Is it too late?

[Slayerik]

In my horrible opinion, and this is if played well

Garen = Very Good , Like seeing him on my team
Kayle = Good , always glad to have one
Lux = P. Good, makes me nervous though
Miss Fortune = Very Good, she rapes
Pantheon = Good, like having death from above on my team
Poppy = Decent, I don't hate her
Sona = P. Good, glad to see her supporting
Soraka = Okay, I just don't like her that much
Tristana = Good, Carry away lil one!
Zilean = Okay, I hope the player is good.

[Thrawn]

My 2 cents are mostly in line with Slays.

Garen - Still very good, if he gets too farmed you just can't kill him. "Lol, I built tank items and just ulted you for 600 damage."
Kayle - A solid support that can throw out some damage.  But usually only want her if she has a good target to ult. (Twitch or Kog for example).  If all you do is ult youself you're doing it wrong.
Lux - She's decent, has a good skill set, a ranged stun and can do fun stuff with ult.  But she is support, not a mage nuke/carry.
Miss Fortune - Been nerfed a lot but still a solid carry.  Not a big fan personaly just due to lack of good escapes if you get focused.
Pantheron - Super all star pub stomper currently.  Summoner spells that require you to DIE to use are not good.
Poppy - Can tower dive like a champ and put out some good AP damage.
Sona - Queen of the nefs recently but still a very good support that almost wins games on her own.
Soraka - Many people say she's terrible lately, I think she's still solid support especially if you use the silence well.  Sona is probably just straight better though and the later the game goes the less Soraka matters.
Tristana - Great carry, pretty much no bad points.  Take a solo always, farm like a champ, win.
Zilean - He's decent supprt, but you need to make sure you are ulting the correct person and nine times out of ten that is not yourself.

Again, just my opinions and mostly in line with Slays.  I hope Hoax posts, I look forward to lots of "FUCK Garen" and "Fuck him/her, I dodge them at champ select".

[Hoax]

Ok, so the champions I own now are:

Garen -- He doesn't help gank, he doesn't support.  You will need to invest some time in learning him if you want him to perform and he's basically a selfish pubstomper at your level who hides in bushes, rapes dumb noobs and can become an unkillable beast who can steal all the kills with his ult.  If you want to pile up wins fast I would highly recommend watching/reading some guides on Garen and learning how to exploit the badness of opposing players who don't buy wards don't use clairvoyance and take squishy champs without being good enough to stay out of trouble.  Also kill some Teemos for me.  The one warning is, if Riot does decide to nerf all the tanky dps champs then Garen will probably get smacked down a bit.

Kayle -- She does what you say you want to do, in spades.  She's also quite easy to pick up (learn to self cast for her heal, you can bind it under options) but there isn't much to master and she's fairly boring to play.  There's only one build worth using in my opinion and it goes Dring > Rageblade > done.  I wouldn't enjoy playing Kayle solo queue but I think some f13'ers like to run Twitch so I would learn her so that you have a pocket Kayle for if you duo queue with someone playing a carry that likes being invuln'd (they all do).

Lux -- She does what you say you want to do, but unlike Kayle she's got a very high learning curve a much higher micro skill ceiling and she's much more interesting to build and fun to play.  She also will get blamed for loses and if she gets off the pace on xp/farm she will quickly do zero damage and have almost no impact in fights.  Your chance of frustration might be high with Lux but if she clicks with your playstyle I think you'll be a rare sight.

Miss Fortune -- A pure carry with no hard cc and no escape.  This is a team protect the carry's carry and I would not want to play that if I was playing with low skill players.  Stay away.

Pantheon -- Did you miss the 3 days where he was once again the undisputed best pubstomp champ in the game?  He got hotfixed.  He's still pretty epic for a pubstomping bads who think towers will protect them and other quaint noob notions.  I would recommend Garen over Panth but either one will net you a shitton of wins if your actually better than your teammates and opposition.  Panth will also turn you into a dick, but while Garen players are dicks but they are usually funny about it Panth players are just the fucking worst.  One more thing, so help me if I hear about you trying this awesome revive panth build you saw on leaguecraft I'll fucking reach through the internet and bitch slap you.

