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Morfiend
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Reply #35 on: December 02, 2010, 01:50:48 PM

Ghambit
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Reply #36 on: December 04, 2010, 01:52:11 PM

Even Descent is not a Holy Trinity dungeoncrawl. There's absolutely no point in having things like tanks (because there's no support for keeping fire off of weaker characters) and there's no way to make a healer unless you're extremely lucky with loot cards. There's also no consistent way to CC unless you find very specific items. There aren't even any spells to speak of. Descent is, at best, a multiplayer Diablo session where you have to do all the bookkeeping manually. Except it's not like Diablo, because the DM will do everything in her/his power to avoid getting her/his monsters killed, including running behind corners and generally "exploit" rules to the contrary of the hack'n'slash genre.

I thought the expansions addressed most of this... especially Tomb of Ice  (adds feats), Well of Darkness (taunt and more Overlord "power") Road to Legend, and Sea of Blood. i.e. in a campaign you have more time to develop a trinity-like strat.
Most reviews of expanded games I've found (I've only got the base set) have actually harped on the fact that a good Overlord against a tactically-unbalanced group will wtfpwn them every time.
This is all subjective of course, every encounter is different... but I'd always thought the potential was there.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
naum
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WWW
Reply #37 on: December 04, 2010, 02:06:27 PM

Anyone ever play Small World?

Quote
In Small World, players vie for conquest and control of a world that is simply too small to accommodate them all.

Designed by Philippe Keyaerts as a fantasy follow-up to his award-winning Vinci, Small World is inhabited by a zany cast of characters such as dwarves, wizards, amazons, giants, orcs and even humans; who use their troops to occupy territory and conquer adjacent lands in order to push the other races off the face of the earth.

Picking the right combination from the 14 different fantasy races and 20 unique special powers, players rush to expand their empires - often at the expense of weaker neighbors. Yet they must also know when to push their own over-extended civilization into decline and ride a new one to victory!

Has an iPad version too, though DL'ed, haven't messed with it much yet.


"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
Ingmar
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Reply #38 on: December 04, 2010, 06:31:34 PM

Small World is a lot of fun but basically nothing like what MrB is asking for here.

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 10:03:45 AM

World of Warcraft boardgame.

I already own that, like the real game, the rules are a mess.

There's two World of Warcraft board games (and more than that if you count just "warcraft" board games).  The first one was a big box game that was incredibly convoluted, the second is "World of Warcraft, the adventure game" which is more like talisman.

How much time do you want to devote every game night, how many players do you have, and do you want just dungeon-crawling or fantasy adventure in general?


I own this one, its a mess.


Is this the Ravenloft you guys were suggesting? I recall playing the original DnD setting, and liking it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:05:30 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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Tarami
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Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 10:51:11 AM

Correctomundo.

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Ghambit
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Reply #41 on: December 18, 2010, 12:16:30 PM

I did a run-through of Descent at my last 'gaming night' with a buncha muggles.  Surprising the strats people come up with when encountering some hardship (everything from LOS spawn-blocking to potion deliveries), even from those who have no business playing epic games.  We didnt finish the game and probably went for a semi-solid 3 hrs., but I can see a good sized quest being done in 3 with a competent group.  We played with 5 heroes and it wasnt too bad, but I could tell the odds are severely against the overlord in this case unless he's got serious skills or houserules some stuff.

Setup and play wasnt too bad because I've got every bit organized into tackle boxes, which you HAVE to do in games of this ilk.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Strazos
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Reply #42 on: December 19, 2010, 09:29:00 AM

I thought max was 5, including the DM? If that's true and you have 5 PCs on the board, that may explain why the odds were so stacked against you.

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Ghambit
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Reply #43 on: December 19, 2010, 12:03:46 PM

I thought max was 5, including the DM? If that's true and you have 5 PCs on the board, that may explain why the odds were so stacked against you.

Nope.  Max is 5 heroes (plus any familiars), hence why the monster stats go up to 5.
The biggest problem with having 5 PCs is finding LOS to spawn, but much of this is my fault since I didnt close the entry-door, which would've allowed a small spawn area.   Also, the strat must be to swarm the weakest player with everything you've got.  And since LOS is blocked by other units, the more PCs there are the less LOS there is.

note:  all of this B.S. I'm spewing is basically an excuse for my lack of skillz  Ohhhhh, I see.   It really just boils down to tactics.  By the 2nd room though I'd fallen into a groove.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Strazos
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Reply #44 on: December 19, 2010, 03:50:13 PM

It's 5 players, including the DM, I am almost positive.

