How the Game Has Changed

[Chimpy]

Three sunders before you dps god dammit!

You must have played on Alliance.

[Vision]

I would have pit stains down to my waist after tanking Zul'Gurub. I wanted that raptor mount so fucking bad back in the glory days. 

[brellium]

Three sunders before you dps god dammit!

I didn't care for sunders, I just waited 10 seconds, and I could still pull aggro off a tank with no problem, five consecutive frostbolt crits could do that in TBC.  Which happened every fucking time I ran Gruul, even in fucking blues.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I didn't care for sunders, I just waited 10 seconds, and I could still pull aggro off a tank with no problem

and this is why you waited for sunders. sometimes the tank wasn't sundering immediately and it could take more than 10seconds to gain an aggro hold.(also i played horde in vanilla so no pally blessings)

The real lesson is, you dps when the tank says you can dps, or you can pull aggro and die.

[Morat20]

Three sunders before you dps god dammit!

I didn't care for sunders, I just waited 10 seconds, and I could still pull aggro off a tank with no problem, five consecutive frostbolt crits could do that in TBC.  Which happened every fucking time I ran Gruul, even in fucking blues.

As I've geared up in WoTLK -- and this is still pre-80, just replacing a random assortment of quested greens for decent blues from dungeons -- I've had to suddenly start paying attention lest I yank aggro off the tank. (Really started when I snagged a snazzy bow that was a giant upgrade. Of course, my bow skill was 1/380 at the time, so I had to go shoot at deer for awhile).

We were doing...I dunno, some thing full of dwarves and golems and shit. (Got me a new cape and new chest). I had Viper up and was having to watch be careful to pace out bestial wrath, kill command, and my trinkets lest I generate too much aggro, although that's generally when the tank was corralling multiple targets. On a boss, not as much of a problem yet.

I haven't had any bad tanks -- mostly just remembering I can't always spam my max DPS now that my gear is reaching parity with everyone else's.

[Paelos]

I've noticed that when you stop looking for upgrades as a tank, you can get easily rushed by dps who have expanded into the next tier. For example, in 10 man regular raids, I'll get pressured by our resident druid who is sitting on 7 items that are 264 or better. At that point, we're way overgearing the instance (even I have nothing to gain there), but the difference does become apparent when he goes all out and I can't relax until 3-4 minutes in a fight.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If only hunters had a way to drop a lot of aggro all at once, or even transfer it to others....that'd be something wouldn't it?

[Morat20]

If only hunters had a way to drop a lot of aggro all at once, or even transfer it to others....that'd be something wouldn't it?

I do that. :) Admittedly, I don't bother with misdirection unless it's on bosses (I'm not Marksman, so I don't have a lot of high-damage openers) and rarely then. I'm new to these instances, so I don't do pulls either, so misdirection is mainly a waste of mana.

I FD if I grab aggro, but I don't see any reason to blow my cooldowns, grab aggro, then FD when I can just space them out and get pretty much the same DPS by being a little more careful.

And I continue to work under my belief that, as a pet class, part of my job is to have said pet get any wandering mobs off the healer. Which reminds me, I should start taking my turtle into instances with me, get him up to my level.

I do love the "growl on/growl off" dance I have to do if I need to suddenly yank aggro off a mage or priest. :)

[Fordel]

Three sunders before you dps god dammit!

I didn't care for sunders, I just waited 10 seconds, and I could still pull aggro off a tank with no problem, five consecutive frostbolt crits could do that in TBC.  Which happened every fucking time I ran Gruul, even in fucking blues.

In TBC, my Moonkin just tanked whatever aggro I snagged. I miss that armor bonus :(

[Selby]

I've noticed that when you stop looking for upgrades as a tank, you can get easily rushed by dps who have expanded into the next tier. For example, in 10 man regular raids, I'll get pressured by our resident druid who is sitting on 7 items that are 264 or better. At that point, we're way overgearing the instance (even I have nothing to gain there), but the difference does become apparent when he goes all out and I can't relax until 3-4 minutes in a fight.

As far as I am concerned, regardless of gear level DPS needs to lrn2omen.  If they can't be bothered to watch their threat and continue to pull mobs, that is their problem.  My warrior has more trouble with it than my DK, but in the end, if someone starts AoEing before the tank has even gotten to the mobs and pulls aggro, I really don't care.  If someone is going all out without some sort of threat reducer, if they wipe us over it or get killed, we tell them to shape up or they get benched.  Since we're doing heroics now it's pretty much a given that people need to be more in tune with what is going on and watch it.

[Ingmar]

To be totally fair Omen is worthless on multitarget fights.

[Fordel]

There are nameplate mods that will make said nameplate super huge on any mob you don't have threat on in a AE pack.

[Ingmar]

Well sure, but that doesn't help the stupid moonkin not pull in the first place.

[Lt.Dan]

Well sure, but that doesn't help the stupid moonkin not pull in the first place.

Totally unrelated, but your avatar is just screaming "kill me for my +2 dagger".