Poppy -- Fuck Poppy. I hate this champ's VA and I hate her creepy man pedo laugh.  Fucking Poppy just gives me the creeps.  As for the champ herself.  I can't see any reason for you to play her.  I'd go into it but really, what the fuck did you buy this nasty fugly champ for?  She's an assassin but who cares, the carries are playing so poorly at your level that its not hard to get to them and blow them up right?  You know there is a fucking female ninja who does Poppy's job in a less one dimensional and more interesting way right?  You know who else is an assassin and has a Cthulu skin?  Fucking Kass.  Fuck Poppy, she's trash in the lane and requires a babysitter and a bad opposing lane combo and once she has all of that she still doesn't turn into a carry when fed the way other assassin champs can.  Yes Q hits hard.  Grats on that, lets move on.  

Sona -- don't bother playing pure support when you are playing with bads.

Soraka -- don't bother playing pure support who is probably still not as good as Sona after all those nerfs when you are playing with bads.

Tristana -- Now we are talking, learn Trist not MF. Trist might be straight up better at this point and she's more learning friendly and can do cooler tricks.

Zilean -- Zil is trash.  Honestly I just do not think highly of this champ.  Specialists exist with him but frankly I dodge Zils he's too squishy and every time a Zil ults himself I fucking hit my roommate's cat.

recap time.

LEARN FOR SURE:  Trist (every LoL player should have a pocket Ashe or a pocket Trist so they can carry w/ a 5th pick in draft), Kayle (will take 8 games tops)

IF YOU CANT GET FREE WINS W/ THIS YOU PROBABLY ARENT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK YOU ARE:  Garen, Panth (if you want to be a fucking shithead)

TRY ME: Lux

STAY THE FUCK AWAY: Zil, Sona, Soraka, MF

I'M A UGLY CREEPER SHEMALE: Poppy

[Thrawn]

Huh, Panth got hotfix patched?  What did they do? Was he bugged or just op after a patch?

[Slayerik]

New game: Pick a champ besides Singed for me to play. No tanks or healers. I prefer to not be horrible at two different champs now :) Ready.... GO!

[Thrawn]

I seem to remember you played a decent Cho as well?

[Chimpy]

I seem to remember you played a decent Cho as well?

He said no tanks.

As to what to try, hmm.

You should find an annoying champ to play.

[Slayerik]

Yeah, I did but like Singed over him.

[Astorax]

New game: Pick a champ besides Singed for me to play. No tanks or healers. I prefer to not be horrible at two different champs now :) Ready.... GO!

I say go something that requires map awareness.  On top of having a 2nd character that you don't suck with, it'll for sure improve your overall play as well cause you have to pay attention to the map so much more.  Like, pantheon, soraka, tf, ez, shen (I know you said no tank, but shen's fun).  Basically, any champ where you have an ability that can be used anywhere on the map. :D

[Hoax]

I think you should probably learn to jungle since you are a very specialist type player.  That said I don't think most junglers really suit you.

My top5 try it you just might like it for Slay:
-Vlad, I think this is the pick. He's strong, he can carry, he's AP, his strongest effect is psychological damage on the enemy carry.
-Udyr, can be made unkillable plays like Singed but does not get to roll in majai stacks and carry a latelate game. Jungles like a boss.
-Kennen, I don't think you'll like him but his jump into a fight and blow everything up + setups + can carry + does tend to annoy people makes him my 5th pick.  But I'm putting him third because I hate these next two champs.
-Mordkaiser, I fucking hate this champ, I think he's the most poorly designed out of the entire lineup.  But, he's not a tank he's a carry eating push monster who will just reach a farm level where he can no longer be ignored or killed a pro mordkaiser just gets to that farm level faster and against more difficult matchups.
-Trynd, I hate to tell anyone to play Trynd since Trynd is ass and he makes people play stupid.  But so does Singed so I guess I have to throw him out here, if you can learn to not die AND get kills he will win pretty much any game that goes past the 30min mark.

others receiving consideration:
Jax, Mundo, Olaf, Amumu, Xin and Nidalee.

