Shared or joint driveway easements?

[CaptainNapkin]

I realize this is probably an odd question, but I'm looking for folks' opinions that have direct personal experience with property that utilizes a shared/joint driveway easement. We're looking at a plot that is basically everything we want with the exception of it being landlocked with an easement. I have a deed guy digging for more info and agreement on it. What I know so far is that it's shared between 3 plots, 1 is currently undeveloped, 1 has a home that has a separate driveway built and the 3rd is the property in question. Both of the other 2 plots also have direct road frontage/access.

This property otherwise is great but I'm fairly nervous about the potential for problems/nuisance with this type of setup. Love to hear if anyone has experienced this and has thoughts on it.

edit: to note it's Middle Tennessee area btw

[Furiously]

Is it shared maintenance?

[CaptainNapkin]

I just heard back and there is no maintenance agreement filed with the deed, which honestly makes me more nervous.

A little more info - The easement runs down the split of the plots so it lays equally on each side. It is a 50' wide easement and runs the full length of the longest plot which is just under 3500ft.

[proudft]

You weren't expecting the other property owner(s) to maintain that driveway, were you?   3500 feet is a longass driveway for someone to maintain that they never use themselves.

EDIT: Oh, I see it was a question from Furiously.  I guess he was picturing a 50-foot shared driveway between two houses.

Anyhoo, my parents had an easement in a similar situation, landlocked property and it headed over the neighbor's land to get to the road.  Probably 1200 feet or so.  They did all the maintenance themselves, bringing out truckloads of gravel every few years or whatever.  But it all depends what the deed says, you need to read that, and carefully.  And probably get a lawyer too.  Crossing down the property line and involving yet another party is kinda annoying, I wonder why they did that.

[Khaldun]

Be really really careful is all I can say. My folks looked at a property once that was landlocked where the current owners just said, "Oh, don't worry, there's never been an issue about driving across this one stretch of our neighbor's land to get to the house". This turned out to be a lie covering up a gigantic clusterfucked legal fight about a badly drafted easement that made the property unsellable.

[Sky]

That would be an instant walk-away for us. Can you buy the undeveloped parcel with frontage? That's the only way I see that having a happy ending.

[proudft]

If the easement was set up right, why not?   What are the other properties gonna do, rip up the driveway and put a house there?  Then you call the sheriff when you see the construction equipment.   I mean, shitty neighbors are shitty neighbors regardless, so you want them to be reasonable people anyway regardless of the weirdness of the deed, and that's all part of the pre-purchase investigation.

If it's otherwise everything you want, get a lawyer to look at the deed and tell you what any problems are with it.  Maybe they did it right, who knows?

Yet another possibility is just buying the corridor outright off the neighbor(s).  3500x25 feet each won't be cheap but it might be worth it if there is something bothering you about the concept.

[Numtini]

My inlaws have a similar property, though in their case if they had a notion, they have the frontage for a driveway. It was set up that way because the property had no clear title (bought for cash from someone who didn't have clear title) and it was set up in land court on the basis of what actually existed at the time. Plus, the lots are huge and this is the logical place for a driveway and out of view of the neigbor's house so nobody cared at the time.

Just have an attorney look at it and make sure its set up correctly and go over what rights you have or don't. Like, if you want it paved, can you pave it? Can you hire a plow for snow, even though that would rip it up? That kind of thing. One thing I've seen at work though, is make sure if it is delineated that the driveway is where it's supposed to be. We had one where there was a very specific easement, but it wasn't actually where the physical driveway was.

But as long as the paperwork is in order, and you are ok with whatever restrictions there are, it's pretty common around here.

[CaptainNapkin]

I think I'm on track with how I'm proceeding with this, which is cautiously. I agree I'm tempted to walk away but that's the New Jersey in me, and here in TN it's a more common setup from what I gather. I intend to go down the path of seeing if I can purchase the easement portions from the other 2 owners since they both have road frontage. I think purchasing the entire undeveloped lot is out of the question because it's 40 acres and would likely push me over what I'd like to spend.
I guess my nervousness is mostly my thought that a bad neighbor can stay well within the law and still make things miserable right? So I'm ultimately taking a chance on who neighbors end up being. We're looking to purchase the home we'll retire on at this point so that would be a long time in a sour situation if it went that way.

