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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 509295 times)
calapine
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Reply #490 on: February 15, 2016, 12:32:56 PM

We should know more pretty soon when eLISA goes active. Similar principle to LIGO (laser interferometer) but in space with an "arm length" of 1 million kilometres.


So check back in 2034.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Kail
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Reply #491 on: February 15, 2016, 12:57:09 PM

...Reaches us a billion years after it started at just the right time in humanity's tech tree

I know a few guys who were scratching their heads about this one.

Allegedly there are three types of black holes: stellar black holes, which are like 10 solar masses and are the result of supernovae, and intermediate or supermassive black holes which sit at the middle of galaxies / clusters and are thousands or millions of solar masses.  But LIGO was picking up two thirty solar mass black holes colliding to form a sixty solar mass black hole, and it did this within months of being switched back on, which suggests that either the LIGO team was incredibly lucky or there are a lot of these very large stellar black holes floating around that we've never seen before.
pxib
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Reply #492 on: February 15, 2016, 04:33:38 PM

Um, lots of "places to look" between 10e-35 m and 10e-15 m, and beyond 10e+26 m.
It's not a place to look unless we build a big enough telescope or microscope, or some other sort of sensitive detector. It's getting exponentially more expensive to build these things. Theoretically possible places to look are not actually places to look unless we can look there.

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Mandella
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Reply #493 on: February 15, 2016, 04:41:59 PM

Is it funny that this reminds me of the original Michelson-Morley experiment?
Except, like I said, Michelson-Morley was a negative result. It questioned the orthodoxy instead of confirming it.

Yes, it's amazing that we can detect a little spacetime wiggle - and that has consequences and potential for the future of astronomy - but it would have been a lot more exciting if the numbers didn't match the theory quite so well. We're running out of places to look for deeper understandings of physics.

At least neutrinos are still refusing to behave properly.

Still a long way from a warp drive or easy fusion, but these days you take what you can get...
pxib
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Reply #494 on: February 15, 2016, 10:14:04 PM

Honestly they're exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to measurement equipment:

William Bragg, and his son William Bragg, won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1915 for inventing the first X-ray spectrometer, pictured HERE. You can practically smell that Edwardian elbow grease.

Takaaki Kajita and Arthur McDonald won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2015 for proving that neutrinos "oscillate" probabilistically between flavors as they travel through spacetime. This required the use of the Super Kamiokande, pictured HERE. Note the men in rafts.

The ATLAS detector, which I found a small enough photo to post rather than link:


It's a camera the size of an apartment building, mounted on CERN's 27km Large Hadron Collider and it may or may not have found a Higgs boson. It seems really likely.

LIGO (the gravity wave observation program) is two sites, 3000km apart each of which contain enormous vacuum-sealed tubes containing 4km long laser interferometers arranged at right angels.

Magnificent progress, yes. Sustainable progress, no.

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calapine
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Reply #495 on: February 19, 2016, 11:02:42 AM



Orbital bombardment, probably.  why so serious?

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Abagadro
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Reply #496 on: February 20, 2016, 12:05:35 AM

Only way to be sure.

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Venkman
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Reply #497 on: February 20, 2016, 09:08:11 PM

Magnificent progress, yes. Sustainable progress, no.
Except they didn't go from nothing to LHC.

All progress is incremental, baby steps from the last thing achieved.

The only invention that happens is in fiction.
Typhon
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Reply #498 on: February 21, 2016, 11:59:12 AM

And yet at the same time that we're running the LHC experiments, we're tapping at the fringes of desktop accelerators (plasma wakefield accelerator) that have a significant portion of the energy as last generation's big boys - so they dont' hit the big numbers, but they hit more numbers and with a greater degree of tweaking the collision parameters to continue to probe nuclear and sub-nuclear reactions.

And I'm reminded of a period of time where space-based telescopes were considered to be the only path forward, until high launch costs and advances in adaptive optics made that not true at all... and now, (fingers crossed) we seem to be headed toward a time where that is exactly the opposite - launch costs come way down compared the headaches and costs of building another huge telescope on the ground.

So yeah, if there aren't any game-changing advances in corollary disciplines it becomes exponentially harder to just keep doing more of that we've been doing.  But when have we ever just done that?

I honestly don't see there to be any pessimism for the capacity to do scientific experimentation and exploration at this point in time.  It's, at least in physics, on the theoretical side of things that we seem to be a bit stuck.
pxib
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Reply #499 on: February 23, 2016, 09:44:28 AM

All progress is incremental, baby steps from the last thing achieved.
I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My concern is that today's baby steps require seven league boots. The era when somebody could change our understanding of physics with something he built in his garage is long gone.

In 2001 one of the detector tubes at the Super Kamiokande imploded while the chamber was being refilled with water. The shockwave from that implosion led to a chain reaction of implosions in other tubes which ultimately cost somewhere upwards of $30 million. 7 thousand (out of 11 thousand) tubes imploded.

