Transformers: Dark of the Moon

[WindupAtheist]

How many of them are centered around Raven? She hits all the marks to set off the emo poetry gene in teens and pre-teens.

Wow, you're right. Just under 40% tag her as one of, at most, two primary characters. There are little dropdown boxes that let you search by character, so it was easy to run another handful of searches while I was at it. I'll list them by pages of results generated just because.

[Lakov_Sanite]

You guys may want to stop now, I don't think you want to know how deep this rabbit hole goes.

[Fordel]

Robin is basically young hip batman, so those are probably mostly self insertion fantasies as Robin. The others are Robin romancing whoever probably.


But yea, Raven is emo nerd fuel, I could write a small paper on how many different ways she taps into that demographic. 


Cyborg is also a pretty boring character really, all he ever did on the show was eat, fix his car, eat, whine about being a cyborg and eat. Decent supporting guy, but no one really gives a shit if he's gone either way.

[WindupAtheist]

You guys may want to stop now, I don't think you want to know how deep this rabbit hole goes.

Do too!

But yea, Raven is emo nerd fuel, I could write a small paper on how many different ways she taps into that demographic. 

Do it!

[Fordel]

I wonder if I can TLDR this properly.

She's the dark pretty (but not supposed to be pretty), important, mysterious, introverted, shy-wallflower with unlimited power but a overwhelming desire to be accepted and 'saved', that allows emo nerds to feel smugly superior for picking her as their favorite since she's so 'unique' and anti-establishment or whatever you want to call it. They alone are the one to truly understand her and bring her out of her shell. :forever alone face:


Plus, she has purple hair.

[Ratman_tf]

I'm wondering if I should bring up the original Terra from the comics.  (Actually appropriate pedobear in this case.)

[Margalis]

Why do I keep thinking that this thread will end up being more entertaining than the movie?

Because you've watched any Bay movie? (Ok...not counting The Rock I guess)

[Fordel]

The Actual Teen Titans comics are pretty fucked up overall, aren't they?

[WindupAtheist]

She's the dark pretty (but not supposed to be pretty), important, mysterious, introverted, shy-wallflower with unlimited power but a overwhelming desire to be accepted and 'saved', that allows emo nerds to feel smugly superior for picking her as their favorite since she's so 'unique' and anti-establishment or whatever you want to call it. They alone are the one to truly understand her and bring her out of her shell. :forever alone face:

Hmm yeah, when you put it that way it does seem like a template that's gonna demand that every emo girl watching (and at the age this show aimed for, they're all emo) identify with the character.

[Fordel]

Or really, just type 'Raven Teen Titans' into the search field on deviant art. Pictures worth thousands of words and all that.


Deviant Art is NSFW -edit- proper urls.
http://dannysulca.deviantart.com/art/Teen-Titans-and-Aenoch-19484415
http://dark-persian.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Moonlit-Rendezvous-152620925


Where WUA has a fascination with fan fiction, I have one with fan art.  

[WindupAtheist]

With fiction you can usually tell when something is going to be full of buttsex and bail out before anyone gets their pants off. With art, that's it, once you look at the wrong picture you can't unsee that shit. Anyway, in a saner universe that first picture would just be Raven and some long-lost brother of hers, but this being the internet I don't even need to click the associated fanfic to know what's up.

Of course I did anyway.

"Let's see if he bleeds." The other giggled

"I wish I could."

/wrists!

Fucking kids. 

[Fordel]

I think why I am so fascinated with fan art, is that it takes real talent. Any asshole can write a fan fiction, but you need actual skill and effort to draw something respectable looking. Takes hours and hours of practice and devotion... and then they use that talent to draw shitting dick nipples. 

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah there's a gulf between talent and taste that's more readily apparent when it comes to drawing. What I enjoy with written fiction are the people that manage to write genuinely good stories about incredibly lame or absolutely batshit subject matter.

Like there's this one guy who writes utterly serious, dark fiction about silly shit like Gilligan's Island and Fat Albert. The funny/shocking/fascinating part is that it's also really good. If he just changed the names and a few minor details he'd have good original stories about island castaways slowly turning on each other, or a fat guy trying to make it in the hood, or whatever, that no one would think to connect to those shows.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I think why I am so fascinated with fan art, is that it takes real talent. Any asshole can write a fan fiction, but you need actual skill and effort to draw something respectable looking. Takes hours and hours of practice and devotion... and then they use that talent to draw shitting dick nipples. 