I appreciate the comments and thoughts, they are keeping my brain churning.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I think I'm on track with how I'm proceeding with this, which is cautiously. I agree I'm tempted to walk away but that's the New Jersey in me, and here in TN it's a more common setup from what I gather. I intend to go down the path of seeing if I can purchase the easement portions from the other 2 owners since they both have road frontage. I think purchasing the entire undeveloped lot is out of the question because it's 40 acres and would likely push me over what I'd like to spend.
I guess my nervousness is mostly my thought that a bad neighbor can stay well within the law and still make things miserable right? So I'm ultimately taking a chance on who neighbors end up being. We're looking to purchase the home we'll retire on at this point so that would be a long time in a sour situation if it went that way.

I appreciate the comments and thoughts, they are keeping my brain churning.

For the bolded part - make sure you pay your FD tax.

[Johny Cee]

I think I'm on track with how I'm proceeding with this, which is cautiously. I agree I'm tempted to walk away but that's the New Jersey in me, and here in TN it's a more common setup from what I gather. I intend to go down the path of seeing if I can purchase the easement portions from the other 2 owners since they both have road frontage. I think purchasing the entire undeveloped lot is out of the question because it's 40 acres and would likely push me over what I'd like to spend.
I guess my nervousness is mostly my thought that a bad neighbor can stay well within the law and still make things miserable right? So I'm ultimately taking a chance on who neighbors end up being. We're looking to purchase the home we'll retire on at this point so that would be a long time in a sour situation if it went that way.

I appreciate the comments and thoughts, they are keeping my brain churning.

Driveway/road easements shouldn't be an issue, and are fairly common in rural/undeveloped areas.  If there is a problem with the easement, that should show up in the title search I'd think.


With undeveloped properties, it's never a bad idea to get it re-surveyed...  especially if the last survey or subdivision was a while ago.  It's also a good idea to clearly mark your property boundries, so no one makes a mistake either building or clearing property (innocent or otherwise).

[CaptainNapkin]

For the bolded part - make sure you pay your FD tax.

LOL, yeah that was the hot news this morning on my local talk radio.

[Abagadro]

In my private practice days I saw these both work well and be huge problems depending mostly upon the personal relationship with the neighbors. The main problem will be if they deny you access even if you are completely right legally it will be a huge pain to enforce it.  I'd say buying the property to own it in fee is the best way to go to avoid future issues although that is another 4 acres of land so may be a bit spendy although I would think you could easily cut that down to 16 feet which is probably all you need.  Heck, offer to take 16 feet down the centerline in fee and unburden 17 feet on either side to reduce the purchase price.

[Merusk]

I dunno, no access to the lot just an easement would make me walk away, but that's me.  I agree with Johny that you need to get everything resurveyed/ staked, though.   If it's not marked, then people start to think of physical markers as the property lines (always to their advantage) when reality is much, much different. 

Neighbors: "OH, I thought the utility boxes were all on my property, I didn't realize those were on the property line!"   

[Furiously]

Or you could go talk to the two neighbors and ask them if they have any issues. 3500 feet is a huge amount. You are going to spend a ton on gravel and weedkiller.

[Grimwell]

The Internet has taught me that every equation involving people includes at least one asshole. If it's down to you and the neighbors and you aren't an asshole, they are.

Also, if this neighbor is cool (making you the asshole) and they sell the house and move, you have no control over the new neighbor who could be a greater asshole. I saw that in my hometown. Two houses built by the same contractor. They screwed up and built a shared driveway that was 80% on one property and 20% on the other (a Y fork with the ends going to houses and th stem to the road).

80% neighbor sold and moved. New owner came in and dropped a fence down the property line to say "Fuck off this is mine" about the driveway. 20% neighbor had to pay for 20% to become 100% on their property and it was too late to sue the builder and make him do it.

Or this:

[Salamok]

If you go through with the purchase then make sure your title insurance policy has the survey coverage clause.  Then if the survey (showing the easement) ends up being wrong the title insurance will cover it.

