observations in the spirit of venting:

I am not hiring my replacement.

Yup, the apex of your success has an unexpected boomerang effect:  you’re going to make some interviewers uncomfortable.  Don’t confuse this for bad interviewing skills – you display that earlier in your career if it is an issue.

Diverse experience?  Fuck you.

Do I see a major skill on you resume that is NOT in the job description?  That my boy means you’re a flight risk.  You can’t tell me you're serious about this job and are willing to stop using your skills in area “X”.  We want somebody narrower.

You’re not serious about a pay cut.

If you made big bucks in your last job – it sets an expectation that regardless what you say, companies make assumptions on your acceptable salary and will close doors to lower level positions of interest to you.

Xenophobia – not in my industry

Moving across industries can be extremely challenging.  If you have well defined functional roles like accountant or IT support you're portable across industries.  But if you did sales in automotive, folks don’t believe your can sell in a different industry – or at least they see it as a major risk (I am not a sales guy - but that's an example).

If you don't mind, I am going to Pigeon Hole you

Try to fit into discrete professional categories folks can relate to.  If you overlap into other areas they get annoyed.  Be one or the other – but don’t mix them up.  Also, your passions are defined by your last job, not your career.

[schild]

I don't know what the FUCK you just said, Little Kid, but you're special man, you reached out, and you touch a brother's heart.

[MrHat]

While I have been very fortunate in my career, the last 2 years have been frustrating.  Quite.  Things are looking up slowly, but I offer some observations in the spirit of venting:

I am not hiring my replacement.

Yup, the apex of your success has an unexpected boomerang effect:  you’re going to make some interviewers uncomfortable.  Don’t confuse this for bad interviewing skills – you display that earlier in your career if it is an issue.

Diverse experience?  Fuck you.

Do I see a major skill on you resume that is NOT in the job description?  That my boy means you’re a flight risk.  You can’t tell me you're serious about this job and are willing to stop using your skills in area “X”.  We want somebody narrower.

You’re not serious about a pay cut.

If you made big bucks in your last job – it sets an expectation that regardless what you say, companies make assumptions on your acceptable salary and will close doors to lower level positions of interest to you.

Xenophobia – not in my industry

Moving across industries can be extremely challenging.  If you have well defined functional roles like accountant or IT support you're portable across industries.  But if you did sales in automotive, folks don’t believe your can sell in a different industry – or at least they see it as a major risk (I am not a sales guy - but that's an example).

If you don't mind, I am going to Pigeon Hole you

Try to fit into discrete professional categories folks can relate to.  If you overlap into other areas they get annoyed.  Be one or the other – but don’t mix them up.  Also, your passions are defined by your last job, not your career.

Truer words have not been spoken.

In my giant job hunt of last year, I encountered interviewers who had/did all these things.  It's quite frustrating, but I can understand where they are coming from.  If you want a job selling cars, put the relevant experience on your resume, and write a cover letter stating what kind of job you are looking for (and make it match the job you are applying for).

[Cheddar]

This frightens and confuses me!  I am separating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector?  Any tips or advice would be appreciated!


edit - sp3lling pwns m3

[stray]

This frightens and confuses me!

Same here. I've worked in multimedia/design since I was 17, but I'm ready for a complete change (Note to fellow artists: I'd advise against it. It's nothing more than a mere service industry. It will make you hate that which you love. You're better off finding something that you can live with hating....I suspect the same could be true for aspiring game designers as well). For now, I have a good job offering through family, and will probably take it. But other than that, I know little about anything else. The bulk of my experience applies to one field, and if I leave it, I'm not sure what to do on my own...or how to impress an interviewer.

[angry.bob]

How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector?  Any tips or advice would be appreciated!

Well, it depends on who you ask. If you ask people who have no idea they'll say that the industry is healthy, recovering, and "reconfiguring" itself or some shit. If you ask people like me who've been working in it for a while, who are lucky enough to still have a job, and are looking to find a better/different one in the industry, my advice would be to either find a different way to make a living or invent a time machine and have your fetus removed from your mother and transplanted to some woman in a corrupt, shitridden fourth world fuckhole like India. Reading Indian IT boards and the attitudes they put forth will make you burn with hate.

[eldaec]

I am seperating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector? 

