Job thread

[Paelos]

Take the time to put your responsibilities and current jobs on paper/spreadsheet. Estimate times on them. Often people don't know exactly how much is out there until it's listed.

Take that list to your higher ups and point out what the workload looks like with estimated times to get things done.

If their response is that it looks ridiculous and you need help, good. Follow up with them monthly on progression to get you help. If they've done nothing after three months, consider finding new work.

If their response is to argue with your estimates, find new employment immediately. You are in a toxic workplace, and you will only get buried further until you lash out or quit without better options.

[Yegolev]

Without knowing details, my impression is that you are still playing the tactical ground game when you should be focusing more on the strategic layer.  Rest assured that the people who ascend are not the ones fighting in the trenches.  There probably is some work to be done outside the infantry division that you can acquire and turn into your job, while leaving the old one behind.

Edit to say that I'm presenting a less officially-sanctioned path than Paelos but one that is nevertheless very effective.

[Paelos]

The other option is to prioritize your stuff and just stop doing what doesn't get noticed. Then when people complain you point out what you are working on.

I got the controller position because I made sure I was on our biggest client's workload. I got offered payroll crap over and over again and I dodged it every time. Why? Payroll crap is worthless busy work. If it's rote nonsense that requires no thought, and you are being paid to solve problems, stop doing it immediately. That stuff should be shifted to someone with a lower pay grade, and that's on your manager. Sometimes you have to force their hand.

I know I've walked into my bosses office and said, "You have these 10 things, how do you want them ordered." That happened weekly. If I didn't get to the other crap, I had it shifted to somebody with open time. Taking the high priority high visibility stuff is the way to get out of bad situations, even if that requires more work.

[HaemishM]

My suggestion is that unless you love working for that company, don't bother with the time estimations and just get the fuck out of there at the first opportunity. A company that won't fill vacated positions after a year yet won't change workloads doesn't give enough of a fuck about its employees to be worth your time.

When I'm super busy and people want me to do more stuff, most of the time if I can't do it in less than 30 minutes, I look to my immediate supervisor and say "Ok, which of these things do you want me to put first?" Everyone responsible for giving me work knows that's me nicely saying "Fuck you, I'm going to work on what he tells me to do. If that ain't your shit, I don't care and you can take it up with him."

[Rasix]

Well, it's not helping that I don't currently have a direct first line manager.  Haven't had one since the last useless meatbag volunteered for the firing line (he had another job lined up).  We've been lacking a direct manager for months.  I think they've finally fired too many managers.

[Rendakor]

I think they've finally fired too many managers.

First time that's happened in the history of anywhere.

[Merusk]

After all these rounds of cuts I'm still boggled at the fact you haven't walked, Rasix. Trying to be the last rat off a sinking ship?

[Yegolev]

Actually, Rasix's situation is ripe with opportunity.  I'd advise staying and taking Paelos' better-worded advice, especially with a power vacuum.  You say there's no one to organize the workload?  Assume that job, become the guy that decides what lives and dies.

Another enormous pro-tip: Most people are morons, so you can definitely do their jobs.  Act with confidence and others will fall in line behind you.

Don't think about the job, think about the career.  These are actually not the same thing.

[Paelos]

Yegolev is right about a power vacuum. People in an office are mostly sheep. They follow whatever person actually assumes command regardless of title.

[shiznitz]

I agree with Paelos as well.  You should prioritize the stuff that really matters and let the other shit slowly fall through the cracks - but only while informing the upper levels that this is what you are doing (in a politically worded way, of course.)  In addition, do not work extra hours for which you are not compensated.  Work hard when you are working and then leave when the bell rings.  You just might get promoted by proving you can identify what matters.

[Paelos]

My dad had a saying: you don't get credit for whipping yourself.

Working your ass off at something unimportant is worse than being lazy.

It shows you have no idea what matters and aren't worth promoting.

[Rasix]

Guys.  Everything is super important.  