I believe the stat cards start at two, correct? That would be 1 hero, 1 DM. I've DM'ed a 5 hero game before, and it just breaks down once they get any kind of gear.

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Sand
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Reply #45 on: December 21, 2010, 12:06:26 PM

Great thread. I was just looking at Descent last night at the local game shop, for the same reasons Mr.Bloodworth was. Something to play, to get non-D&D friends involved in.
So it sounds like the over all opinion is a thumbs down though?
They had something similar that they said came out a month or so ago? They didnt know much about it or have any reviews.
Any ideas?

So what would be like a top 5 list to look into buying? Not Ravenloft though, never liked the campaign setting.

Edit:

I think the newer one we were looking at was Runewars or Defenders of the Realm. Anyone know anything about either of these two?

And then on the website posted, Boardgamegeek.com, I saw there was a game which combined elements of board playing with the Forgotten Realms campaign setting called "Heroscape". Anyone played that?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 12:22:28 PM by Sand »
Ingmar
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Reply #46 on: December 21, 2010, 02:25:23 PM

Have not played Defenders of the Realm yet, but I have a friend who recommended it. It is a co-op fantasy game, but not a dungeon crawler, basically you're trying to stop various monsters from getting from the outside edge of the map to the center city.

Heroscape is a tactical minis game, not really in the vein of this stuff at all. Also collectible so wallet impact is going to be large.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sand
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Reply #47 on: December 21, 2010, 03:04:03 PM

Cool thanks for the feedback. So Heroscape is off the list. Any info on Runewars?
This is going to be a Christmas present from the wife to me which is why Im curious on getting reviews/feedback.
Tarami
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Reply #48 on: December 21, 2010, 03:04:52 PM

Great thread. I was just looking at Descent last night at the local game shop, for the same reasons Mr.Bloodworth was. Something to play, to get non-D&D friends involved in.
So it sounds like the over all opinion is a thumbs down though?
They had something similar that they said came out a month or so ago? They didnt know much about it or have any reviews.
Any ideas?

So what would be like a top 5 list to look into buying? Not Ravenloft though, never liked the campaign setting.

Edit:

I think the newer one we were looking at was Runewars or Defenders of the Realm. Anyone know anything about either of these two?

And then on the website posted, Boardgamegeek.com, I saw there was a game which combined elements of board playing with the Forgotten Realms campaign setting called "Heroscape". Anyone played that?
FFG's recent release would probably be DungeonQuest, if talking dungeoncrawlers.

- Castle Ravenloft doesn't really have much to do with the campaign setting - it's just a branding and an excuse to be in a castle so it can be a dungeoncrawl. It's mostly a mechanical game with not a lot of thematic colour, which is what I like about it.
- Runewars is a tactical war game, other than that I don't know much about it except that it's absolutely not what you're looking for.
- Defenders of the Realm is a fantasy adventure game where you and your fellow players cooperate to beat the game. The game progresses by drawing cards and you have to kill the enemy leaders before any of a number of things (100 ways to lose, one to win.) It should be said it's very hard to win, even sober.
- HeroScape gives me environmental angst with its senseless use of plastic. Otherwise what Ingmar said.

Really, to parrot myself, DungeonQuest is a light, quick and fun dungeon romp. It does, however, require a certain crowd, one that doesn't mind losing and have a little sense of theatrics (a large part of the fun stems from dying horribly in amusing, pitiful ways.) The new edition is pretty good if you replace with the overdeveloped combat with rock, paper, scissors (as it was in previous editions) or it will drag on too much. I will not recommend Descent to anyone unless they ask me where to get decent cheap miniatures. Other than that I don't think there are four other games I'd strongly recommend, from what I've played.

Actually, I'd recommend you (and everyone) to stay away from pretty much all original FFG designs. They've published or re-published some pretty good games without touching much of the original mechanics (like DQ,) but everything they've produced in-house is laden with chits, cards, dolls (miniatures) at the expense of ease of play, elegance and balance. Now, that doesn't mean they can't be fun, but it's more playing with toys than trying to crack a game. If board games were computer games, FFG would be Lionhead.