Practically every large company in every sector of every industry has a shortage of good people in practically every role.

IT is particularly strong example of this. There is no shortage of people claiming to be IT professionals but whose only ability is to produce copious amounts of email. There is an acute shortage of people who both have actual IT skills, and the ability to actually get shit done.

The problem is that you only get two sheets of A4 and a short chat to differentiate yourself from people who aren't so hot.
 

I appreciate that this is not especially helpful information.

[Cheddar]

How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector?  Any tips or advice would be appreciated!

 Reading Indian IT boards and the attitudes they put forth will make you burn with hate.

The support for IT from India cannot be worse then here in Turkey.  Because of international laws and such we are forced to buy off the economy.  This means ++ $, missing equipment (Everytime I have ordered equipment there is ALWAYS something missing, accidently left in the office, fallen off the truck, ect), and the fun fun joy joy of attempting to understand someone who speaks english well enough but knows nothing about IT (anyone skilled in IT moves to Germany and elsewhere).  On average if we have an issue with something it takes around 6 months to get done correctly along with the ulcer inducing stress.  Do not get me started about my co-workers or Turkish nationals I also have to deal with daily... I digress before my pathetic whining peaks to new levels.

[Rodent]

The support for IT from India cannot be worse then here in Turkey.  Because of international laws and such we are forced to buy off the economy.  This means ++ $, missing equipment (Everytime I have ordered equipment there is ALWAYS something missing, accidently left in the office, fallen off the truck, ect), and the fun fun joy joy of attempting to understand someone who speaks english well enough but knows nothing about IT (anyone skilled in IT moves to Germany and elsewhere).  On average if we have an issue with something it takes around 6 months to get done correctly along with the ulcer inducing stress.  Do not get me started about my co-workers or Turkish nationals I also have to deal with daily... I digress before my pathetic whining peaks to new levels.

I will give you the same advice as I give everyone who is in/going to Turkey. Stay at the beach, all the fucking time. And drink, drink lots.

It's the key to making the country tollerable.

[Cheddar]

I will give you the same advice as I give everyone who is in/going to Turkey. Stay at the beach, all the fucking time. And drink, drink lots.

It's the key to making the country tollerable.

Oh I love Turkey, its the fucks I have to deal with at work that kill me.  Women here are hot, easy, and dumb.  3 HIT COMBO! 

[SirBruce]

I had a chance to go to Turkey to help set up an Internet connection for some company back in 1992.  Got my passport and everything, but then the deal fell through, so I missed my chance.

Bruce

[stray]

So what

[Roac]

I had a chance to go to Turkey to help set up an Internet connection for some company back in 1992.  Got my passport and everything, but then the deal fell through, so I missed my chance.

And one time, at band camp, ...

[Cheddar]

OK back to the ledger at hand... any RELEVENT advice for aspiring young IT professionals?  Any ex-military make the transfer to civilian life in one piece?  Constructive thoughts are most welcome. 

[HaemishM]

This frightens and confuses me!  I am separating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector? 

Have you seen a mine field once all the mines have gone off?

Yeah, that's about what the IT sector looks like in most places.

[Cheddar]

This frightens and confuses me!  I am separating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector? 

Have you seen a mine field once all the mines have gone off?

Yeah, that's about what the IT sector looks like in most places.

So just like the military, but less saluting.  GOOD TIMES!

[HaemishM]

No saluting, but lots of ass-kissing, shell-shocked facial expressions and craters where people used to sit.

[Roac]

OK back to the ledger at hand... any RELEVENT advice for aspiring young IT professionals?  Any ex-military make the transfer to civilian life in one piece?  Constructive thoughts are most welcome. 

As always, government (fed, state, local) is a natural fit for ex-military guys, even for IT.  Government likes government, and as an added bonus, ex-military peeps ignorant about what their market value is and used to being paid with peanuts.  Private side, there's more money but the field is a bit tighter.  Experience is king here; you'll want a BS or equivalent degree.  It's not required, but it helps to supplant experience and will impress suits. 

The type of IT is also relevant.  There are fewer programmer jobs, but there are also fewer programmers; they normally get paid higher, but it's harder to get a job.  Support jobs (server/pc/lan/wan) are much more abundant, but also too frequently filled with incompetants.  Normally easier to find a job, but harder to find a GOOD job.  Likely, you'll take the former and start searching for the latter.

