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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 77018 times)
Torinak
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Reply #770 on: March 28, 2017, 01:55:06 AM

The first private Mars mission will be one-way in any case; though the govt. contract for it won't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMe7dRoPRVU  (skip to 45 sec)
      DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Was that the inspiration for Kerbal Space Program?
Teleku
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Reply #771 on: March 28, 2017, 12:09:09 PM

Always sort of wonder why we've never used the 2nd method mentioned in that clip.  Even when I was a kid it seemed to make a lot of sense to just do a couple of launches to send up parts of a spaceship and put it together, instead of building a giant ass complicated rocket.  You could use the ship repeatedly as a taxi between the moon and earth, sending small rockets up to dock with it when its time to send somebody over.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #772 on: March 28, 2017, 12:55:34 PM

At the time we hadn't done any in-space construction, and the suits were only usable for short periods in vacuum. Even docking required people on both sides of the maneuver (tele-operations being extremely primitive, and automation was a joke by modern standards).

Really, we had no business making the moon shots, from a practical POV. It started out as a way to sell ICBM development to the public, and turned into peen waving.

--Dave
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 01:01:04 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Teleku
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Reply #773 on: March 28, 2017, 04:32:29 PM

Yeah, sorry, I meant that as "why have we never done it."  I understand in the original context, but since then it seems like a way cheaper way to get to the moon...  Just surprised we haven't tried that route in the last decade or two.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 02:34:45 PM by Teleku »

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Chimpy
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Reply #774 on: March 28, 2017, 05:07:41 PM

Yeah, sorry, I meant that as "why have we never done it."  I understand in the original comtext, but since then it seems like a way cheaper way to get to the moon...  Just surprised we haven't tried that route in the last decade or two.

Because it is not economically feasible to send large payloads up to even low-earth orbit unless they are communications satellites and there is little political will to spend public money on much of anything in space. The ISS and a few scientific probes have enough trouble getting funding as it is.

The moon is just not super interesting for most people and until the economics of launching objects into space gets to the point where it becomes cost effective for private entities to think about it, I doubt anyone in the west will even do more than spout off about grandiose plans. China may send someone to the moon, but for them it would be about nationalism more than anything else.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
calapine
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Reply #775 on: March 29, 2017, 12:21:41 PM

And then they will have to try and find someone willing to ride in an untested capsule, on top of an untested rocket integration, just to make a man who only cares about his own ego look good.

Yeah, I don't see a lot of the NASA astronaut corps signing on for that job. They walk past the memorials to Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee every day they are at work.

One option I saw mentioned is to have (another) uncrewed flight of Orion on Delta IV Heavy before SLS is ready. Which leaves SLS as untested part, although one could sort of argue it not a fully new rocket as it's components (Shuttle engine, shuttle boosters, shuttle tank...) have been used before.

And unlike the Shuttle Orion at least has a launch abort system.

Edit: Vibration testing of the JWST to see if it can deal with the loads experienced at launch. 18 months to go until lift-off on Ariane 5.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 12:50:03 PM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Ghambit
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Reply #776 on: March 29, 2017, 08:58:07 PM

I've been wondering.  If the JWST gets destroyed due to failed launch, would it be considered the biggest and most expensive scientific instrumentation loss in history?  I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with something potentially more significant.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
calapine
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Reply #777 on: March 30, 2017, 05:15:27 AM

With a roughly 9bn price tag, I guess so yes.

And Trump would treat it as casus belli.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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calapine
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Reply #778 on: March 30, 2017, 12:44:18 PM

SpaceX is about to make a splash tonight, they are re-flying the first re-used first stage on a mission. They will also attempt to recover the payload fairing (see my earlier post mentioning such rumors,now it's official)

They will also attempt to land the booster again, but due the weight of the satellite, which is pretty much the current limit they are managing expectations by saying it's unlikely to succeed.

Launch window: 18:27 EDT/22:27 UTC - 20:57 EDT/00:57 UTC
Satellite mass: 5281kg
Target orbit: GTO with Apogee 35410 km, Perigee 218 km, Inclination 26.2°. Which is equivalent to 1800 m/s Delta-v needed to reach GEO

For questions i'll be here tonight  wink
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 12:45:50 PM by calapine »

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Reply #779 on: March 30, 2017, 01:48:01 PM

We also might see the debut a of new Roomba-like stage-grabbing robot that stabilizes the landed booster.

See animation here:

Click me! I am Youtube video and want to be watched!

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Teleku
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Reply #780 on: March 30, 2017, 02:52:11 PM

Heh, I didn't know they were working on the roomba thing.  Very neat!

I'll be in bed when they launch, but good luck to them!