On topic I'm really loving levelling my old, old, old Enhance Shaman.  Login, sign-up in the random dungeon, run a few quests until the dungeon invite pops up, then run a dungeon.  I never got to see a lot of the original dungeons and it's been pretty fun.  Nice variety in dungeons and encounters and waaay better than cajoling people in /1 to run an instance.

Of course once you hit mid 60s you get bloody sick of Auchenai Crypts and in the late 60s you'll get stabby with Halls of Stone but refreshing running old school stuff right now.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I leveled up a rogue recently (well, he's 68, but go with me here) and it was fun doing the old dungeons. Until I hit Blackrock Depths with a series of groups who REALLY REALLY wanted to do the whole thing. Sometimes I want to just kill the one boss guy I'm supposed to kill and leave, people! But on the whole it was a nice change.

[Merusk]

Nice variety in dungeons and encounters and waaay better than cajoling people in /1 to run an instance.

Of course once you hit mid 60s you get bloody sick of Auchenai Crypts and in the late 60s you'll get stabby with Halls of Stone but refreshing running old school stuff right now.

I had the same problem in the late 40s/ early 50s on my resto shaman.  Too high for Mauradon to pop a lot but too low for anything but constant Sunken Temple runs.  After the 5th one in 2 days you decide to just not do it anymore until you're closer to 55.

[Fordel]

Well sure, but that doesn't help the stupid moonkin not pull in the first place.

It helps the shitty warrior sunder harder though! 

[dd0029]

HP is the thing I really noticed on my most recent return.  As I said in another thread, I just hit 80 on my hunter.  The last I was playing was just when ICC opened and that was after a break from when Ulduar opened.  Each time, I've been shocked at tank HP inflation.  When I left the first time when Ulduar opened 30k hp was an adequately geared raid tank.  Now, 50k hp tanks are not uncommon.  I can recall when our MT warrior commented once in Vanilla how he was impressed that he finally crossed 10k hp, buffed, flasked, elixer'd, fooded, crazy Felwood buffed. 

[WoopeeTuralyon]

How about 80k now? 

[Chimpy]

HP is the thing I really noticed on my most recent return.  As I said in another thread, I just hit 80 on my hunter.  The last I was playing was just when ICC opened and that was after a break from when Ulduar opened.  Each time, I've been shocked at tank HP inflation.  When I left the first time when Ulduar opened 30k hp was an adequately geared raid tank.  Now, 50k hp tanks are not uncommon.  I can recall when our MT warrior commented once in Vanilla how he was impressed that he finally crossed 10k hp, buffed, flasked, elixer'd, fooded, crazy Felwood buffed.  

On my hunter in tier2/3 gear at 60 I had fully buffed with zandalar buff, EPL tower buff, chimmy chops, and a titans flask I topped out around 7k (one survival hunter in our guild was able to hit 8k) for Loatheb.

At the end of TBC in full t6 level gear I was at something around 7000 with no real buffs.

When I quit about 2 months after WotLK came out, in a mix of 10/25 man Naxx gear I had around 15k unbuffed.

HP inflation is really, more than anything, how Blizzard makes the differences between caps felt. This is also how they make old gear obsolete - the damage output of even easy mobs is such that if you don't have the proper item level gear on, you won't have enough HP to survive more than a couple of hits. (all other defensive stats aside)

[Setanta]

If only hunters had a way to drop a lot of aggro all at once, or even transfer it to others....that'd be something wouldn't it?

I FD if I grab aggro, but I don't see any reason to blow my cooldowns, grab aggro, then FD when I can just space them out and get pretty much the same DPS by being a little more careful.

And this is exactly what is wrong with hunters today. Have you thought of hitting FD BEFORE you grab aggro? Omen is your friend.

As a vanilla and pre-BC raiding hunter, if we pulled that crap and the aggro transferred to another player we would be called out for not using our tools properly and rightly so.

[Chimpy]

FD early and often was the motto. Especially when the resist was based off the total armor value of every mob, NPC, and player character in range combined.  Good luck getting a FD to not resist on Broodlord.

[Merusk]

Me as Hunter lead ca. BWL to several twits who constantly pulled aggro: "If FD is off CD you'd goddamn well better be using it or you're getting replaced by a mage."

Nobody hates hunters like another hunter.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

7k in BC tier gear seems kinda low. My shammy(lowest health class) had ~8.5k.

[Morat20]

FD early and often was the motto. Especially when the resist was based off the total armor value of every mob, NPC, and player character in range combined.  Good luck getting a FD to not resist on Broodlord.

Don't need to now. Misdirect onto the tank everytime it's up. Misdirect before you blow a major set of cooldowns. (My general on a boss is Misdirect, BW, Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot). I also tend to misdirect/volley on trash (not that most tanks have a problem with aggro control on trash) but I figure, why worry?

Only aggro I ever grab is either the odd adds, or if the tank goes bye-bye.

[Chimpy]

7k in BC tier gear seems kinda low. My shammy(lowest health class) had ~8.5k.

I was guessing on unbuffed health, it has been a couple years.

Fully buffed I was a little over 10k, I am fairly certain.