The case against Lance Armstrong

[Trippy]

I don't believe people who post about baseball in a cycling thread can relate to the fallout from a brash Texan dominating a world cardio endurance sport.

What does this even mean?

It's like if the US dominated World Cup soccer football the last few cups and then got accused of doping. People here in the US would just shrug their shoulders while the rest of the world would be trying to figure out how to destroy the US without destroying their own countries in return.

[Ingmar]

But it isn't like it is only or mostly Americans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

[Paelos]

Hell the majority of the Tour de France winners were accused of doping going back to it's inception.

[ghost]

Yes.  Cycling is inherently dirty.  So are American football and American baseball.  Babe Ruth and others in his era used amphetamines, sheep testicle extract and god knows what else to try and get the upper hand.  The idea that doping has been in baseball forever and that the asterisk is a bit overdone is not being obtuse, it's being a fucking realist.

Does anyone know to what level doping occurs in European football, now that we've brought it up?

[Paelos]

I was actually going to bring up Tennis as one of the worst offenders, who don't really bother checking on it.

[Ingmar]

Does anyone know to what level doping occurs in European football, now that we've brought it up?

I get the impression that it is a can of worms that has only been barely opened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance_enhancing_drugs_in_association_football

[ghost]

I think it is fairly likely that Tiger Woods and some of these other golfers have used HgH and testosterone.  And, of course, olympic sports are terrible for doping also. 

[Cyrrex]

I think it is fairly likely that Tiger Woods and some of these other golfers have used HgH and testosterone.  And, of course, olympic sports are terrible for doping also. 

While I do not think you are wrong, particularly in regards to Tiger, I doubt that it is a rampant problem in golf...simply because I don't think they nearly have as much to gain by it as they do in other sports.  If Tiger did it, I would guess it was for vanity reasons, primarily.  Or, you know, because he wanted to become a Navy Seal or some shit like that.  Muscle mass means very little when it comes to moving a golf ball.  Simply being flexible is a far greater advantage, not to mention being tall.  Excess muscle mass would probably, in the short term, actually negatively impact your accuracy.

[DraconianOne]

The only person banned for doping in Golf to date was Doug Barron in 2009 for testosterone and propranolol.

[ghost]

I realize that equipment has changed, but theres a reason that these guys are hitting the ball a million miles these days. 

Actually, I've been pondering about this some and I think that the next sport that is going to get "outed" about PEDs is the NBA.  Some of these guys are just way too big and fit for their age when they're coming into the league (Dwight Howard is a prime example, and Lebron was one that could be suspect). 

[01101010]

I realize that equipment has changed, but theres a reason that these guys are hitting the ball a million miles these days. 

Actually, I've been pondering about this some and I think that the next sport that is going to get "outed" about PEDs is the NBA.  Some of these guys are just way too big and fit for their age when they're coming into the league (Dwight Howard is a prime example, and Lebron was one that could be suspect). 

Howard is a genetic freak. No man should have arms that long or shoulders that wide.

[ghost]

No man should have.......shoulders that wide.

Ahem.   

[ghost]

And in other doping news, Roger Clemens gets off on his perjury charges. 

I'm not sure what we got out of this other than a shitload of money spent. 

[DraconianOne]

And in still more doping news, the winner of this years South African Comrades ultramarathon has been stripped of his title after testing positive for methylhexaneamine (aka Geranium oil) which can be found in products like "Jack3D" (marketed as a pre-workout drink).

Comrades has testing (unlike a lot of other ultras) mainly because of the size of the cash pot and kudos associated with winning. Not many other events do afaik.

[Paelos]

Should I consider it odd that a 35 year old is outrunning people in their 20s?

[Nebu]

Should I consider it odd that a 35 year old is outrunning people in their 20s?

No.  Most endurance athletes peak in their 30's.

[ghost]

Seriously, is there a pro sport (or even amateur sport) that isn't just rife with doping now? 

[Paelos]

Seriously, is there a pro sport (or even amateur sport) that isn't just rife with doping now? 

Bowling.

[Nebu]

Seriously, is there a pro sport (or even amateur sport) that isn't just rife with doping now? 

Cricket?  Curling?  Yachting?

[ghost]

I doubt even cricket is clean.  It's huge in India, and there is a lot of money being thrown around.  Not sure about yachting.  Is downing a fifth of high dollar brandy considered doping for yachting?   

[01101010]

Not sure about yachting.  Is downing a fifth of high dollar brandy considered doping for yachting?   

Yes, because if you can get your drunken sway in sync with the wave motion on the boat, you become an unstoppable force! 

[DraconianOne]

Cricket definitely isn't clean. (Also this) Not just drugs but also match-fixing.

Curling isn't up there but this case in wheelchair curling is amusing

Most people suspended in Yachting for "Breaches in good manners and sportsmanship" - but Simon Daubney did test positive back in 2007 and then was cleared in 2008.

[DraconianOne]

Should I consider it odd that a 35 year old is outrunning people in their 20s?

Hell no, not in ultrarunning. Scott Jurek, one of the best in the world, is 38. Geoff Roes is 35. 8 of last years top 10 finishers of the Badwater Ultramarathon were over 45 with the oldest being 52.

[ghost]

People that ultramarathon are just fucking insane.

[Nebu]

People that ultramarathon are just fucking insane addicted to pain and endorphins.

FIFY.

[ghost]

So they are, by definition, doping?   

[01101010]

So they are, by definition, doping?   

Naturally.

[DraconianOne]

People that ultramarathon are just fucking insane.

 

Cheers though - it's a thought to keep me going in 5 weeks time. (Along with the caffeine and NSAIDs)

[sickrubik]

This thread proves how much cycling doesn't matter in the US. (Yes I know we're not all in the US.) Didn't take long for people to stop talking about cycling! 

[ghost]

No.  It just proves how fucking retarded f13 is.

Addendum-  I blame Paelos.   

[Paelos]

No.  It just proves how fucking retarded f13 is.

Addendum-  I blame Paelos.   

If I win that copy of Torchlight, you're going to have to choke on those words! 

[ghost]

Look for a beatdown tonight.  It's going to be tough for the Thunder to pull out of a 4-1 hole.

[Rasix]

Look for a beatdown tonight.  It's going to be tough for the Thunder to pull out of a 4-1 hole.

That's usually a tough one to come back from.  Most teams up 4-1 just won't commit to that 6th game.  

[Trippy]

Yeah that would pretty much require divine intervention.

[Paelos]

Want to amend that addendum, ghost?