[CaptainNapkin]

So I've got the info on who owns surrounding tracts and I may possibly make offers to buy out easement since they don't need it. But I'm also seeing that the plat provided is different than what the realtor's property tool shows, which may indicate the plat provided is older. One of the tracts now shows subdivided and owned by 2 separate entities. So I continue to look into that. It was recently surveyed so I'll be going to actually see where the stakes lie soon. In the mean time I have a few other properties I'm looking at this weekend that are a bit farther out, but no easements for the driveways that I'm aware of so far.

Luckily it's a great time to be a buyer as there are tons of options out there.

[CmdrSlack]

So I've got the info on who owns surrounding tracts and I may possibly make offers to buy out easement since they don't need it. But I'm also seeing that the plat provided is different than what the realtor's property tool shows, which may indicate the plat provided is older. One of the tracts now shows subdivided and owned by 2 separate entities. So I continue to look into that. It was recently surveyed so I'll be going to actually see where the stakes lie soon. In the mean time I have a few other properties I'm looking at this weekend that are a bit farther out, but no easements for the driveways that I'm aware of so far.

Luckily it's a great time to be a buyer as there are tons of options out there.

I don't know what part of TN you're in, but if you're near the center of all that is evil (Knoxville), I may know some lawyers 'round there.

[CaptainNapkin]

I'm near the other center... of all that is country music, Nashville. But thank you.

[Polysorbate80]

Expect this road to cost you a good chunk of cash.

The "driveway" from our house is 1700', and would have been partially through our property and partially through the neighbor's land.  We purchased the .8 acre 18' wide strip needed to connect our property to the county road from the neighbor.  We could have just gotten an easement, but the owner is an elderly lady who's slipping into dementia and her power-of-attorney son is a greedy S.O.B.  Fortunately it wasn't really a farmable patch, falling between two farms, so it was only about $3k in purchase and legal fees.

Unfortunately, that means the road goes through a low spot in the terrain, and had to be built up with a *lot* of rock and a good-sized culvert at the lowest point.  They built the base last year for $17000 before starting house construction; they're actually in this week re-grading and putting in the finishing coat of gravel.  ~400 tons of gravel at $10/pound, plus $2k labor at least; it will probably be more.  That brings the total to $26000+, depending on the final amount of rock laid down.

That would give it a suitable base for paving, but that could be another 25K and it ain't in the budget.

Maintenance costs I don't have a handle on yet, won't know until we've lived there long enough to see how quickly it deteriorates.  It got chewed up pretty good this last year, but there was a lot of trucks and heavy equipment moving through during home construction.

[LC]

Expect this road to cost you a good chunk of cash.

The "driveway" from our house is 1700', and would have been partially through our property and partially through the neighbor's land.  We purchased the .8 acre 18' wide strip needed to connect our property to the county road from the neighbor.  We could have just gotten an easement, but the owner is an elderly lady who's slipping into dementia and her power-of-attorney son is a greedy S.O.B.  Fortunately it wasn't really a farmable patch, falling between two farms, so it was only about $3k in purchase and legal fees.

Unfortunately, that means the road goes through a low spot in the terrain, and had to be built up with a *lot* of rock and a good-sized culvert at the lowest point.  They built the base last year for $17000 before starting house construction; they're actually in this week re-grading and putting in the finishing coat of gravel.  ~400 tons of gravel at $10/pound, plus $2k labor at least; it will probably be more.  That brings the total to $26000+, depending on the final amount of rock laid down.

That would give it a suitable base for paving, but that could be another 25K and it ain't in the budget.

Maintenance costs I don't have a handle on yet, won't know until we've lived there long enough to see how quickly it deteriorates.  It got chewed up pretty good this last year, but there was a lot of trucks and heavy equipment moving through during home construction.

Wow, where do yo live? I can get a guy with a bulldozer in here for $500/day or less. Gravel here is sold by the truck load not by the pound. I got a $3000 estimate to pave our ~500' driveway a few years back.

[CaptainNapkin]

Expect this road to cost you a good chunk of cash.
......stuff....

Appreciate the perspective.