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Abagadro
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Reply #781 on: March 30, 2017, 05:38:43 PM

They landed the booster. I watched it live on the can on my magic tablet. Teh future is here.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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calapine
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Reply #782 on: March 30, 2017, 05:42:31 PM

A story in pictures:







Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #783 on: March 30, 2017, 08:43:48 PM

So what happened with the fin? Saw a bit of video I can't find now that showed it getting burned away. But it still landed.

--Dave

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Trippy
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Reply #784 on: March 30, 2017, 09:45:55 PM

They landed the booster. I watched it live on the can on my magic tablet. Teh future is here.
Grats to SpaceX -- an impressive accomplishment.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #785 on: March 30, 2017, 10:30:34 PM

that booster looks a lot more scorched than the previous landings. I wonder if they will be able to use it again?  It was supposed to be at the upper limit of what they expected to be able to handle, speed wise.

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Reply #786 on: March 30, 2017, 11:38:37 PM

So what happened with the fin? Saw a bit of video I can't find now that showed it getting burned away. But it still landed.

--Dave

It didn't burn away, what you probably saw was reentry heating.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #787 on: March 31, 2017, 04:55:34 PM

So what happened with the fin? Saw a bit of video I can't find now that showed it getting burned away. But it still landed.

--Dave

It didn't burn away, what you probably saw was reentry heating.
Yeah, found the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZSXav4wI8&feature=youtu.be&t=25m55s You'll have to click through to get it at the proper time code

Found it at this Stack Exchange discussion, consensus appears to be that it is normal for the fins to heat differently as they steer the re-entry. Apparently it's ablative paint cooking off the fins that clouds out the camera view.

--Dave

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calapine
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Reply #788 on: March 31, 2017, 05:03:13 PM

Musk said they are going to develop new grid-fins out of titanium to better resist the heat. The current ones are aluminium with fire protection coating.

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Ghambit
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Reply #789 on: March 31, 2017, 06:46:51 PM

As they prove overall system reliability, I would guess they'd swap out a good bit of parts with titanium.

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calapine
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Reply #790 on: April 05, 2017, 03:33:59 PM

Short informative video I just came across.

You are in space, aboard Soyuz. Suddenly: Smoke starts filling the capsule...there is a fire onboard. What to do?

ESA astronaut Andreas Mogensen explains

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01101010
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Reply #791 on: April 05, 2017, 04:39:37 PM

Short informative video I just came across.

You are in space, aboard Soyuz. Suddenly: Smoke starts filling the capsule...there is a fire onboard. What to do?

ESA astronaut Andreas Mogensen explains


Me? Exhibit A.


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Chimpy
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Reply #792 on: April 05, 2017, 05:12:42 PM

Needs the addidas logo on his chest to fit the soyuz story  why so serious?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
calapine
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Reply #793 on: April 22, 2017, 03:16:43 PM

Something a bit more "in depth"

A nicely narrated 12:00 minute ESA short film explaining the issue of space debris.

Space debris - a journey to Earth

Space debris - a journey to Earth - 3D stereoscopic version
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 03:19:13 PM by calapine »

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calapine
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Reply #794 on: April 29, 2017, 06:57:54 AM


Image is link to the PDF

Already expected, but now offical is that the first SLS flight will be delayed from Novermber 2018 sometime in 2019. Main culprit is the Orion Service Module that is provided by ESA and will be somewhat late.Sorry, guys!  Heartbreak
SLS itself might have timeline as well due to welding problems on the oxygen and hydrogen tanks. Additionaly some of the Ground Service Equipment won't be ready in time either.

Also we know the cost for SLS and it's first two missions: 23.8 bn dollars.  Ohhhhh, I see.



I am not sure if the 11.3 bn for Orion include the cost ESA spends on the first service module or not. Else half a billion has to be added to the number.


Finally, a cut-away of the rocket and capsule:

« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 07:05:35 AM by calapine »

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calapine
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Reply #795 on: April 29, 2017, 12:54:32 PM

Elon update:

He seems to be a tough player.

1) Clash with Tesla CEO Musk forces Grohmann to quit

Quote
According to Reuters news agency, Klaus Grohmann was forced to leave last month after a clash with chief executive Elon Musk over the strategy of Grohmann's firm, which Tesla had acquired in November.

Grohmann had disagreed with Musk's demands to focus management attention on Tesla projects to the detriment of Grohmann Engineering's legacy clients, including German carmakers Daimler and BMW, Reuters reported on Thursday.

Originally, Tesla had planned to keep Grohmann on, and Grohmann wanted to stay, but the clash with Musk over how to treat existing clients had resulted in his departure on March 31, two sources familiar with matter told Reuters.

Klaus Grohmann declined to comment on the circumstances of his leaving, citing confidentiality clauses, the agency noted, quoting Grohmann however as saying: "I definitely did not depart because I had lost interest in working."

2) SpaceX is planning a mega-constellation of communication satellites. So is competitor OneWeb. SpaceX is now trying to get the FFC (Federal Communications Commission) to put OneWebs application on hold...