[Slayerik]

I actually did give Kennen a try over about 8 games, and got ok with him but he just didn't quite 'do it' for me.

Udyr might be the one. He's pissed me off enough times...and I would like to learn a jungler....

Vlad might be a good choice as well. Thanks for the input Hoax.

[Typhon]

Olaf is fun to play if you like being able to give a big ole F!U! to CC champs, take a hit, and dish out some pain.  He's very good in the jungle.  He can harass in the laning phase (different build than jungle Olaf).

He has a Brolaf skin.  With this skin Olaf Brolaf says (among other things), "Dude, I'm kind of a BIG DEAL", "Chug! Chug!", "I'm Broseidan, lord of the Brocean", "You can't arrest me, my DAD owns a dealership!", "KA-BLOOOIE!!!/"KA-BOOM!!!" (when using Reckless Strikes (E) ) and "You got that, Bro?". 

He has TWO collars!  TWO!  And a beer hat, with two beers!  GRAGGY ICE!

Even if you are getting your ass kicked, you're still having fun!

BROMACIA!!!! (he says that as well)

[Thrawn]

Olaf seems a good Slay fit actually.

[Nightblade]

Don't mean to thread hijack, but do people bitch at you for playing Jungle Udyr like they do for playing Jungle Warwick?

[Thrawn]

Don't mean to thread hijack, but do people bitch at you for playing Jungle Udyr like they do for playing Jungle Warwick?

Huh?  if you don't play Udyr or Warwick in the jungle you are wrong, it's not even really a topic to be argued.  It's just a fact.

[Nightblade]

Don't mean to thread hijack, but do people bitch at you for playing Jungle Udyr like they do for playing Jungle Warwick?

Huh?  if you don't play Udyr or Warwick in the jungle you are wrong, it's not even really a topic to be argued.  It's just a fact.

No, what I meant is that sometimes I pick Warwick and I get some pissing and moaning about how Warwick sucks.

[Thrawn]

No, what I meant is that sometimes I pick Warwick and I get some pissing and moaning about how Warwick sucks.

They are also wrong, I don't think anyone here would debate Warwick is anything less then a top tier character that is possibly the best jungler in the game and a fantastic ganker.  I've been playing WW a lot more in ranked lately and my rating is higher then it's ever been by about 100 points, get your ganks, control your buffs and CONTROL DRAGON to win.

[Strazos]

When do I get to play with good people? /cry

Buddy and I had our lane locked down in 2 games, one as (me/him) Taric/Veigar (lol stunlock), other as Kayle/Morgana...while people are getting fed in other lanes.

Also, I like Taric and will buy him if I can get the points fast-ish; just spent $10 on some stuff, and don't feel like spending more just to get Taric. Also, I think I built him wrong by buying the suggested items - my damage was shit. Probably didn't help that my team was light on the AD so his ult was less useful.

I seriously need folks to play with so I can 1) not get so fucking rolled due to people feeding or FUCKING PLAYING MINECRAFT, and 2) so I can suck less. I think I play alright, but not much I can do when my team is braindead.

Appreciate the comments. I like Poppy, and can normally win with her (probably luck), and her purchase price fit perfectly in the amount of RP I had at the time (had 5 points leftover afterwards). I find I really like Lux and Taric for the "lolz, lockdown" factor, Lux indeed has a very high ceiling with her skillshots. I was doing some pretty cool shit (but probably very simple in the grand scheme of things) with Tristana, like rocket jumping over trees and other such nonsense (note: I felt bad how easy she was to play).

Also, what is this revive Pantheon build you speak of?

EDIT: Almost forgot - Karthus is a cheap no-skill piece of shit that should die in a car fire.

[Hoax]

Sometimes the best thing you can do if you have your lane locked down is switch lanes.