PS.
You can also find good video reviews which summarize the rules, gameplay and give verdicts for many of these games at http://www.thedicetower.com/thedicetower/index.php/game_reviews
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 03:07:22 PM by Tarami »

- I'm giving you this one for free.
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dusematic
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Reply #49 on: December 21, 2010, 11:48:42 PM

This thread needs more Hero Quest. 
Sand
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Reply #50 on: December 23, 2010, 11:29:38 AM

Tarami, thanks for the link to the Dice Tower site. Im going through their reviews now. Pretty cool site.
Ghambit
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Reply #51 on: December 24, 2010, 12:06:01 PM

DiceTower (where I get most of my game info.) consistently ranks Descent in the top 5 boardgames of all-time.   Ohhhhh, I see.  Thumbs down??  I think not. 

Ravenloft and DungeonQuest???  Vassel hates them both for what seems like good reason.
Granted, he's always been one to prefer crunchier, more epic style gaming, but the faults he finds in many games are valid. 

It's 5 players, including the DM, I am almost positive.

I believe the stat cards start at two, correct? That would be 1 hero, 1 DM. I've DM'ed a 5 hero game before, and it just breaks down once they get any kind of gear.


You're right.  So I guess I've been gimping myself this whole time.

Anyways, now that I have my regular gaming group going I'll probably go and purchase the 2 best xpacs and the 'Sea of Blood' campaign xpac, which gives ship combat and much shorter game scenarios that can be saved.  My biggest gripe is if you dont defeat analysis paralysis the games can go waay too long; the campaign xpacs solve this.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Tarami
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Reply #52 on: December 24, 2010, 06:00:27 PM

DiceTower (where I get most of my game info.) consistently ranks Descent in the top 5 boardgames of all-time.   Ohhhhh, I see.  Thumbs down??  I think not.  

Ravenloft and DungeonQuest???  Vassel hates them both for what seems like good reason.
Granted, he's always been one to prefer crunchier, more epic style gaming, but the faults he finds in many games are valid.  
Ghambit, I'm not going to argue Descent's merits and flaws with you when you make such a non-argument. If you think Descent deserves being the fifth best game of all time, motivate it better than Tom Vassel thinking so (eventhough he places it ninth and not fifth as you said.) DiceTower/Tom Vassel likes Descent, good for him. I don't think it belongs on a top 100 list for anything but components.

Furthermore, he doesn't hate neither Ravenloft nor DungeonQuest. He dislikes DungeonQuest but argues it might be for some people. Also, the mortality rates of DungeonQuest have been grossly exaggerated. "Dying on the second turn" is an extremely rare occurance. On the other hand, Ravenloft he thinks is very good. He also argues it's not much alike Descent, which is also true, but they're both dungeoncrawlers which is why they've both been mentioned here.

Ravenloft is a game I can bring out in almost any crowd that jives with a fantasy theme and have a good time beating the game. However, it has heavier gameplay than DungeonQuest which is very pick-up-and-play, which is why I recommend the latter for a group of non-gaming friends. In Descent people are likely to be antagonized (the overlord) and feel bullied (the weakest hero.) It's extremely cut-throat and sensitive to attitude of the players. This is the reverse of HeroQuest, where this discussion began, which has a benevolent DM who is supposed to challenge but not chastise the other players.

Regarding Road to Legend (the campaign expansion for Descent):  My bet is you are never going to finish a campaign where the heroes win. Either Tamaril is going to be sacked very early, or you're going to start over or quit playing. This is the experience of everyone I've ever heard try it (myself included.)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 06:02:09 PM by Tarami »

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Ghambit
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Reply #53 on: January 06, 2011, 12:10:23 AM

I too heard that about RtL having too many early sacks of towns, which is why I opted for Sea of Blood.  I havent bought it yet, but plan on it (along with ToI and WoD which add feats, treachery, etc.) once my group gets comfortable with vanilla Descent.  They're still requesting to play it, so that's a good thing I guess.  The biggest complaint so far is gametime and the lack of being able to truly grow their characters over time.  The other complaint, when they lose it's fairly non-dramatic (unlike DQ).  One of em dies and I take their tokens... game over.   Ohhhhh, I see.     It's fairly obvious that the game is fairly lacking without the expansions, so if you're not willing to drop $200+ I wouldnt recommend it either.