[Chimpy]

That math on the $10 a pound for gravel has to be off. That would make a ton cost 20 grand.

Also, aggregate (stuff like gravel and sand) is sold in tons everywhere I have been.

[Samwise]

Gravel is around a nickel a pound if you buy it by the bag at Home Depot, and that's probably way more than if you buy it in bulk.

[Polysorbate80]

Yeah, it's $10/ton (or 20-25ish a yard, depending on what metric you buy it by.)  The "pound" there is a mistake, I dunno why I threw that in.

Also, like I said, there was a lot of large fill rock that went into our road base, and it's totally from scratch (no pre-existing road cut); it's more expensive than the average.

I got a $3000 estimate to pave our ~500' driveway a few years back.

One thing to look at is what you need to run on that driveway; I forgot to mention that I (ironically) wound up giving an easement on the road to the guy I bought the property from as part of the sale, so I have to consider the possibility of combines or grain trucks driving down it.  That would require heavier paving than a light-duty "driveway."

[CaptainNapkin]

The only property actually using the driveway right now (and ever so far) is the one I'm looking at. It's dirt only, some gravel thrown down up top closer to the home, but the bottom half has ruts so bad I don't think my wife could drive it in her car. My truck, no problem but bouncy. It's a given I'd need to get some stone and spend a weekend dragging a box scraper... so the cost of stone plus the cigars and scotch to get me through the work is already floating in my head. No problems with that, tooling around on my tractor is a large part of my weekend relaxation.

[CaptainNapkin]

The only reference in the deeds regarding the easement, outside of plotting it out, is a very simple two sentence paragraph stating it is for shared driveway access and not public purposes. It's way too general for me, leaving me to attempt to buy it out. After giving this one more time and looking at more homes, we decided to just pass on anything with easements. There's just too many other properties out there for us to consider something with a possible headache in the future. I do appreciate the input that was given here on the subject.

[Sky]

we decided to just pass on anything with easements. There's just too many other properties out there for us to consider something with a possible headache in the future.

Good call. Unless it's the most stunning mountaintop or lakefront or something else that you can't get without using easements, it's probably not worth the potential hassles. If you could buy out the lane for a driveway, it might be worth it, though. Still want to be careful so you don't end up with a trailerpark on either side of your previously secluded driveway.

I've seen too many beautiful rural locations destroyed because the owner didn't own enough of the surrounding land. People who buy a single building lot at the road in the country are insane. My fiancee thinks I'm nuts because I'd want 5 acres on my side of the road...and at least 3 acres of frontage across the street.

[dusematic]

Uh, my take is that it's not a big deal.  From what I remember from law school off the top of my head, all landlocked properties acquire an easement by necessity when they're subdivided unless there is some agreement to the contrary recorded.  They expect people to build a helicopter landing pad to get home?  Doesn't add up.  This assumes that the neighbor is such a horrific shitheel that he attempts to invalidate an otherwise facially valid easement in order to prevent you from accessing your home.

[Polysorbate80]

It can be a big deal, particularly if the legal details aren't spelled out clearly.  Worst case I can recall around here was a woman who granted her neighbor an easement, only to later find he sold off the timber on his property, and she had to endure several weeks of logging trucks roaring up and down her driveway from about 6am until the late hours of the evening.  That destroyed the road, which the neighbor then refused to repair because "he didn't own it." 

Yupl, that one wound up in a big ugly lawsuit.

[CaptainNapkin]

It can be a big deal, particularly if the legal details aren't spelled out clearly.  Worst case I can recall around here was a woman who granted her neighbor an easement, only to later find he sold off the timber on his property, and she had to endure several weeks of logging trucks roaring up and down her driveway from about 6am until the late hours of the evening.  That destroyed the road, which the neighbor then refused to repair because "he didn't own it." 

Yupl, that one wound up in a big ugly lawsuit.

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff although rare, that I just couldn't get out of my mind when considering it.

Our hesitance turned out to be a good thing. We found a much nicer piece of property not too far from the one with the easement that needs no improvements at all. Had we purchased the one with the easement, my estimates with needed improvements/repairs put total cost well beyond where we are with the new place. And provided all continues on track throughout the week, we close on Friday.