Mainly right now to get anything done I have to neglect the super long term stuff (you want a test plan for that? No, I'd rather sleep) and just focus at what's at hand.  It's difficult being the architect and the only person with the capability do actually test the newer technologies.  There's just no room to bring people up to speed, and we don't have the luxury to babysit folks that can't figure it out.   Apparently I'm the only one that can Google shit.

Anyhow, I appreciate the advice.  I'm just trying to figure a way out of this rabbit hole.  I'm guessing a few nights a week, gaming time is going to have to turn into 'unfuck my job situation" time.   Hey, at least I'm employed.  That's good, right?  

[Paelos]

Guys.  Everything is super important.  

I'd argue with you on that, but you're in the trenches, not me. My experience in general has been this isn't the case though. People tend to overvalue things when they are getting pulled in different directions.

That being said, only you can really assess the situation, and if it's untenable, you have to consider a new job. If EVERYTHING is mission critical you are in a bad work situation that won't likely improve with more of your time dumped into it. They'll just end up pushing more on you until you break.

[Yegolev]

I know I appear as a Internet Buffoon on F13, but I know the situation you are talking about.  I've been there and managed it.  Good advice in this thread.

Everyone's stuff is the most important to them, but unless their job is to prioritize your workload, their opinion means nothing.

It's a tough spot to be in.  Good luck.

[pxib]

Congrats!

Come for the increased responsibility, stay for the inability to enact change!

Rather surreal, but all the responsibility I've theoretically gained is things I had already been doing with my nominal boss gone for six months, and I'm enacting change all over the place because nobody who held this position in the last ten years has done much of anything newl. Just a few minor tweaks and we're so efficient that I'm vaguely concerned my department won't have enough work to do...

...which just means I get to steal tasks that other departments have been moaning about for months, and implement all the things librarians have been asking us to do for years. All of which we always said we couldn't because we didn't have the time. Plus the new people I've hired don't have extant expectation, so anything I ask them to do is the right thing, and any way I ask them to do it is the right way.

Seriously, I'm waiting for somebody to get upset or for something to blow up in my face because so far the transition to management has been an absolute dream.

[Merusk]

Actually, Rasix's situation is ripe with opportunity.  I'd advise staying and taking Paelos' better-worded advice, especially with a power vacuum.  You say there's no one to organize the workload?  Assume that job, become the guy that decides what lives and dies.

Another enormous pro-tip: Most people are morons, so you can definitely do their jobs.  Act with confidence and others will fall in line behind you.

Don't think about the job, think about the career.  These are actually not the same thing.

I see this, but 4-5 rounds of cuts and no manager, leaving his ass with 4-5 equal bosses is such a terrible situation to be in I don't think there's any REAL opportunities.  Depends on the size of the company, I suppose, but I think I see where Rasix's head is at and he can correct me if I'm wrong.

He's got no authority to enact change, all the duties of 2-3 other people and can be cut at the next round (which is looming) if he pisses off any of the people demanding things from him, because this round there is no boss to go to bat for him.

If it's not the case, then yeah, lots of opportunity. Get in there, be the guy making decisions and find you've just gotten a new position. (Or at worst a whole new awesome experience section for your resume)

Everyone's stuff is the most important to them, but unless their job is to prioritize your workload, their opinion means nothing.

Unless they're better connected and can decide if you stay or go.  Yeah, their stupid home computer problem you told him to go to Geek Squad with has no bearing on day to day but you pissed that guy off and he's going to cut you to make up for his bruised ego and that round of cuts is all the excuse they need.  This happens, I've worked with some REALLY petty people before in some pretty strict hierarchies.

[Yegolev]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but IBM is somewhat more professional than smaller corporations so petty revenge can be manageable thanks to a bureaucracy and hopefully plenty of grey areas to assert power in.  There are, of course, right ways and wrong ways to do these things.  Subtlety, making moves within the framework, gathering key allies, etc.  You can't get into piss-fights; only attack from solid ground while your enemy is weak; if you make it all look like their fault, you are victorious.  But, no, you can't go around pissing off people.  Absolutely no reason to not be nice to everyone, at least on the surface.

