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Author Topic: CoH: Main Areas for future expansion  (Read 8744 times)
jpark
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on: February 06, 2005, 07:43:18 AM

To me these are:

1.  Economy
2.  Non combat activity / Skills (some content coming up)
3.  Better reasons to group / join an SG
4.  PvP (being addressed)
5.  More mission variety
6.  More zone variety

For me the economy is the most important.  Some feel the Hero genre is not amenable to this, but I think with a little imagination it can work.  I am not referring to item drops a character displays on his person, the exchange of goods can involve other Hero game elements:

Economy

1.  Unique aura effects (dropped like an enhancement and traded for use)
2.  Unique power appearances (drop gives your power a different color or graphic)
3.  Danger room contruction (each hero or SG builds one by getting drops which may give access to new power pools or give an experience bonus for leveling upon successful performance in the room each time you level)
4.  Pets (disappear upon death)
5.  Unique contacts (you trade "good word" to get a new contact access)
6.  Temporary powers from mission completion (obtained from contact not a vendor)

That's just one topic from the list I have above.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Murgos
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Reply #1 on: February 06, 2005, 07:59:05 AM

I would like a more 'hand-crafted' feel to the the missions.

I know that that means much more art resources need to be dedicated to one shot uses and much more time and effort put into telling a story.  Very expensive, I know but I think it would pay off in spades.

Look at a comic book, they don't all just have the hero fighting wave after wave of baddies, try and incorporate some of that other stuff in the game, you know, the things that make a 2-dimensional concept into a character that people want to see more of.

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Rodent
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Reply #2 on: February 06, 2005, 08:17:35 AM

Quote from: jpark
3.  Better reasons to group / join an SG


I'd say one more reason to join an SG will be the SG HQ's and the potential HQ raids.

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Miscreant
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Reply #3 on: February 06, 2005, 02:18:08 PM

On the topic of mission variety, which should Cryptic improve first in missions: gameplay or storytelling? Would cut-scenes inside mission maps be interesting?  The boss reveals more of his evil plans and advances the story. Or would ambush missions, escort an NPC through the map missions,  smarter villain and NPC ai, that sort of thing be best?  Or something else entirely?

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Reply #4 on: February 06, 2005, 04:47:13 PM

Quote from: Miscreant
On the topic of mission variety, which should Cryptic improve first in missions: gameplay or storytelling? Would cut-scenes inside mission maps be interesting?  The boss reveals more of his evil plans and advances the story. Or would ambush missions, escort an NPC through the map missions,  smarter villain and NPC ai, that sort of thing be best?  Or something else entirely?

Cut scenes would be interesting the first time only. After that everyone would hit escape to by-pass it. Not sure if it would make sense to dedicated time to it. Escort missions can be entertaining as well as ambushes.

"smarter" AI is probably something that is always ongoing in development, I would hope.
jpark
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Reply #5 on: February 07, 2005, 11:48:26 AM

On the topic of mission variety, which should Cryptic improve first in missions: gameplay or storytelling? Would cut-scenes inside mission maps be interesting?  The boss reveals more of his evil plans and advances the story. Or would ambush missions, escort an NPC through the map missions,  smarter villain and NPC ai, that sort of thing be best?  Or something else entirely?

I love the ambushes.  They make the game feel very active.  It brings that element of fear to the game that you normally associate with pvp games - always be vigilant.  Currently, there are not enough of them and they could be more varied.

On this topic what about automobile inspired missions?  Drive by shootings - destroy the car before it reaches its target.  Or automobile damage or knockbacks?  When you fight in the street passing cars can knock you back if they collide with you.  Or doing an escort mission until the target reaches his car safely and drives away.

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"  HaemishM.
CmdrSlack
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Reply #6 on: February 07, 2005, 12:24:05 PM

Quote from: Miscreant
On the topic of mission variety, which should Cryptic improve first in missions: gameplay or storytelling? Would cut-scenes inside mission maps be interesting?  The boss reveals more of his evil plans and advances the story. Or would ambush missions, escort an NPC through the map missions,  smarter villain and NPC ai, that sort of thing be best?  Or something else entirely?
Cut scenes would be interesting the first time only. After that everyone would hit escape to by-pass it. Not sure if it would make sense to dedicated time to it. Escort missions can be entertaining as well as ambushes.

"smarter" AI is probably something that is always ongoing in development, I would hope.

