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Author Topic: Champ Tech  (Read 2929 times)
Hoax
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Posts: 7652

l33t kiddie


on: August 11, 2010, 01:42:32 AM

Starting a new thread, hopefully we can gather some champ info here especially with the newer guys and the remakes.

Made the thread because I don't quite get Vlad. Clearly he has the tools to be good with his amazing farming and ability to tank to hell and back without gimping his damage output completely thanks to the passive. But what the fuck is the best way to do that?

I'm struggling with where exactly his damage is supposed to come from, for me it feels like Q is great burst, E is hard to calculate, W does some damage but the aoe slow + dodge certain shit is what makes it money and the R I haven't decided how to use yet.

So that said getting the most out of the very spammable at rank5 Q ability while tanking and generally making myself into a big pain in the ass seems to be the best he can hope for come team fights.

Items I've been looking at:
Aegis
Rylai's
Warmogs
Haunting Guise
Randuin's Omen
Sunfire Cape
Soul Shroud
Guardian Angel
Spirit Visage
Abyssal Scepter
Void Staff
Will of the Ancients
Zhonya's Ring
Deathfire Grasp

But what is worth going for?

I really like the Randuin's giving him a second slow, for additional escape and control to protect your team's dps. But beyond that I'm at a loss. I prefer HP to AP since you gain bonus AP faster and I really think his role is more in the tank/protect/distract than the do lots of damage quickly, willing to believe I'm wrong about that but the Vlad's I've seen that try to build AP as their primary stat have been some of the easiest kills ever.

I haven't really looked at or thought about spell vamp, but stacking that with his abilities health gain might allow you to go lighter on the hp? Pure theorycrafting there, no fucking idea as I never ever play casters so their items aren't very familiar to me.

Anyone else toying w/ him this week?  
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 01:44:15 AM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Der Helm
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Posts: 4013


Reply #1 on: August 11, 2010, 06:41:28 AM

I picked him up too, fun to play, but I am still refining my build. I too think that +hp is the way to go, 4,5k health is fun.

I try to keep 4 stacks of "E" when i am engaging the enemy, slow and drain them with "w" and finish stragglers with "q".

Keep in mind that bonus health means bonus damage for "w" and that stacks of "e" mean more oomph for your drains.

So far I leveled q,e,w,q,w,r then r>q>w>e

I find R to be a nice opener, if your team knows what is coming, the time bomb effect is good for picking of the last remaining enemies and make people who ran away with 300 health or less ragequit. (like a mini-Karthus)

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Typhon
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Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 12:04:07 PM

[...]
I haven't really looked at or thought about spell vamp, but stacking that with his abilities health gain might allow you to go lighter on the hp? Pure theorycrafting there, no fucking idea as I never ever play casters so their items aren't very familiar to me.

Anyone else toying w/ him this week?  


I think spell vamp should to be a part of the build because you burn through so much health with W and you are casting for all your damage (and all your casting uses health).

I think that his real power is that you can switch what he is based upon what you need, but always stick to the core of health in the early-mid game.  I.e., if you are getting pounded, keep buying health (MR).  If you are already doing well, buy an(other) AP + Spell Vamp item (and that is still giving you more health).

I do think the core has to be big health given how much you burn through.
Der Helm
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Posts: 4013


Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 01:42:16 PM


I think spell vamp should to be a part of the build because you burn through so much health with W and you are casting for all your damage (and all your casting uses health).
W also gives you health from the affected enemies (15% of the damage ?) With a few stacks of E I usually lose only a few % of my hp, if I am low, I sometimes come out ahead.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Kail
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Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 11:19:46 PM

Finally got a chance to try him out; he's a farming monster.

Mostly, I'm building him health/AP for his passive, so it's kind of like an AP Kennen build.  Something like Doran's Shield, Giant's Belt -> Rylai's, Ruby -> Haunting Guise, plus whatever shoes you need (probably Mercs).  After that, I dunno, probably something like Randuin's Omen if I'm going tank.

I dunno about itemizing spell vamp on him.  I think vamp has a penalty for AoE attacks, which means that only your Q is going to be hitting optimally with it, and only for 15% on an attack that already returns at least 25% of it.  In a long enough game, though, Will of Ancients looks like it would work well if you've got other casters who would benefit from the aura.
Hoax
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Posts: 7652

l33t kiddie


Reply #5 on: August 13, 2010, 12:57:21 AM

So what I'm hearing is, max the e stacks before you w (obvious enough).

Spell Vamp I'm not sold for or against because there really isn't a ton of itemization for it atm. Basically WotAncients and that's it for him. I'm not a huge fan of a Doran's item or Haunting Guise on him because neither build into anything and he farms so damn hard mid to late game that you should be able to build big things.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Typhon
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Posts: 2388


Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 05:10:49 PM

I honestly thought there were more options for spell vamp as well.  I still think it has a place in the build-out (actually, to your point, I think WotAncients has a place).