I don't tell any PM that his project is now down on my list; everyone thinks they are at the top and delays are due to explainable forces.  Not that I ever explain myself to anyone, it just gives openings.  I'm super nice to everyone.  I help out people when they really need it, or at least give them warm assurances that I'm on their side and as soon as my hands are untied I'll be working under the table to help them.

God, people love to think you are working under the table or outside the bureaucracy to help them.  They lap it up.  Like a "tax free" sale, when normally no one would show up for a 7%-off sale.

Not delivering on promises is also super bad.  The solution here is simply to not promise things.  I commit to nothing that I cannot guarantee I'll do.  I won't even say "maybe" because people hear "It'll be on your desk in a week".

I'm not suggesting a organizational change so much as he start mobilizing himself, but you're saying that in your third line.  Anyone can be cut at any time so don't live your life in fear, and if a guy with the load of three people can be cut then all the more reason to try for moving into something better.  No, I don't know what that specifically means in this case.  Just watch Game of Thrones.

I can't really give any specific tips on playing The Game since I'm not in his situation, but there's a Game at IBM, I'll guarantee it.  My main advice here is to stop concentrating on a job, otherwise that's all he will have.  I figure he knows some of this already.

[Paelos]

Yeah if you're living in fear of keeping the job you have, you've already lost. There's no shame in finding something else at that point and starting over.

The bigger the company, the more bullshit exists.

My other piece of advice is think larger than the specific job. This is something average office drones never do. Example, I can ask a person who just did a tax return "How much money are they getting back?" More than half the time they can't tell me that answer even though they just got out of it. Why? Because they don't give a shit about the bottom line to that client. They only care about getting the numbers into the right places in the software, because that's their job. They are just checking boxes off a list. They never even bothered to check the big picture, compare it to the prior year, and then ask questions about any major changes.

If you start thinking big picture, it gets noticed really fast. Making notations about changes year-to-year, or processes that seem out of whack, or ways to streamline something cumbersome. Note, that doesn't mean BITCHING about a problem that you find, it means actually having a solution in hand to a particular issue.

[Viin]

The bigger the company, the more bullshit exists.

I don't actually agree with this. I think companies are like working with/in government: the smaller the company/government, the more petty the politics are. The stakes are low, so the squabbles are about even stupider crap.

[Lantyssa]

I think they're all crap.  The only saving grace is that sometimes larger companies can afford to hire smarter people.

[Merusk]

Reddit just got a $50m infusion of cash. The catch, every employee must move to San Fran. (Hey Sam, job openings ahoy!)

The comments thread is quite amusing.

Found it. Front page, on Alien Blue but not Reddit's site. How "Weird."
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2i4ap6/reddit_forces_remote_workers_to_move_to_san/

Wong's reasoning:
http://www.quora.com/Is-Reddit-closing-their-NYC-and-Salt-Lake-City-offices?share=1

I agree with him, but we've had this discussion before. Quick collaboration between three guys in NYC and Four in San Fran with a few in Denver doesn't work. The time differences alone fuck things up, never mind each keeping their own hours.  I know most of you disagree.

[Yegolev]

The bigger the company, the more bullshit exists.

I don't actually agree with this. I think companies are like working with/in government: the smaller the company/government, the more petty the politics are. The stakes are low, so the squabbles are about even stupider crap.

I agree with this completely.  I could speculate on the reasons, but it's a real effect.

I agree with him, but we've had this discussion before. Quick collaboration between three guys in NYC and Four in San Fran with a few in Denver doesn't work. The time differences alone fuck things up, never mind each keeping their own hours.  I know most of you disagree.

After working from home for fifteen months, I do agree with you.  Fortunately, I don't require constant collaboration in my job.  On the other hand, it's tough as shit to extract information from my coworkers when I need to learn a thing.  Basic shit like where to find inventories and work instructions for the account we are working.  Mentoring on, say, VCS and VxVM?  Even harder.  I figure some of this could be remedied by me visiting the Pontiac office where most of my team works from, but it's still tough to collaborate when everyone's watching Hulu instead of their Outlook inbox.

[Lantyssa]

I'm fully taking advantage of remotely working and I agree.  While I think there are things about office culture that could stand to change, a physical presence is generally better.