I've always thought that the CoH mob AI was better than just about any other game I've played.  It would be interesting to see escort missions where the NPCs would selectively attack the guy you're leading about or you, depending on what's going on.

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MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #7 on: February 07, 2005, 02:26:35 PM

First post from a longtime lurker, but ...

I hope they don't introduce an "economy" into CoH.  I've been enjoying the complete lack of items  in the game, for many reasons.  It seems as though anytime items/loot are added, along come the lootwhore mentality, group arguments regarding who should get an item, camping for items, MUDflation, uber epic drops that only a sparse few catasses can get, and so forth.  Developers seem utterly incapable of having item systems that do not eventually take on those traits.

Plus, I always hated that I had no real control over how I looked in EQ, DAoC, etc.  I was at the mercy of my class's armor and item needs melded with the risk-vs-reward random number generator.  My options were (1) look how I want and get plastered in combat, or (2) obey the "you're in our world now" Vision of how my character should look.  Meh.

The only economy I would enjoy is one where items are completely optional.  As in, I can get whatever effect from an item in other ways that are not dropped from mobs.  That, however, would be rather not fun for those who want an economy, and would seem rather pointless considering the development effort to add such a system in the first place.
jpark
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Reply #8 on: February 07, 2005, 09:42:47 PM

First post from a longtime lurker, but ...

I hope they don't introduce an "economy" into CoH.  I've been enjoying the complete lack of items  in the game, for many reasons.  It seems as though anytime items/loot are added, along come the lootwhore mentality, group arguments regarding who should get an item, camping for items, MUDflation, uber epic drops that only a sparse few catasses can get, and so forth.  Developers seem utterly incapable of having item systems that do not eventually take on those traits.

Point taken.  There are many things to add - so may as well do those that have broader appeal.

I was thinking of a new mission type:  based on the film Assault on Precinct 13 (Hmm... seems Heamish decided Catwoman was more interesting to review).  It would be cool to have an instance or event in the city where the heroes defended a building from waves of villians.  Seems simple enough - add a few plot elements - nice mission type.


« Last Edit: February 07, 2005, 10:07:09 PM by jpark »

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Lanei
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Reply #9 on: February 08, 2005, 12:16:15 AM

I was thinking of a new mission type:  based on the film Assault on Precinct 13 (Hmm... seems Heamish decided Catwoman was more interesting to review).  It would be cool to have an instance or event in the city where the heroes defended a building from waves of villians.  Seems simple enough - add a few plot elements - nice mission type.

Have you played the respec mission? 
Its not a building, its an object in the center of a room, but otherwise its basically "defend this thing from waves of attackers trying to kill it." 
jpark
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Reply #10 on: February 08, 2005, 06:38:34 AM

I was thinking of a new mission type:  based on the film Assault on Precinct 13 (Hmm... seems Heamish decided Catwoman was more interesting to review).  It would be cool to have an instance or event in the city where the heroes defended a building from waves of villians.  Seems simple enough - add a few plot elements - nice mission type.

Have you played the respec mission? 
Its not a building, its an object in the center of a room, but otherwise its basically "defend this thing from waves of attackers trying to kill it." 

Yes I did - much fun.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
HaemishM
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Reply #11 on: February 08, 2005, 09:26:10 AM

I'll also have to say that I do not want any item economy introduced into COH. That drives the haves/have nots arguments, and if you start to add PVP into the mix, items go from "would be cool" to "must have." Not to mention the absolutely disgusting lewtwhorez who form around doing nothing but getting themselves equipped as well as possible.

Now adding items in that are mostly cosmetic would be nice. I'd love it if my scrapper could get a bo staff. But the minute you add a +1, it becomes a problem.

jpark
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Reply #12 on: February 08, 2005, 11:04:13 AM

I'll also have to say that I do not want any item economy introduced into COH. That drives the haves/have nots arguments, and if you start to add PVP into the mix, items go from "would be cool" to "must have." Not to mention the absolutely disgusting lewtwhorez who form around doing nothing but getting themselves equipped as well as possible.

Now adding items in that are mostly cosmetic would be nice. I'd love it if my scrapper could get a bo staff. But the minute you add a +1, it becomes a problem.

So that could be the compromise - an economy dealing with tradable costume options (auras, gear etc.).

