Bicycles

[Hawkbit]

Anyone into bicycles?  I'm starting the process of learning about them and was looking for some decent learning resources about buying a nice first bike.  We're attempting to move from Ohio to Seattle next year and I'm hoping to get rid of my car and bike it around a lot.  So I think I'm looking for a road/commuter bike. 

Any opinions or info? 

[IainC]

IIRC Tale is a keen cyclist.

[Engels]

Anyone into bicycles?  I'm starting the process of learning about them and was looking for some decent learning resources about buying a nice first bike.  We're attempting to move from Ohio to Seattle next year and I'm hoping to get rid of my car and bike it around a lot.  So I think I'm looking for a road/commuter bike. 

Any opinions or info? 

Seattle es muy hilly?

[pxib]

I have a short enough commute that I bike. Up until this January I had an old 18-speed mountain bike, but it was showing its age (losing usable gears, likely requiring a replacement chain, springs in the seat dying) and since I do not commute through open country, I decided to buy myself a town bike for Christmas. The transformation has been complete and now I don't know how I stayed on big, knobby tires for so long.



I'm riding a 3-speed Electra Amsterdam, a simplified American version of the famous Dutch design (and made in China). It's big, absurdly comfortable, has full fenders for rainy streets, and it brakes, shifts, and pedals like a dream. The very fact that it's geared to max out at 12mph or so has turned what was an occasionally harrowing spin into a refreshing bit of outdoorsmanship... and somehow the commute's only a minute or two longer.

I do have to mention that I live in a broad, flat floodplain. Three speeds would not be enough for more terrain-intensive commutes. Nor are the Amsterdam's wide handlebars appropriate for dodging between parked cars and motorists in a bustling metropolis. If you live somewhere with elevation or heavy traffic, stick to a more conventional American road bike. But if you want to travel in style, I can't overstate what a pleasure it is to ride.

FAKE EDIT: Oh shit, Seattle. Yeah, hills galore. Get yourself a 15-18 speed road bike.

[bhodi]

I have a 2008 Trek 1.2T. It's an entry level road bike which I have been reasonably happy with on day trips. It's mostly aluminum with a carbon fork and decent components. I've replaced the stock pedals with clipless ones, and have not had to replace anything else. I think I paid about $800 for it and it's served me well for 2 years now. I haven't been biking as much lately, hardly any this year, so I'd say the bike's got maybe 500 miles on it. I've only done daytrips of about 20-30 miles each.

I bike over fairly flat ground, so in retrospect I'd have done just as well with a lighter, simpler 2 gear crank instead of the 3 gear one that I have. If you've got a lot of hills, you'll want 3 gears in the front, so 15+ speeds. This is my first road bike; previously I had a old, clunky mountain bike hybrid. I actually think I prefer the frame style, sitting up to crouching on your standard road bike.

Make sure you go to a bike store and get fitted, and make sure it isn't by a random teenage part-time asshat. Get fitted by a guy who knows bikes. A single frame size can mean the difference between bliss and pain.

I will suggest that no matter what bike you get, you buy a bag and a frame pump, and stick extra tires and a bike multitool (you need at least several hexes, a tool to get the chain off/on, and a tool to put tires on the rim) in the bag. You will get a flat. it's inevitable. Plan for it. It'll probably be both in the rain and very far from your house.

Also, I'm a big fan of the camelback or other 'portable hydration device'. Yes, it kind of makes you look like a tool, but it's so convenient. I wear mine for both hiking and biking and it's often empty at the end.

My take on bike locks: - if someone wants your bike, they'll get it. Locks are a deterrent, and not even a very good one at that. Someone could walk up with bolt cutters and a hack saw and not a single person is going to stop them from cutting through your lock and taking your bike in plain view. Or, simply unscrewing and taking your seat, wheels, and stripping your entire frame down. Hence, I got a really shitty combo lock that cost me $10 and that would take about 2 seconds and a pair of bolt cutters to clip through. It's good enough for my purposes - namely preventing anyone who doesn't have any tools from just walking (riding) off with my bike. If you buy a lock, make sure it's compact, quick to attach/remove and don't rely on it too heavily. Bikes vanish all the time, especially in cities.