I've never broken it down like this before, I usually just "sort of" know what I'm going to buy in the game and based upon how frustrated I am with how I'm currently doing I'll go early/late to buy more items.  Here's a beakdown that I think makes decent sense (numbers are gold):

Initial Buy
Ruby Crystal (475)

1rst return, need 1325
Boots of Speed (350) (Sorc or Mercury Boots)
Heart of Gold (975)

2nd return, need 2100
Warden's Mail (1350)
Sorc or Mercury Boots (750 - assuming most expensive)

3rd Return, need 2130
Randuins (600)
HexTech Revolver (765)
Will of the Ancients (765)

4th (if game goes that long)
Rylai's (3105) or Warmog's (3135)

With Vlad's bonuses to health and AP just Randuin's and WotAncients give:
440 health
25 health regen/5
82 AP
90 Armor
15% Spell Vamp
15% cooldown reduction

for 4890 gold.  It's not a massive amount of health, but your main three attacks are all generating health flow back.  Seems like it would be pretty powerful especially since Vlad has the safety of the blood pool
Astorax
Contributor
Posts: 154


Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 07:32:15 PM

The problem I have with spell vamp on him, is that you actually get more out of just going straight ability power or health, and relying on the absurdly short cooldown on your Q ability...cause it is, with just a little cooldown, you can almost spam Q...it's absurd.

I run red magic pen, blue and yellow cooldown, and cooldown quints and I think my Q is on a 3 second cooldown at max level?  I'd have to check, I just know I can virtually spam it late game.

For items, depends...

I'll always start with red health gem first

If we're doing well, I'll immediately go leviathan first item.  Vlad's so hard to kill, you can keep your stacks really easily, and the extra health translates really well to AP.  Then I'll go rylai's so no one can get away.

If we're NOT doing really well, I'll rush rylai's.

From there generally I just go defensive items, Omen is awesome, guardian's is nice to help hold onto leviathan stacks, etc.
Typhon
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Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 11:41:26 PM

Well I tried it, and it sucked.

As you all tried to tell me, going straight up health (I like Warmogs to start, but Leviathan makes sense as well) and Rylai's if/when you have cash to burn just works much better.
LK
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Reply #9 on: August 15, 2010, 07:51:40 PM

His cooldown is already 3 seconds at max. It goes down to 1.8 with max cooldown, but you're better off not stacking so much cooldown.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Der Helm
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Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 10:37:01 PM

I had a few really good games with using Leviathan and Soulstealer. Once I got full stacks of both, I was running around with 5,5k health.

1) Ruby Chrystal
2) Amp. Tome
3)
a)upgrade to Leviathan and Soulstealer (If you are getting kills)
b) (Sorcerer) Boots (if you are not sure)
4) Rylais'
5)Zenya's
6)Warmorg's

You can still upgrade 1+2 into haunting guise if things are not running smoothly and switch to a less risky build without much hassle.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
LK
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Reply #11 on: August 15, 2010, 10:56:51 PM

I just see Rylai's as too critical for him to ignore.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Astorax
Contributor
Posts: 154


Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 02:07:52 PM

I just see Rylai's as too critical for him to ignore.

/agree

Don't skip rylai's...ever...

Soulstealer is pretty good, but honestly, you don't HAVE to nuke that hard to do what you do.  And yeah, sorry, checked time and with just my runes and masteries, I have a 2.1s Q.  With that and Rylai's, you have zero problems running people down and/or getting away.

Generally my build order is:

1) red crystal
2) boots
3) leviathan
4) sorc boots
5) rylai's (get belt first, then AP items)
6) profit...

if the game is still going long, thenit kinda depends...

if you're getting plenty of kills, go majai's, but even still, it's kinda overkill...if they're a magic heavy team, I'll go ahead and nab an abyssal scepter (void staff if they're stacking MR).  Guardian's is always a good time too since it helps to hold onto stacks since it makes you really hard to finally kill.
Der Helm
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Posts: 4013


Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 04:05:42 PM

I just see Rylai's as too critical for him to ignore.
Not sure if you are replying to me, as I got it in my build.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Astorax
Contributor
Posts: 154


Reply #14 on: August 16, 2010, 07:24:09 PM

I just see Rylai's as too critical for him to ignore.
Not sure if you are replying to me, as I got it in my build.
Pretty sure that was respondin to Typhon's "If/when" comment about Rylai's...Rylai isn't an if...it's a when. :)
Typhon
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Posts: 2388


Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 08:03:24 AM

I've had a lot of luck rushing Warmog's, haven't tried rushing Rylai's yet.  Will do that next.
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