You obviously haven't seen most of what's on DA, have you?  Or at least haven't cruised through the anime/manga part of it much.  There is a ton of dreck on there as well, which you end up wading through to find the good and really good stuff.  I'll give those artists props of a sort though - they have the guts to put their stuff out there for others to see.  I wasn't that confident in my own art when it was at that stage.

[Fordel]

I did say respectable looking, did I not? 


I'm not including the folks who can't figure out basic anatomy or coloring inside the lines.

[Sand]

Tiny Titans!

[Chimpy]

The title of this Ars Technica review is fucking awesome:

Transformers: Dark of the Moon is equal parts terrible and weird (Light spoilers)

[Merusk]

All that review tells me is that the folks bitching are really just too old for this shit.  There were similar complaints about "not being able to follow the plot" of the 2nd, and when I saw it the plot was pretty damn easy to follow.

No, it's not deep.  Yes, it's nonsensical.  Just like the animated movie from 1984, which illicited similar "this makes no sense" comments from my parents.   Watching it 25 years later I can see why, but the son loves it as much as I did.

[Lakov_Sanite]

All that review tells me is that the folks bitching are really just too old for this shit.  There were similar complaints about "not being able to follow the plot" of the 2nd, and when I saw it the plot was pretty damn easy to follow.

No, it's not deep.  Yes, it's nonsensical.  Just like the animated movie from 1984, which illicited similar "this makes no sense" comments from my parents.   Watching it 25 years later I can see why, but the son loves it as much as I did.

The first one was tolerable, the second one was shit.

[Hoax]

All that review tells me is that the folks bitching are really just too old for this shit.  There were similar complaints about "not being able to follow the plot" of the 2nd, and when I saw it the plot was pretty damn easy to follow.

No, it's not deep.  Yes, it's nonsensical.  Just like the animated movie from 1984, which illicited similar "this makes no sense" comments from my parents.   Watching it 25 years later I can see why, but the son loves it as much as I did.

NYT seems to agree with you.

So you don’t have to pay terribly close attention if you want to grasp the basic political and military issues. The Autobots like freedom, the Decepticons do not, and mankind — or at least American mankind, which also likes freedom, as well as the cars and guns that symbolize it — is on the side of the Autobots. But there are traitors, both human and metallic, which makes things complicated in the sense that more exposition is required, and plot twists need to be handled with screaming instances of narrative torque.

Overall the review was positive.

[Velorath]

All that review tells me is that the folks bitching are really just too old for this shit. 

Bullshit.  That's right up there with "you just need to turn off your brain", as far as making excuses for movies go.  I'm sick of people saying that the problem somehow lies with the people who are unable to enjoy bad movies.  I like plenty of immature shit, but the Transformers movies suck.  Are people really still impressed with CG special effects and big explosions to the point where that alone can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie for them?  At least the original animated movie didn't have Shia LaBeouf in it.

[Merusk]

I never said they didn't suck, did I?  It's not bullshit, kids like crap.  We liked crap, we just happen to have blinders for it.  Those shows you loved as a child? They were all shit.

It's a valid excuse because it's true, same as 'turn off your brain.'  Just because you can't or won't do it doesn't mean that there aren't millions willing or able to. The box office receipts show that quite plainly, so it doesn't matter what your opinion on it is.

And yes, people are still impressed by big explosions enough that they can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie.  Perhaps you're not familiar with the tradition of blowing shit up the US has.  We have a whole day dedicated just to it. (extending into the nearest week, based on all the noise that's been going on around my place.)

[HaemishM]

Here's the best way to put it, Merusk. Original Transformers stories were cheesy juvenile escapist fantasy. Gobots was similar but total shit.

The Transformers movies are underneath Gobot level in terms of quality. The recent GI Joe movie had a better plot than all three. Just because you are making a loud, obnoxious, toy tie-in summer blockbuster movie doesn't mean you can just forego plot, or narrative or characters. Well, you can, and based on Bay's ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER, you can make a lot of money with it.

But it's still explosive poo scattered on a wall. I'm sure Bay will feel real bad about that on his football field sized bed made of Ben Franklin's.

[KallDrexx]

Bullshit.  That's right up there with "you just need to turn off your brain", as far as making excuses for movies go.  I'm sick of people saying that the problem somehow lies with the people who are unable to enjoy bad movies.  I like plenty of immature shit, but the Transformers movies suck.  Are people really still impressed with CG special effects and big explosions to the point where that alone can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie for them?  At least the original animated movie didn't have Shia LaBeouf in it.