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
HaemishM
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Reply #13 on: February 08, 2005, 11:43:14 AM

Sure. It would certainly make a lot more sense than seeing "WTS Web-shooters +6" in every goddamn zone. You'd still get that, but it would be more for barbie-doll reasons than efficacy. Make it a WoW-style auction house instead of zone-wide chat and it's even better. And given how obessive about collecting a lot of comic fans are, it'd probably get a lot of use.

Mesozoic
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Reply #14 on: February 08, 2005, 11:57:34 AM

No economy, thanks.  To quote myself from the CoH thread on the PC and Console Games Forum:

Quote
I'm not sure if anyone's noticed, but realistic economies are not exactly the forte of CoH's source material.  Heroes are either so shit-rich that they get whatever they want (Iron Man, Batman, etc.), technically dirt poor in ways that don't matter to their crimefighting (Spider-man, Superman) or just financially androgenous. 

I don't want a superhero game where mutants in tights hawk plasma pistols on street corners for influence.


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jpark
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Reply #15 on: February 08, 2005, 12:00:56 PM

No economy, thanks.  To quote myself from the CoH thread on the PC and Console Games Forum:


But I am not going to quote some possibilities I listed for an economy in CoH under that post :P

I am flexible:  from the list at the start of this thread or from something you have identified, what do you think should be the next high priority for expansion (after CoV)?


"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Righ
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Reply #16 on: February 08, 2005, 12:21:40 PM

I am flexible:  from the list at the start of this thread or from something you have identified, what do you think should be the next high priority for expansion (after CoV)?

More choices and options for looks in character creation. This was CoH's best feature, and they need to keep it coming. They need quirky eyebrows and some costume designs based around flags, animals and shit. As it stands, character creation only has a couple of weeks of life and people actually start playing the game. Extend it and they'll need fewer servers.

Seriously, they need something other than combat and fed-ex. It's hard to argue against the assertion that combat is CoH's strong point. Once you pass character creation, it's about all there is. It's good, but it becomes repetitious quickly. Houses, trades skills, trophies... all complete and utter shite. But they break up a gaming session in other very combat oriented MMOGs.

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shiznitz
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Reply #17 on: February 08, 2005, 12:35:28 PM

CoH even eliminates the "fedex" part with the cellphone option. Goddamn I wish EQ2 had that. Crossing 3 zones to talk to an NPC and then having to go back to continue the quest is just STOOOPID!

I have never played WoW.
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #18 on: February 08, 2005, 12:44:30 PM

But I am not going to quote some possibilities I listed for an economy in CoH under that post :P

I am flexible:  from the list at the start of this thread or from something you have identified, what do you think should be the next high priority for expansion (after CoV)?

From your list, I think 2. and 5. are my biggies.

I think an interesting way to introduce some non-combat activities would be creating a new AT:  the Gadgeteer (shamelessly ripped off from the old Champions PnP game).  This would be a hero whose powers all came from devices that he made, which would effectvely make him a craftsman.  Alternatively, you could just have any hero with the Technology origin be able to craft his own enhancements or obtain powers from his power sets by such crafting.  The danger is I can't see how to introduce this without running the risks of introducing an item economy.  I'm a prisoner of my own item-system hatred on this one.

As to more mission variety, I noticed a good idea on the official CoH controller forum:  Missions where combat does not dictate success or failure.  Escort missions, either protecting a moving mob or one that is hiding, are good examples of this.  I had two thoughts on this, both of which could be fulfilled in multiple ways under the current CoH system.  First, a "tag" mission:  you are given a device (medical scanner, brain transmogrifier, whatever)  and must somehow sneak up on one or more mobs, without harming them, to use the device.  Second, a "demolition" mission: you must plant bombs or listening devices while evading a search team of villains.  If this search team found you, no combat would ensue ... the mission would simply fail.




Glazius
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Reply #19 on: February 08, 2005, 02:03:11 PM

As to more mission variety, I noticed a good idea on the official CoH controller forum:  Missions where combat does not dictate success or failure.  Escort missions, either protecting a moving mob or one that is hiding, are good examples of this.  I had two thoughts on this, both of which could be fulfilled in multiple ways under the current CoH system.  First, a "tag" mission:  you are given a device (medical scanner, brain transmogrifier, whatever)  and must somehow sneak up on one or more mobs, without harming them, to use the device.  Second, a "demolition" mission: you must plant bombs or listening devices while evading a search team of villains.  If this search team found you, no combat would ensue ... the mission would simply fail.
It's possible to make a character that can't stealth.

It's not possible to make a character that can't do damage or click glowies.