[jpark]

This frightens and confuses me!  I am separating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector?  Any tips or advice would be appreciated!

The transition from public sector to private sector is not easy - at least in my experience moving from basic research into investments (I know field changes etc.).  In the end it is catassing where it counts - knock on doors until your blue in the face.  Persistence does pay-off.  Having an inside contact helps in the prospective firm you seek to contact.

Turn your perceived "weakness" into an asset too:  contact (cold call) some folks and see if you can get an "informational interview" or "career advice".  Offer to meet them for coffee.  Be mindful of their time.  Get advice - stroke their ego.  Most importantly at the end of each of these meetings be sure to get a recommendation on who else you can speak to.  Once you start this process it is almost self-sustaining.  Be sure to send letters of thank you after the fact (not emails).  Where appropriate - try and keep your "contacts" fresh on some of your latest news (whatever that may be).  Try and keep the connection "alive" - most often this will fail - but those that remain interested can be career contacts for a long time.

Treat gate keepers with respect and schmooze when possible.  Depending upon how your built - you might put together some sort of "proposal" and send a hard copy in advance of a call.  When you call your target - and get his get keeper - you indicate you are following up on some analytics that was sent to the person in question (or whatever suits your style).  This is not like dating - if you leave a message - don't expect a call back - you'll have to be persistent calling back.  Use the gatekeeper to find out the best time to call. 

I spent a week putting together some sort of "proposal" and  cover letter.  I would courier the document to the person so I had a pretty good idea when this document when land on his desk to time my call.  If you have time, you might write an article for a trade magazine etc. - which can be a form of self promotion.  It can also be sent as FYI in advance of a meeting.

Before meeting with anyone be sure to review the company in detail / research.  Have some ideas or questions.  Make an impression if you can - and often that can be achieved by showing one quality if genuine enough:  enthusiasm.

To state the obvious you might seek out firms that are in some way involved in selling to the military so your familiarity with this target market is of some value (however remote).

I found these tactics helped me enormoulsy in changing fields and moving from public to private sector at the same time.

[ClydeJr]

Most of the old traditional IT jobs like coding and support in big corporations are moving overseas. At least in this big oil company, being in IT means less on how well you can code and more on how well you can interface between the business types in the company and the IT people overseas. You have to be able to speak both business-speak and IT-speak and be able to translate between the two.

[DarkDryad]

This frightens and confuses me!  I am separating from the military shortly and it is a pretty scary thing beginning the job hunt after 6 years.  How is the IT industry doing in the civilian sector?  Any tips or advice would be appreciated!


edit - sp3lling pwns m3

Do yourself a favor and start looking for positions on a base close to home. They are hiring like mad and as ex military you get preference.

[DarkDryad]

OK back to the ledger at hand... any RELEVENT advice for aspiring young IT professionals?  Any ex-military make the transfer to civilian life in one piece?  Constructive thoughts are most welcome. 

I did but I work for the airforce as a contractor and so wish I had gone the 5 star program instead. Hell Id be about ready to retire now :( Yes military time counts toward retirement when you work for uncle sugar.

[Llava]

I don't know what the FUCK you just said, Little Kid, but you're special man, you reached out, and you touch a brother's heart.

Give me the map, Scott.  GIVE ME THE MAP, SCOTT!

I tried to just let that hang in the air, uncompleted.  I just couldn't.

[daveNYC]

I've got a friend ad SAIC in the DC area.  She says that they're hiring in that area, couldn't tell you about other SAIC divisions though.

If you like being yelled at, there's usually some openings in the IT departments of the financial companies.  The downside is that they like to fire people every five years or so.

[Cheddar]

I've got a friend ad SAIC in the DC area.  She says that they're hiring in that area, couldn't tell you about other SAIC divisions though.

If you like being yelled at, there's usually some openings in the IT departments of the financial companies.  The downside is that they like to fire people every five years or so.

I noticed the Navy and Army and bolstering their IT departments with GS positions; it is tempting to go that route.  I am shooting to get a job in the Hampton Roads area actually; though working in DC would be nice for my future wife since she has family there.  Oh the decisions!