Wahh Wahh wahh, You are just as bad as everyone else in this thread on both sides.  Some people like to only watch intellectual movies that have a lot of thought, some people just want to sit back, relax, and not have to think about every twist and plot that's going to happen in a movie and watch giant robots fighting each other with explosions.  And some people can do both and decide what mood they are in and what type of movie they want to watch at that time.  I know, what a concept.

Just because you don't like to watch mindless action movies and instead are more interested in a well strewn together plot doesn't make your opinion standard. 

Here's a real fact for you.  The second movie made a lot of money because a lot of people paid to see it.  A lot of them enjoyed it enough to recommend it to friends which means more people went to see it.  Here's another fact, even though the critic score on Rotten Tomatoes is 36%, it has a 90% rating by viewers. 

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad, it wasn't made for you.  No one is forcing you to see it.  You are free to watch or not watch any movie you choose.  Get over yourself.

[Surlyboi]

Just because you are making a loud, obnoxious, toy tie-in summer blockbuster movie doesn't mean you can just forego plot, or narrative or characters. Well, you can, and based on Bay's ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER, you can make a lot of money with it.

Take that back. The first Bad Boys was the shit.

[Hoax]

The Rock would like to have a word with you as well.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Bullshit.  That's right up there with "you just need to turn off your brain", as far as making excuses for movies go.  I'm sick of people saying that the problem somehow lies with the people who are unable to enjoy bad movies.  I like plenty of immature shit, but the Transformers movies suck.  Are people really still impressed with CG special effects and big explosions to the point where that alone can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie for them?  At least the original animated movie didn't have Shia LaBeouf in it.

Wahh Wahh wahh, You are just as bad as everyone else in this thread on both sides.  Some people like to only watch intellectual movies that have a lot of thought, some people just want to sit back, relax, and not have to think about every twist and plot that's going to happen in a movie and watch giant robots fighting each other with explosions.  And some people can do both and decide what mood they are in and what type of movie they want to watch at that time.  I know, what a concept.

Just because you don't like to watch mindless action movies and instead are more interested in a well strewn together plot doesn't make your opinion standard. 

Here's a real fact for you.  The second movie made a lot of money because a lot of people paid to see it.  A lot of them enjoyed it enough to recommend it to friends which means more people went to see it.  Here's another fact, even though the critic score on Rotten Tomatoes is 36%, it has a 90% rating by viewers. 

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad, it wasn't made for you.  No one is forcing you to see it.  You are free to watch or not watch any movie you choose.  Get over yourself.

Conversely, titanic was a work of art and along with avatar should be lauded as the greatest movies of all time....oh, wait.  Money and popularity do not nor will they ever equate to quality.  Sorry, transformers movies are not good, you're entitled to you opinion as are thousands of movie-goers and it's a shame your opinion is wrong.




(I still did enjoy avatar but high cinema it ain't)

[Pennilenko]

Bullshit.  That's right up there with "you just need to turn off your brain", as far as making excuses for movies go.  I'm sick of people saying that the problem somehow lies with the people who are unable to enjoy bad movies.  I like plenty of immature shit, but the Transformers movies suck.  Are people really still impressed with CG special effects and big explosions to the point where that alone can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie for them?  At least the original animated movie didn't have Shia LaBeouf in it.

Wahh Wahh wahh, You are just as bad as everyone else in this thread on both sides.  Some people like to only watch intellectual movies that have a lot of thought, some people just want to sit back, relax, and not have to think about every twist and plot that's going to happen in a movie and watch giant robots fighting each other with explosions.  And some people can do both and decide what mood they are in and what type of movie they want to watch at that time.  I know, what a concept.

Just because you don't like to watch mindless action movies and instead are more interested in a well strewn together plot doesn't make your opinion standard. 

Here's a real fact for you.  The second movie made a lot of money because a lot of people paid to see it.  A lot of them enjoyed it enough to recommend it to friends which means more people went to see it.  Here's another fact, even though the critic score on Rotten Tomatoes is 36%, it has a 90% rating by viewers. 

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad, it wasn't made for you.  No one is forcing you to see it.  You are free to watch or not watch any movie you choose.  Get over yourself.

Conversely, titanic was a work of art and along with avatar should be lauded as the greatest movies of all time....oh, wait.  Money and popularity do not nor will they ever equate to quality.  Sorry, transformers movies are not good, you're entitled to you opinion as are thousands of movie-goers and it's a shame your opinion is wrong.




(I still did enjoy avatar but high cinema it ain't)

Your position boils down to, "My opinion is more important than your opinion!"

He was right get the fuck over yourself.

[Lakov_Sanite]

My opinion is not more important, it's just the right one.  It's nice to think everything in life is subjective and that we are all beautiful snowflakes and all right in our own ways. Unicorns are also nice.