If you've denied and mindfucked and hopefully killed an opponent in the lane to the point where he's playing really scared at tower and your getting free farm switch if you have a teammate in the same situation as your hapless foe in the other lane.  The next time said teammate dies retardedly, tell him to take your spot and move across, don't forget to try to help mid get a little damage on his opponent but don't take his exp.

If you really do think your better, play Garen, Pantheon or Trist.  If you truly are much better you will carry games to wins.  Panth and Trist are especially good choices as they can take the 1v1 mid match up.  From there you can win the most important match in the game assuming its a classic carry duel and you can also help both lanes if they are struggling.  Having a Kayle, Taric or Lux will be nice but when you really just want to win a game you need to be able to break out your best champ and you need it to be one that can win the game on its own.

No, what I meant is that sometimes I pick Warwick and I get some pissing and moaning about how Warwick sucks.

Every once in awhile I am reminded of how the matchmaking system really does create entirely separate worlds of game experience.

This is flat out crazytalk, ignore them, get every dragon, watch them win despite themselves.

I think that junglers can actually carry a bad team to victory despite their best efforts more than anyone else.  You make sure your team has map control, you start all the ganks (bads will typically just sit in their lane on autopilot) and dragon nets a huge global exp/gold boost to your team so even if they are dying if they aren't flat out feeding they will often pull ahead.  If you are really on point from the jungle you will quickly raise your rating.

[Chimpy]

Also, I like Taric and will buy him if I can get the points fast-ish; just spent $10 on some stuff, and don't feel like spending more just to get Taric. Also, I think I built him wrong by buying the suggested items - my damage was shit. Probably didn't help that my team was light on the AD so his ult was less useful.

Taric is really not about the damage (outside of shatter which is where his damage is really at) unless you build him specifically for it. The suggested items on him are all good when you do the support role overall. I usually build lately when I am full on support: Brown Boots + 2 heal pots -> Chalice -> Spirit Visage (this is a great item for Taric: Health, MR, cd reduction, and increased heal to self and it is cheap at 1235) -> Soul Shroud -> Finish Merc Treads (though sometimes I do this earlier depending on how the money for other parts goes/if I am getting stunned/slowed a lot). If I am at that point and having tons of money I will buy a turtleshell thing that gives extra gold and get a Randuin's Omen. Lately I have been changing from my usual build to adding in more AP items, but the recommended items with Spirit Visage instead of Frozen Heart (and a lot earlier) is really good in low level games.

His ult is not really about the increase in damage for team mates (though it helps) it is about increasing his survivability well beyond what someone with his comparatively small health pool is usually expected to survive. Pop it right before you initiate a team fight (if you are said initiator) and are going to get stunned and if you have clarity time its use to when you are almost out of mana from his ult. Also, learn to time shatter. Seriously, it is not about the armor aura (which is good, mind you) it is about the instant burst damage. Wade into a team fight with a couple enemy champs that are really low and BOOM you are a kill stealing bastard :D

Shatter is your friend. Make sure that is what you are leveling it over everything except his ult when you level. Then his heal. 1 point in the stun is fine for a long while.

[Samprimary]

Jungling tier lists are funny. I propose my own tier list:

Tier warwick: Warwick

Tier 1: Udyr, Rammus, Nunu, Gragas, Olaf, Malphite, Shen, Shaco

Tier 2: Yi, Xin Zhao, Amumu, Fiddlesticks, Mundo, Irelia, Trundle, Sion, Morde, Singed, Akali

Trash tier: pretty much everyone else

[Nightblade]

Thanks for the response, I fired up the game for the first time in awhile; threw on a new build and starting using flash instead of ignite. First game, I tossed a ward on dragon; and despite the inane bragging of the opposing team of their great "timing" I popped flash through a wall, killed the warwick while he was getting the dragon, and finished it off for my team... Then our team proceeded to lose spectacularly.

Next game we won despite being 4 v 5 for most of it due to a chain disconnecting guy.