Once I get my redesign of "BattleStations" done though, all my other games will likely go up for sale.  It's the perfect crawler in spaaaaaace with RPG capability, but the original production quality and some of the rules are just  swamp poop

In other news, I just bought a copy of "Earth Reborn."  Only game I've ever owned where there's a literal minigame involving simply unpacking it.  Seriously, the designer built a puzzle into packing the box after unpunching everything.   why so serious?   I dub this a tetris poker pvp story-driven rpg crawler resource wargame.  If it sounds complex, you've heard wrong... it's worse.  Absolutely beautiful game though, and one of the most beautifully designed if you figure it out.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Khaldun
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Reply #54 on: January 08, 2011, 02:18:08 PM

As long as we're talking boardgames, anybody here ever do Twilight Imperium? I'm kind of getting an impulse-interest in it after getting out my old AH version of Freedom in the Galaxy, which wasn't an absolutely great game but it was pretty fun in its own way.
JWIV
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Reply #55 on: January 08, 2011, 02:48:11 PM

As long as we're talking boardgames, anybody here ever do Twilight Imperium? I'm kind of getting an impulse-interest in it after getting out my old AH version of Freedom in the Galaxy, which wasn't an absolutely great game but it was pretty fun in its own way.

I played it once - it was hugely fun, but probably takes 8-12 hours to play.
Sand
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Reply #56 on: January 08, 2011, 06:19:35 PM

As long as we're talking boardgames, anybody here ever do Twilight Imperium?

Is it based on the book and movie series?
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Reply #57 on: January 08, 2011, 10:48:24 PM

As long as we're talking boardgames, anybody here ever do Twilight Imperium? I'm kind of getting an impulse-interest in it after getting out my old AH version of Freedom in the Galaxy, which wasn't an absolutely great game but it was pretty fun in its own way.

I have it.  You pretty much need the expansion, which introduced several rule changes that improve the hell out of things, as well as some very very patient friends.  The games are loooooooooong.  Like, 'start after lunch, end after dinner' long.  But if you like 4X turn based space games, TI is a very faithful member of the genre in board game form.  I like it.

For a shorter PvP space board game, I recommend Cosmic Encounter.  It's a pretty basic game but can have surprisingly deep strategy and negotiation among the players.
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Reply #58 on: January 08, 2011, 11:27:29 PM

How about the Cthulhu board games? A coworker has been running a non-computer gaming night for a couple years now (at the library) and I've been meaning to drop in, but they tend to play a lot of gimmicky lame stuff (I did almost show for the Carcassone night).

Khaldun
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Reply #59 on: January 09, 2011, 12:12:40 AM

Have Cosmic Encounter. Play it occasionally. I do like it, though there's some serious imbalances if you're playing with people who know which powers to really exploit.
Kitsune
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Reply #60 on: January 09, 2011, 03:48:29 AM

How about the Cthulhu board games? A coworker has been running a non-computer gaming night for a couple years now (at the library) and I've been meaning to drop in, but they tend to play a lot of gimmicky lame stuff (I did almost show for the Carcassone night).

One of my roomies owns Arkham Horror and its expansions.  It's fun.
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Reply #61 on: January 09, 2011, 05:21:30 AM

How about the Cthulhu board games? A coworker has been running a non-computer gaming night for a couple years now (at the library) and I've been meaning to drop in, but they tend to play a lot of gimmicky lame stuff (I did almost show for the Carcassone night).

One of my roomies owns Arkham Horror and its expansions.  It's fun.

I enjoy it a lot too, but it should be noted that it takes quite a long time to play and if you don't like overproduced games with a billion little bits and cards and such, you won't like Arkham Horror.

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Raging Turtle
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Reply #62 on: January 09, 2011, 01:42:32 PM

It's not quite Cthulhu, but Betrayal at House on the Hill (second edition) is pretty damn fun.  You start with 3-6 players exploring a haunted house, and at a randomly determined point in the game one of the players switches sides and starts working against the rest of the players.  Nobody knows who the traitor will be until that event happens, which keeps it interesting.  There's about 50 different possible scenarios, with different goals for each side in each scenario. 