[Margalis]

Here's a real fact for you.  The second movie made a lot of money because a lot of people paid to see it.  A lot of them enjoyed it enough to recommend it to friends which means more people went to see it. 

The vast majority of people I know who saw it either thought it was terrible and regretted it or recognized it was bad but enjoyed it anyway as dumb fun.

I can't think of a single person I know who actually thought it was good, and less than half thought it was even entertaining.

[Trippy]

My opinion is not more important, it's just the right one.  It's nice to think everything in life is subjective and that we are all beautiful snowflakes and all right in our own ways. Unicorns are also nice.

STFU.

[HaemishM]

Just because you are making a loud, obnoxious, toy tie-in summer blockbuster movie doesn't mean you can just forego plot, or narrative or characters. Well, you can, and based on Bay's ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER, you can make a lot of money with it.

Take that back. The first Bad Boys was the shit.

I enjoyed both Bad Boys and The Rock, but man, they were some dumb fucking movies with paper-thin plots. I believe Bay actually wasn't big enough yet that people who were producing those movies could tell him to shut the fuck up when he started doing stupid things. Now, however, his box office success means never having to ask for anything or explain to anyone.

[Velorath]

Bullshit.  That's right up there with "you just need to turn off your brain", as far as making excuses for movies go.  I'm sick of people saying that the problem somehow lies with the people who are unable to enjoy bad movies.  I like plenty of immature shit, but the Transformers movies suck.  Are people really still impressed with CG special effects and big explosions to the point where that alone can carry a 2 1/2 hour movie for them?  At least the original animated movie didn't have Shia LaBeouf in it.

Wahh Wahh wahh, You are just as bad as everyone else in this thread on both sides.  Some people like to only watch intellectual movies that have a lot of thought, some people just want to sit back, relax, and not have to think about every twist and plot that's going to happen in a movie and watch giant robots fighting each other with explosions.  And some people can do both and decide what mood they are in and what type of movie they want to watch at that time.  I know, what a concept.

Just because you don't like to watch mindless action movies and instead are more interested in a well strewn together plot doesn't make your opinion standard.  

Here's a real fact for you.  The second movie made a lot of money because a lot of people paid to see it.  A lot of them enjoyed it enough to recommend it to friends which means more people went to see it.  Here's another fact, even though the critic score on Rotten Tomatoes is 36%, it has a 90% rating by viewers.  

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad, it wasn't made for you.  No one is forcing you to see it.  You are free to watch or not watch any movie you choose.  Get over yourself.

I'm perfectly ok with people watching shit movies.  During a Summer where a lot of the movies haven't been particularly good, you guys help pay my bills, so thanks for that.  Anyhow, there are a number of movies I like that aren't exactly high art.  I won't try to defend those movies though by saying that they're anything other than guilty pleasures, and I won't try to say that the problem lies with everyone else who doesn't enjoy them.  That's the point I'm making.  If people want to say "Transformers is a shit movie, but I enjoy it anyway and the kids love it", then whatever.  Saying "the people bitching are just too old for this" is just excuse making though.  Adults are clearly the bulk of the audience, and there are plenty of people here who don't like Transformers, but can appreciate good kids stuff like most of Pixar's movies for example.  Critics being critical of this movie aren't too old, they're just doing their fucking job.


Edit:  Also, for the record there is a middle ground between movies that are intellectual, and movies that require me to get in the mindset of someone with a mental handicap in order to enjoy them.  For instance, I loved 300.  It's an action movie, and doesn't have a particularly deep plot, but it had a unique style to it, there was some humor, the action was easy to follow (in other words, no shaky-cam, or quick cuts to obscure the action), the character's were likable, and at just under 2 hours, it didn't outstay its welcome. 

Also, not directly related to the movie itself, it doesn't help that most of the people involved in the Transformers movies have a habit of publicly making themselves known as douchebags, and who also generally acknowledge that the previous movie was a crap rush job, even while guys like you bend over backwards to defend it, by pointing out the user ratings on Rotten Tomatoes and the box office grosses.

[Lakov_Sanite]

That's exactly how I feel, minus all my douchebaggery.  I don't think transformers are good movies but popular and fun? Sure.  To me it really boils down to this metric. "would I sit and watch this movie again if it came on tv" a good movie you'll always find time to watch, a bad movie you'll just go watch tosh.0 reruns instead.

[Ginaz]

All I wanted to see was giant robots fighting other giant robots.  I left the theater very satisfied.  My only real complaint was that it was 15-20 mins too long.