Quote
SoftBank Group of Japan, a large investor in OneWeb, is arranging a OneWeb marriage with established geostationary satellite fleet operator Intelsat. SoftBank has other investors joining it through a special investment vehicle.

SpaceX said neither SoftBank nor OneWeb have disclosed the identities of the SoftBank partners, but that they “possibly include Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund.” Whoever they are, SpaceX said, the FCC should not rule on the OneWeb application until they are known publicly.

Considering Musk repeatedly states he is not in for the money but doing it to improve humankind his tactics are quit underhanded.

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Ragnoros
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Reply #796 on: April 30, 2017, 08:44:05 PM

Seems fairly classic ends justify the means mentality. Shrug. I generally expect most of the uber-wealthy to be people who expect to get their way in all matters, regardless of the consequences to those around them. I am rarely disappointed.

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Ghambit
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Reply #797 on: May 01, 2017, 09:53:51 PM

Today's SpaceX launch coverage was epic.  At this point, just let Musk do whatever the fuck he wants.  Skip to around 14mins for MECO to landing (the best parts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzQpkQ1etdA&feature=player_embedded

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Shannow
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Reply #798 on: May 02, 2017, 08:27:37 AM

I feel the urge to reinstall KSP.

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Merusk
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Reply #799 on: May 02, 2017, 11:20:33 AM

Considering Musk repeatedly states he is not in for the money but doing it to improve humankind his tactics are quit underhanded.

I have ZERO problems with making sure that the various Saudi nutjobs don't have direct access to or control of international communications satellites. In calling them out I find Musk advancing humanity far more than those who'd ignore the various problems likely to be introduced by accepting more oil money from zealots.

As for his firing of Grohmann, yeah, I can totally support that. If you're not willing to change to your new company's priorities 1) you shouldn't have sold or 2) you should bow-out gracefully.

I'm seeing a similar situation now. My company bought-out a guy in Arizona/ Nevada for the Autodesk customer base and kept him on. The former CEO is now constantly causing problems by trying to fulfill his former company's role and focus of IT support & development over the current company's Education and Business Process focus. He's been chided pretty often because we don't build machines, we don't provide IT services and we don't troubleshoot non-ADSK problems, but he keeps pushing that direction. If my company's CEO were less tolerant due to this guy's age (he's 70) and former status in the industry we'd have fired him about 6 months ago.

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Ghambit
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Reply #800 on: May 02, 2017, 11:27:55 AM

I feel the urge to reinstall KSP.

Probably right after you witnessed (in both 1st and 3rd person) a giant 1st stage rocket backflipping and burning right back to where it launched from.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Shannow
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Reply #801 on: May 02, 2017, 02:27:21 PM

I feel the urge to reinstall KSP.

Probably right after you witnessed (in both 1st and 3rd person) a giant 1st stage rocket backflipping and burning right back to where it launched from.

Right!

Now if I can just fix the 'then smash into the ground at 5000 kph causing an immense fireball' problem...

Someone liked something? Who the fuzzy fuck was this heretic? You don't come to this website and enjoy something. Fuck that. ~ The Walrus
01101010
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Reply #802 on: May 02, 2017, 06:46:48 PM

I feel the urge to reinstall KSP.

Probably right after you witnessed (in both 1st and 3rd person) a giant 1st stage rocket backflipping and burning right back to where it launched from.

Right!

Now if I can just fix the 'then smash into the ground at 5000 kph causing an immense fireball' problem...

Try moar magnets!!

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calapine
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Reply #803 on: May 05, 2017, 02:20:22 PM

"Just a nice launch"

Launch video of Ariane 5 flight VA236

Taken from the beach with a great view. Booster separation (starting at 1:10) is nicely visible.


Context/Background:
This one happened with 44 days delay after a strike by the trucker union quickly turned into a social movement.
The issues were the upcoming privatization of a hospital (and poor health care in general), the due to (alleged) under-staffing of police a high crime rate and illegal gold mining as well as a high unemployment rate of 23%

Which lead to a total shutdown of the space port, the airport and Guianna in general, with supermarkets running food at one point.



After the mentioned 44 days an agreement for a €2.1 bn infrastructure investment package (including new schools and a courthouse) was reached which ended the protests.


The launch was very typical in number and typo of payload: 2 communication satellites, the most common cargo, one Brazil, one for Korea.

As I mentioned before, the dual-launch is achieved by employing the Sylda, basically a satellite sized thimble.



This allows to take advantage of the Ariane's rather high capacity of ~10,750 kg to GTO. The concept will be retained for Ariane 6, which is in developlment at the moment.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 02:47:49 PM by calapine »

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calapine
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Reply #804 on: May 12, 2017, 12:28:41 PM

A short video covering the basics of the JWST. Length 3:52, made by ESA:

JWST mission preparations
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 12:35:09 PM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
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