Only governments can afford these groundbreaking experiments.

I honestly don't see there to be any pessimism for the capacity to do scientific experimentation and exploration at this point in time.  It's, at least in physics, on the theoretical side of things that we seem to be a bit stuck.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that we're running out of places where we might push the frontier. The cost curves are too steep.

Not, mind you, that other experiments can't be done. There are all sorts of potential discoveries within the boundaries of our current understanding. Practical purposes may be found for the small scale accelerator technology you mention, for example. Ghost busting, perhaps.

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Khaldun
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Reply #500 on: March 01, 2016, 11:59:18 AM

I think at some point the only way to move ahead will be something that radically reduces the costs of instruments that have to operate at unprecedented scales. Not just incrementally reduces. Self-assembly of instruments in the asteroid belt by Von Neumann probes, something like that.
climbjtree
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Reply #501 on: March 01, 2016, 09:09:05 PM

I lurk a lot, thought I should contribute.

I took this photo of Orion's Nebula tonight. I'm a very, very much an amateur, but for an unguided shot it's not too bad! If you're interested, you can find the acquisition info after the link.

Mosesandstick
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Reply #502 on: March 02, 2016, 01:29:31 PM

That's amazing!
Mandella
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Reply #503 on: March 02, 2016, 04:42:46 PM

I lurk a lot, thought I should contribute.

I took this photo of Orion's Nebula tonight. I'm a very, very much an amateur, but for an unguided shot it's not too bad! If you're interested, you can find the acquisition info after the link.



Just two nights ago the sky was crystal clear here and I was especially admiring Orion and M42. Nice to see I wasn't the only one!
calapine
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Reply #504 on: March 06, 2016, 10:40:12 AM

Reminder & Heads up sort of:

The Exomars 2016 mission is packed and ready for launch on tomorrow in one week (2016-03-14 - 09:31UTC)

Already inside a Proton-M/Breeze-M in Baikonur:




How it looks in natura:



The thing on top is the Schiaparelli Entry, Descent and Landing demonstrator module (EDL), the spacecraft it sits on the Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO).

More info about what it is and what is does later this week (I am feeling a bit lazy now embarassed)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:43:16 AM by calapine »

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pxib
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Reply #505 on: March 11, 2016, 01:09:10 PM

Ack! (paper from 2012)
Quote from: Abstract
Highly relativistic speeds are desirable for interstellar travel. Relativistic time dilation would reduce the subjective duration of the trip for the travelers, so that they can cover galaxy-scale distances in a reasonable amount of personal time. Unfortunately, as spaceship velocities approach the speed of light, interstellar hydrogen H, although only present at a density of approximately 1.8 atoms/cm3, turns into intense radiation that would quickly kill passengers and destroy electronic instrumentation. In addition, the energy loss of ionizing radiation passing through the ship’s hull represents an increasing heat load that necessitates large expenditures of energy to cool the ship. Stopping or diverting this flux, either with material or electromagnetic shields, is a daunting problem. Going slow to avoid severe H irradiation sets an upper speed limit of v ~ 0.5 c. This velocity only gives a time dilation factor of about 15%, which would not substantially assist galaxy-scale voyages. Diffuse interstellar H atoms are the ultimate cosmic space mines and represent a formidable obstacle to interstellar travel.

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Mandella
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Reply #506 on: March 11, 2016, 06:34:37 PM

Ack! (paper from 2012)
Quote from: Abstract
Highly relativistic speeds are desirable for interstellar travel. Relativistic time dilation would reduce the subjective duration of the trip for the travelers, so that they can cover galaxy-scale distances in a reasonable amount of personal time. Unfortunately, as spaceship velocities approach the speed of light, interstellar hydrogen H, although only present at a density of approximately 1.8 atoms/cm3, turns into intense radiation that would quickly kill passengers and destroy electronic instrumentation. In addition, the energy loss of ionizing radiation passing through the ship’s hull represents an increasing heat load that necessitates large expenditures of energy to cool the ship. Stopping or diverting this flux, either with material or electromagnetic shields, is a daunting problem. Going slow to avoid severe H irradiation sets an upper speed limit of v ~ 0.5 c. This velocity only gives a time dilation factor of about 15%, which would not substantially assist galaxy-scale voyages. Diffuse interstellar H atoms are the ultimate cosmic space mines and represent a formidable obstacle to interstellar travel.

As I understand it, the drag the interstellar hydrogen adds would also be formidable, which is also a problem with the hydrogen ramscoop concept (though a working magnetic ramscoop should also divert the relativistic hydrogen away from the hull too).