[Soln]

I was also considering a bike for awhile but I've been put off by the cost.  Is $800 mid range because I hear $1000 is what you should expect.  I can't justify that much and I'm wary of bike stores since I don't know enough to tell them to not rape me.

[Trippy]

DISCLAIMER: I have not commuted on a bicycle for many many years now, and I haven't kept up with the latest in bike technology so much of what I'm about to say may be incorrect/obsolete

Unless you have experience riding a racing bike I would not recommend one for commuting. My recommendation, as a starting point, would be to look at what used to be called a "hybrid" bike which is sort of like what pxib posted a pic of but with more typical mountain bike components. A hybrid back in my day had a frame that was a cross between a racing bike and a mountain bike -- i.e. it was heavier duty than a racing bike but wasn't designed to take the full-on abuse of a mountain bike, and they typically didn't have a front or rear suspension (like a racing bike). The components on the bike, though, were more like mountain bike components (straight handlebars, triple chain ring, etc.). They also often came with a rack and mud guards. This bike is I believe a modern day version of the bike I'm talking about:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/allant/allant/

Here are the problems I see with commuting with a racing bike (which I used to ride as well back in my youth before I destroyed my knees cycling...):

* Normal racing wheels aren't designed to take the abuse of urban streets.

* Racing tires get flats much easier than mountain bike tires (hybrid tires tend to be narrower than mountain bike tires but still wider than racing tires and are also less flat prone)

* They are also slippier in the rain.

* Unless you custom spec your gearing most off-the-rack racing bikes don't have novice-rider friendly gearing for hill climbing. I haven't biked up the hills in Seattle but from what I gather some are pretty steep and something like a 42 chain ring up front and a 24 teeth cog in back may still be too difficult for you to climb up some hills. (Actually looking at some Trek racing bike specs it seems like these days many are spec'd for hill climbing standard so maybe this isn't as much of an issue anymore).

* It may not be easy to mount a rack on a racing bike. It also sort of ruins the aesthetics of the bike (as do mud guards). Most of the commuters I see here in Silicon Valley using racing bikes use a backpack rather than trying to retro-fit a rack onto them. When I commuted on my hybrid I used a bike saddlebag hooked onto my rack to carry my work clothes and other stuff. That was much easier and better (to me) than riding with a big bulky (and sweaty) backpack.

* I preferred the more upright position of a hybrid/mountain bike when riding in traffic as I was more visible and it was easier to look around (not hunched over the handlebars, though of course you could just hold the flats instead of the drops on a racing bike).

* Riding a racing bike is uncomfortable. These things are built for speed not comfort. The saddles can be especially painful for novice riders. You do get used to it if you ride enough but it will never be as comfortable as a hyrbid/mountain bike.

You can of course customize a racing bike to mitigate many of the issues (use custom wheels, change the saddle, get a triple chain ring setup, have the shop install a rack for you, etc.) but then you are effectively building a "racing hybrid" bike which is sort of like an oxymoron (actually what you would be assembling would be more like a cyclocross bike which might be an option).

[Trippy]

I was also considering a bike for awhile but I've been put off by the cost.  Is $800 mid range because I hear $1000 is what you should expect.  I can't justify that much and I'm wary of bike stores since I don't know enough to tell them to not rape me.

$800 is high low end for a racing bike. "Mid-range" would be like ~$1500 (e.g. an aluminum frame with Shimano 105 components).

[Jeff Kelly]

It entirely depends on how you plan to use the bike.

Pricier bikes tend to be built from better components which make them last longer and also make riding the bike easier or more comfortable. There comes a point however where this crosses over into professional training device territory.

The biggest issue is the frame, everything else can be either upgraded or replaced but you're usually stuck with the frame. Cheap bikes literally fall apart if you use them intensively because the frames are not sturdy enough or the quality of the welding is poor.