Only takes an hour or so to play and it was on sale at Amazon for $20 during the holidays, which means it probably will be again at some point.  Definitely worth it. 
Tebonas
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Reply #63 on: January 09, 2011, 11:56:26 PM

Have Cosmic Encounter. Play it occasionally. I do like it, though there's some serious imbalances if you're playing with people who know which powers to really exploit.


Old one or new one? The old one was wicked fun, sadly the new one reduced the number of players to four, so it wasn't fit for our playing group anymore.

We always let the players draw their race (one out of three) and removed the "I win" ones from the game. Oh, good times.
Kitsune
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Reply #64 on: January 10, 2011, 02:01:39 AM

The new-new Cosmic Encounter starts with 5 players, the Cosmic Incursion expansion brings it to 6, and the upcoming Cosmic Combat expansion brings it to 7.  The one that was limited to four players was the Avalon Hill version, which was beautiful but unfortunately not supported worth a damn.
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Reply #65 on: January 10, 2011, 02:52:11 AM

Ah, off to buy a my third version, then  awesome, for real
Ghambit
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Reply #66 on: January 11, 2011, 01:14:43 PM

As long as we're talking boardgames, anybody here ever do Twilight Imperium? I'm kind of getting an impulse-interest in it after getting out my old AH version of Freedom in the Galaxy, which wasn't an absolutely great game but it was pretty fun in its own way.

I have it.  You pretty much need the expansion, which introduced several rule changes that improve the hell out of things, as well as some very very patient friends.  The games are loooooooooong.  Like, 'start after lunch, end after dinner' long.  But if you like 4X turn based space games, TI is a very faithful member of the genre in board game form.  I like it.

Didnt the latest edition fix a lot of the earlier issues?

How about the Cthulhu board games? A coworker has been running a non-computer gaming night for a couple years now (at the library) and I've been meaning to drop in, but they tend to play a lot of gimmicky lame stuff (I did almost show for the Carcassone night).

As said before, Mansions of Madness should be coming out soon which is essentially Arkham Horror meets Betrayal at House on the Hill. 

In other news:
I wiped the floor as Overlord vs. 5 Heroes the other day, on an easy quest no less, and in the 1st room.  'Course, I have extra monsters and I gave myself an extra card at every draw.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Assuming this icestorm abates enough I should have the ol' StarTrek Adventure game, High Frontier, and Dominant Species comin in the mail by the end of the week.  If anyone is interested in Dominant Species, check out "rsolow" on BGG.  He's the only retailer in the world really that has any in stock, even though the site might say he doesnt.  DS is a frontrunner for game of the year and it's OOP, so hard to find.

I might break down and buy Merchants&Marauders tonite after seeing a few reviews.  (sigh)  At least this shit is cheaper than goin to da' club.

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Khaldun
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Reply #67 on: January 11, 2011, 02:40:03 PM

This conversation made me pull my old copies of City of Chaos and Divine Right off the shelf and look through those. Both fun if flawed.
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Reply #68 on: January 11, 2011, 02:51:49 PM

I have it.  You pretty much need the expansion, which introduced several rule changes that improve the hell out of things, as well as some very very patient friends.  The games are loooooooooong.  Like, 'start after lunch, end after dinner' long.  But if you like 4X turn based space games, TI is a very faithful member of the genre in board game form.  I like it.

Didnt the latest edition fix a lot of the earlier issues?


Yes, it did.  I had the previous edition of Twilight Imperium and the latest one is a definite step up from it.  But it's still an empire building game with a lot of players vying for control, and all of the time consumption inherent with that.
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Reply #69 on: January 13, 2011, 02:06:24 AM

So, I take it this has turned into the general board game thread?  Good, because I've just started getting a group of people into them finally!

How is Shogun?  Looks pretty good from what I've read so far.  I've gotten people into settlers of Catan, and we a had a good time.  Though they also want to play a more combative game where you fight off other players as well.  We've only had risk to fill that gap, but Shogun looks like a good mix of the two.  Any thoughts?  Also, are any of the expansions to settlers worth it?

How is Puerto Rico?  Like I said, got people into settlers, and while they like it, I can tell they already are interested in trying something with more depth.  This game is highly rated and seems to fit the bill. 

Finally, for a co-op game, been looking at Pandemic, which is also rated pretty high.  How does that play out?

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