The last guys who bitched about Warwick complained that Amumu was a better jungler, and that I would "heh, learn when you reach a higher ELO" (I'm level 23 and I play random non ranked matches...). The guy who said this proceeded to select Garen and bitched non stop the entire game.

[Strazos]

But seriously, when can I has friends? I don't mind playing pocket support, especially when I get to sit back and watch people die while stunned, or pull people from the jaws of death with a timely heal/invuln/etc.

[tazelbain]

It seems to me that rammus isn't very good at jungling since a single ward on golem at the start completely fucks hims.

[Strazos]

So...Tristana is a complete monster once she gets going. Lucky I don't normally need to figure it out, but how do you counter her? Stunlock or high armor?

[Kail]

But seriously, when can I has friends?

I don't think there's any regular F13 team or anything like that.  Or, if there is, I don't know  who's on it.

Other than that, there's really not much to do groupwise before hitting level 30.  My brother's stuck at twentysomething, and we can't really play together without him getting tossed to the sharks by the matchmaker.

[Chimpy]

So...Tristana is a complete monster once she gets going. Lucky I don't normally need to figure it out, but how do you counter her? Stunlock or high armor?

She is easy to harass early if you are a caster with a ranged targetable attack (Zilean's bomb being a prime example) because her range is really short early and pretty much any other ranged character or caster can hit her when she cannot hit them. Basically you need to be aware of where she is and where her rocket jump can land her either from her using it to escape or using it to preface her ult shooting you into a gank/tower. Keeping her from getting minion kills early by harassing her will help avoid the pain later.

[Der Helm]

But seriously, when can I has friends?

I don't think there's any regular F13 team or anything like that. 

True (afaik).

Nonetheless, I added you as a friend before i left to work. At least I think I did.

[Slayerik]

I found it helped me to simply add friends after you have a match with someone, and you felt you played well with them. From there I have met a couple groups of players that were on vent and quite cool. Message people after matches and see if they wanna duo Q. If you played decent, you might just get invited into their current group and VIOLA you are having fun.

Other than that, f13 peeps seem to be pretty miss on the hit or miss scale of activity. Me included.

[Samprimary]

I'm on, I'm just running usually with groups of friends irl. I should be more outgoing!

[Phry]

I play most nights, never seen another f13 on at the same time though

[Thrawn]

I don't play much right now with full time school + full time work.  But will be more available for the next month or so.  Its normaly easier to grab me on Steam or something then in game.  I may whine if everyone playing isn't on some voice chat though.  

But I may tug up your game level a bit more then you'd like if you're one of our newer players. (I'm not uber awsome or anything, just have tons of games played). But on the flip side I may have an easy time carrying then too...

[Hoax]

But seriously, when can I has friends? I don't mind playing pocket support, especially when I get to sit back and watch people die while stunned, or pull people from the jaws of death with a timely heal/invuln/etc.

You want to add some people as you play with them from there you will find people on your level and can organically develop a play group.  Its not that enjoyable trying to force people who have been playing one version of the game to get on your level.

Its still really really early for you though if I'm understanding properly. Friend the best people who come across and duo queue with them while you work your way to 30 and l2p a bit more.  Focus on one of the champs I recommended, especially Trist and you'll get there pretty quick if you are above average.

[Ashamanchill]

So me and my friends have basically wrapped up playing this game until they delete Garen. I am sick of seeing him in every single match, for and against, and I am beyond sick of him tower diving me as soon as he hits level six. And that is only the timid Garens. Pro-Active Garens tower dive at level 4.

I know I sound like a whiny grump, and fair enough, but seriously fuck this character. I am not doing anything until they nerf one of the following:

His insane laning capacity via his passive health regen.

His lack of resource to manage which gives him he option of never returning from a lane.

His defensive moves which exist coeval with his retardedly damaging offensive move (SPIN TO WIN!!!).

This character is broken IMO. Honestly, why pick any tank over him other than flavour (or a lust for gimping yourself).

[Strazos]

His regen is easy to counter with good harass.