They need to revamp the mission system a bit - they're doing it now at least with an eye toward graphical indication of a mission you'd need a team for. It'd be nice to have a separate contact, say, for "protect" missions, and one for "stealth" missions.

Stealth missions are also a little too easily griefable if you do them as part of a team. Protect missions at least you have some time to kick, bail, and reset before the griefer blows everything up, but when one wrong move = failure? Lordy.

If they could find a way to do non-griefable stealth missions I'd want some task forces to have split bits - where the bulk of the team distracts the forces at the Nemesis front company while one or two stealth in the back door and plow through the file cabinets.

--GF
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #20 on: February 08, 2005, 02:18:43 PM

It's possible to make a character that can't stealth.

Yes.  But there are other options.  Group Invisibility from a teammate and using control powers (e.g. mesmerize) come to mind.  By "stealth" I simply meant "a non-aggro way of approaching a mob", of which there are several in the existing game.

It's not possible to make a character that can't do damage ...

I beg to differ ... played a Mind/* controller yet?

Seriously, though, there are plenty of character combinations that do such little damage as to be practically unsoloable. Those types of characters appeal to many (me included), as evidenced by how many of them are out there.  Since those character combinations already do such missions by getting teams together, what I'm proposing isn't a radical departure.  Not perfect, mind you, just consistent with the existant system.

If they could find a way to do non-griefable stealth missions I'd want some task forces to have split bits - where the bulk of the team distracts the forces at the Nemesis front company while one or two stealth in the back door and plow through the file cabinets.

Damn, that's a pretty good idea.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #21 on: February 08, 2005, 02:38:15 PM


As to more mission variety, I noticed a good idea on the official CoH controller forum:  Missions where combat does not dictate success or failure.  Escort missions, either protecting a moving mob or one that is hiding, are good examples of this.  I had two thoughts on this, both of which could be fulfilled in multiple ways under the current CoH system.  First, a "tag" mission:  you are given a device (medical scanner, brain transmogrifier, whatever)  and must somehow sneak up on one or more mobs, without harming them, to use the device.  Second, a "demolition" mission: you must plant bombs or listening devices while evading a search team of villains.  If this search team found you, no combat would ensue ... the mission would simply fail.

They have some basic types of these missions already, they just need to expand on it.  Like the Freakshow disguise mission, or investogative missions where you're gathering clues (clicking glowies) and can elect no to fight at all.  Plus the cooperative missions like simulatenous bomb disarming, or break your buddy out of prison misson if they get KO's on a map (has this ever happened to anyone?)

Just need to expand them a bit.  Personally, I'd like to see missions with multiple objective where you don't have to complete them all, but if you do you get a higher reward.  As it is now, if you have 3 objective, kill boss, rescue 5 scientists, and disable 4 magic portals, you have to do them all.

As to an economy, they can have one, so long as it has zero-to minimal affect on combat.  At worst, the ability to create AT specific temp powers you can sell/give to other characters would be neat.  But they would have to be limited in how many you can have, use, and duration, sort of like different inspirations.  The way CoH handles everything with percentages makes it nice so a lvl 50 character give a temp power to a lvl 1 doesn't make him uber.  Or, the "economy" could strictly revolve around the SG HQ's with tons of props and decorations and trophies.  No impact on gameplay but as said, comic's fans like to collect anyway...

Xilren

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ClydeJr
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Reply #22 on: February 08, 2005, 03:18:16 PM

I'd like to see them add more inspirations that act as short lived temporary powers. Maybe an inspiration that adds a stun effect to every power for one minute. An inspiration that boosts range for a minute. An inspiration that creates a temp power that lets you create a weak fire ring/burn patch combo. Lots of possibilities.

break your buddy out of prison misson if they get KO's on a map (has this ever happened to anyone?)

We had this happen on a Orenbega mission but we were fighting Malta. We ended up getting completely wiped and all of us actually died about 3-4 times trying to get out of jail. But it was actually fun trying to get out of jail so we really didn't care.
AOFanboi
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Reply #23 on: February 09, 2005, 12:53:47 AM

graphical indication of a mission you'd need a team for.
Yes, but it's easy to miss: The mission description/conversation when you get the troll cave mission where you end up having to disarm two bombs simultaneously does have "Try to bring a friend" at the end in a slightly different color, but it's easy to accept the mission before reading all the way to the end.

They need to add some way to abandon a mission - or to allow more than three active missions.

Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
Glazius
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Reply #24 on: February 09, 2005, 05:37:32 AM

graphical indication of a mission you'd need a team for.
Yes, but it's easy to miss: The mission description/conversation when you get the troll cave mission where you end up having to disarm two bombs simultaneously does have "Try to bring a friend" at the end in a slightly different color, but it's easy to accept the mission before reading all the way to the end.

They need to add some way to abandon a mission - or to allow more than three active missions.
No, I mean like an actual icon by the mission to let you know you need a team.

This is in the works, as is mission abandonment.

--GF
eldaec
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Reply #25 on: February 09, 2005, 05:59:31 AM

Currently the 'bring a friend message' sometimes doesn't come till after you accept a mission.

And you already get a graphical representation of needing a group after you accept a mission, it's represented by the actual model of an AV appearing inside the mission.

But as mentioned above they are putting an icon on missions in the selection text, which is probably fair enough.

They are also going so far as to guarantee no bosses if you enter a mission solo while set on minimum difficulty, personally I thought that was going too far, even with the boss difficulty increases. But I'm in a minority of COH players on that.

On the subject of economy, I'm not convinced there is any need for an economy specifically, economy is really just another alternate advancement track; and any other alternate track could be just as interesting. Personally I'm looking forward to the non-combat skill system more than worry about lack of an economy. The current design seems to have you basically pick a non-combat class and develop your non-combat skill in parallel with your combat powers.

On PvP I remain unconvinced that CoV is such a great idea, arenas are fine, though I expect they'd fall into disuse just as EQs arenas did if CoH didn't have CoV coming. I'm just not convinced that CoH is geared for PvP, and I'm not convinced that CoH has a playerbase that really wants PvP (though it may think it wants PvP at the moment).

Quote from: Righ
They need quirky eyebrows and some costume designs based around flags, animals and shit.

I'm not convinced we really need costume designs based around shit. Mr Hanky-man isn't something I want to see.




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eldaec
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Reply #26 on: February 09, 2005, 06:03:09 AM

As to more mission variety, I noticed a good idea on the official CoH controller forum:  Missions where combat does not dictate success or failure.  Escort missions, either protecting a moving mob or one that is hiding, are good examples of this.  I had two thoughts on this, both of which could be fulfilled in multiple ways under the current CoH system.  First, a "tag" mission:  you are given a device (medical scanner, brain transmogrifier, whatever)  and must somehow sneak up on one or more mobs, without harming them, to use the device.  Second, a "demolition" mission: you must plant bombs or listening devices while evading a search team of villains.  If this search team found you, no combat would ensue ... the mission would simply fail.

All good ideas - but they'd only work if the xp system gave most of the xp for completing the mission, as opposed to the current system where most of teh xp is given for the kills within a mission.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Alkiera
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Reply #27 on: February 09, 2005, 06:06:56 AM

Quote from: Righ
They need quirky eyebrows and some costume designs based around flags, animals and shit.

I'm not convinced we really need costume designs based around shit. Mr Hanky-man isn't something I want to see.

See, that was my first thought too.  Maybe I've gotten to taking people here too literally tho.

I don't play anymore, so I can't summon up images of stone/* tankers from before the change to their toggle powers.  Some of them did in fat rather resemble, ah, Mr. Hanky.

Alkiera

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Big Gulp
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Reply #28 on: February 09, 2005, 08:29:21 AM

Now adding items in that are mostly cosmetic would be nice. I'd love it if my scrapper could get a bo staff. But the minute you add a +1, it becomes a problem.

Or, if we can acquire items, keep them around only in the SG base, so as not to inspire public envy.  Yeah, I've been harping on tricking out the superbase a lot, but dammit, this something I feel strongly about.  Give us lvl 50 folks something to do while waiting for base incursions to fight back and give us a reason for spending all our time in the Fortress of Privacy instead of patrolling the dark streets.
Llava
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Reply #29 on: February 09, 2005, 09:56:29 AM

give us a reason for spending all our time in the Fortress of Privacy

That's a big one, there.  You ought to want to spend most of your time in your house, but games that I've played with housing usually just treat the house as a hub.  Safe place to craft, so crafters hang out in their homes a lot, but if you want to get anything else done you have to go out and about.  I'm not saying that you shouldn't have to go out and about to beat up badguys, but it would be nice if there were enough things to do in the house to make it reasonable for us to spend a lot of time there.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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