[Yegolev]

I'll go with "different" since some things are really better.  Which one is best for you will depend on several factors.  In my case, I'll put up with a lot of stuff to avoid driving into the ATL every day.

[Yegolev]

Also, happy "Gandhi Jayanathi" and "Ayutha Poojai" everyone.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I'm fully taking advantage of remotely working and I agree.  While I think there are things about office culture that could stand to change, a physical presence is generally better.

I'll go with "different" since some things are really better.  Which one is best for you will depend on several factors.  In my case, I'll put up with a lot of stuff to avoid driving into the ATL every day.

Agree with you both.  I worked at home for almost 4 years when I was with HP and while nothing beats working in your pajamas on days I didn't feel like getting dressed (or had a freaking 6am con call with Europe), I was glad to get back to an office environment and deal with actual real people every day.  Downsides are always commuting and putting up with office bullshit, upside is not feeling trapped in my office.

On the husband front - he got a call back from the most recent bank he interviewed at, the one that told him they needed to post a job internally first.  It's him and another candidate they just found at a job fair, so he'll know by next Tuesday if he's got the position.  Hopefully it'll be him they choose, even if it'll be a huge cut in pay.  Compared to the nothing he's making right now though...

[HaemishM]

Face-to-face meeting collaboration is bullshit. My personal productivity when I work from is the same as it is as work - i.e. if I have work, it gets done. There are very rare cases where yes, I need to be in the same room with people but for the most part, there are no times where I simply cannot do my work if I'm not in the same room with other people except in the rare occasions that those people don't goddamn tell me what it is they want from me in a clear way without me pointing to the goddamn thing they want changed on the screen. That's a problem with their communication and visualization skills, not my goddamn work habits or location. I'm not saying everyone can work remotely but "being in the office" is not even close to being a necessity for productive work. Especially not "be in the office for 8 hours regardless of how much or how little work we've given you to do."

[Nebu]

Face-to-face is best when you really need to tap the person's expertise.  Beyond that, it just interferes with their productivity.

[Viin]

Depends on the work. If you are heads down coding or writing or some such, sure, working at home is fine. But if you have to do a lot of collaboration (ie: work with other people) nothing beats being in the same room/office as them.

[Signe]

Did you guys ever look at Angelist?  I only know it because someone I know uses it when he starts up a company.  There's a section where these startups list their available jobs.  Some of them look really interesting and even cool.  There was one company named Bark something or other that sends your doggie a fun crate every month!!  I love that one.  Srsly, though, there are some nice sounding jobs and if you've never been involved with a start up, it could be fun.  It's techie jobs, of course, or I'd go work for Bark Something or Other (when they finally start posting jobs).  I don't know why some of you who are looking for something else don't pay attention to Cloud Helix, despite it's wonky name, because that company is going to explode in a good way.  If I was even the least bit techie, I'd go for it.  The only language I can code in is LPC.  Some one should pay me to write a MUD, amirite?

Anyway, I hope everyone gets lovely jobs that will make them happy.  I know that's not easy.

[Paelos]

Face-to-face is best when you really need to tap the person's expertise.  Beyond that, it just interferes with their productivity.

There really isn't a catch all philosophy to remote working. It's probably the biggest example of case-by-case basis in the business world, for many reasons.

[01101010]

Face-to-face is best when you really need to tap the person's expertise.  Beyond that, it just interferes with their productivity.

There really isn't a catch all philosophy to remote working. It's probably the biggest example of case-by-case basis in the business world, for many reasons.

Which means you can't broadly come to conclusions about it because of the variability. But at least if the person is in the office, you know they are there and "working."

[Yegolev]

Mostly it means that I'll be pretending to work during the slack times instead of folding laundry or doing dishes.

[HaemishM]

Mostly it means that I'll be pretending to work during the slack times instead of folding laundry or doing dishes.

This. Presence in the office in no way translates to "that person is working."

[Chimpy]

Unfortunately, in many cases "working from home" is even worse.

The perfect solution is likely a mix of the two.