Anyway, that's just engineering!

 awesome, for real
Ghambit
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Reply #507 on: March 11, 2016, 08:10:14 PM

Irrelevant to a White-Juday drive system.  Basic warpfield mechanics 101.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 08:23:36 PM by Ghambit »

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calapine
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Reply #508 on: March 13, 2016, 01:23:17 AM

Does it belong to Space or awesome pictures? Not sure, but here it is anyway:




Quote
The animation above was assembled from 13 images acquired on March 9, 2016, by NASA’s Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera (EPIC), a four-megapixel charge-coupled device (CCD) and Cassegrain telescope on the DSCOVR satellite. Click on the link below the animation to download the individual images from the series.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=87675&eocn=home&eoci=iotd_image

Edit: It's as solar eclipse (obviously) and the shadow is moons (rather obviously too).

Edit 2: Not a but the solar eclipse of March 8 - 9th 2016. Images provided by GoreSat.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 01:40:31 AM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Soln
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Reply #509 on: March 13, 2016, 11:07:02 AM

Thank you Calapine, great stuff.
KallDrexx
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Reply #510 on: April 08, 2016, 02:58:00 PM

calapine
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Reply #511 on: April 08, 2016, 03:09:10 PM

Yes , the internet is going crazy over it right now  Grin

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01101010
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Reply #512 on: April 08, 2016, 03:23:02 PM

So Musk is printing more money I take it?  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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Reply #513 on: April 08, 2016, 03:38:20 PM

The way I understand the situation:

Industry: You can't build cheaper high quality rockets.
SpaceX: We just did.
Industry: You can't build rockets that are high quality and lift heavier payloads.
SpaceX: We just did.
Industry: You can't improve the process and expense by recovering and recycling an entire stage.
SpaceX: We just did.
Industry: You won't be able to make a successful manned space craft.
SpaceX: Really...fuck you guys.

Am I correct in that this has been the general theme of this whole situation?

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #514 on: April 08, 2016, 03:42:08 PM

Replace Industry with ULA and you're basically correct
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Reply #515 on: April 08, 2016, 06:18:58 PM

Nailing that landing gave me goosebumps. Now that's some fucking science.

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Reply #516 on: April 08, 2016, 06:25:39 PM

Onboard view of the landing

Apparently if all the testing goes well that Falcon 9 will be ready for re-use by June.
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Reply #517 on: April 09, 2016, 05:28:51 AM

That landing was totally off-center; almost put that rocket in the drink.  why so serious?

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Reply #518 on: April 09, 2016, 09:58:40 AM

Watching the live stream of that yesterday was awesome, caught it at -0:04:00 and watched it until something like +0:20:00 when the solar panels on the Dragon deployed.

Nailing that landing on Of Course I Still Love You, made my day. DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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Lucas
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Reply #519 on: April 13, 2016, 10:13:00 AM

Let's go to Alpha Centauri!!!

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/stephen-hawking-and-billionaire-announce-project-send-tiny-probes-nearest-star-system-180958745/?no-ist

Presentation (just a snippet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoCm6vZDDiQ


Quote
The idea is to send a mothership full of nano-bots into high-altitude orbit. The ship would then release hundreds of the bots, dubbed “starchips.” Each bot, which costs roughly as much as an iPhone, is about the size of a postage stamp and is attached to very thin sails a few meters wide, Ross Anderson writes for The Atlantic.

But to propel the bots into hyper drive will require energy from a ground-based laser, which would blast a beam of light at the tiny bots' sails for two minutes, accelerating the bot to one-fifth the speed of light, roughly 100 million miles per hour. At that rate, the swarm of light-propelled probes could reach Alpha Centauri, 4.37 light years away, in about 20 years.


A frickin' mothership full of tiny probes with a sail in front and propelled by a laser beam from Earth.


FUCK YEAH  DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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WWW
Reply #520 on: April 13, 2016, 07:29:14 PM

Somebody's been reading Charles Stross.

Abagadro
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Reply #521 on: April 13, 2016, 08:04:29 PM

Given current tech it is about as fiction too.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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calapine
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Reply #522 on: April 25, 2016, 03:34:55 PM

Work on JWST is contitung.

Today 13 of the 18 primary mirrors have been uncovered. NASA "streamed" it live, at 1 image per minute. So I created a 30 second timelaps out of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5IE1s1z9G0

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Morat20
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Reply #523 on: April 26, 2016, 08:10:55 PM

You know, looking at that -- more and more I'm certain the most incredible thing NASA has done with manned flight in the last few decades was fixing the Hubble.

Look at all the care they're having to take on Earth. Imagine trying to fix that in space.

The JWST is pretty freakin' badass though. I'm gonna be thrilled when it launches.
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Reply #524 on: May 10, 2016, 04:02:44 AM

Also quite excited about the JWST, incredible piece of engineering.

NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory got some amazing footage of yesterday's Mercury transit:
https://youtu.be/AhWMOkrzKzs

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