The german equivalent of consumer reports usually tests bikes once per year and there are always some where the frame, the fork or the handlebars broke during testing, usually cheap bikes. Imagine that happening while you ride the bike. Bikes have no (or very limited) suspension so the frame suffers a lot of mechanical stress.

Everything else can be replaced or upgraded, so I'd look into getting a bike with a decent frame fitted to your size, a comfortable saddle and good handle bars.

The rest depends entirely on the circumstances. If you use it for commutes you should get a road legal bike that's fitted with fenders, lights and reflectors. You should also invest into one or two really good locks or opt for a cheap used bike. Bikes get stolen all the time and it would be a shame if you invested $800 in your new bike only to get it stolen.

If you commute I'd strongly suggest to get a bike with road tires. They are less wide and have a more smooth tread pattern. They make riding a lot easier on the road than the bigger mountain bike tires.

You should get something like that new in the $600 to $800 range including a decent transmission and decent cranks and axles. You should also look into the classifieds you can get quite a bargain on used bikes sometimes.

The type of transmission depends on how many hills you have. 23 or 27 speed derailleur transmissions are good if you live in hilly terrain or tend to go on trips if your city is as flat as Holland however even a single speed bike might be sufficient. It's also a matter of preference some people I know don't like derailleur transmissions or find them confusing. I use my bike every day, live in hilly terrain and have already clocked over 2000 miles on it in less than two years and even I use only 8 or 9 out of the 27 gears most of the time so a hub transmission (which has only 3 to 8 gears) might be entirely OK.

As with all purchases the sky is the limit. Investing more will get you better components - lighter frame, better transmission, axles and cranks that make riding easier etc. You probably shouldn't go below $600 however because what you get below that price point is usually crap.

[Jeff Kelly]

The term you're looking for is trekking or touring cycle.

I own that one:
http://www.simplon.com/active-lifestyle-raeder/speedbikes/scan.html

It's a good example of a good commuter bike (although out of your price range) and is exactly what Trippy is talking about.

A real racing/road bike would look something like that:
http://www.simplon.com/rennraeder-triathlon/rennraeder/serum.html

which is not very comfortable to use for commutes

[Tebonas]

Yes, I would go for the trekking bike as well. My last 5 bikes have been variations of these

http://www.ktm-bikes.at/de/trekking/onroad/hardtail-alui/Lifestyle.php

With the exception of one Crossbike for better grip on forest trails, but that doesn't sound like what you want to do.

Also, my personal preference would be to to get it fitted with one of these multi function handlebars.



Over longer distances, the ability to change positions to rest your tired hands can be a godsend.

[Trippy]

The term you're looking for is trekking or touring cycle.

A traditional touring bicycle here in the US has drop handlebars (dunno if that's still true). It's also (traditionally) more racing/road bike than mountain bike while what I'm calling a hybrid leans more towards a mountain bike than a touring bike does. This is an example of what I would call a touring bike:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/520/520/

[K9]

I have a racing bike I got through a newspaper for £20, it's does the job fine. If you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on a bike you only use for commuting then personally I think you're a tad crazy, or have more money than sense.

[Trippy]

Or you can stop being such a judgmental prick.

[K9]

Here in London expensive bikes are an expensive habit, and I'd never buy a bike I couldn't afford to replace without a thought. I ride into work most days, and I have ridden plenty of bikes and I'm happy to reassure anyone that they don't need to spend $500+ to get from A to B on a daily commute.

[Trippy]

And I'm telling you to STFU.

[Jeff Kelly]

An average commute would probably be 4 miles one way. So you'd probably travel at least 8 miles per work day on your bike. If you mind the weather you'd most probably only use it between march and september. Approximately 30 weeks per year or 150 business days. In that time you'd have clocked 1200 miles and if you would replace it every year you'd have a cost of $5.30 per day of use for your $800 bike. Such a bike easily lasts for 5 to 10 years which would reduce the cost to less than a dollar per day of use. Much less than a car even if you'd throw it away each year.

$800 also gets me a very comfortable ride components that are built to last and a bike that I actually get around quicker.

You preferring the GBP25 bike is OK, but your statement is the same as claiming that people should just buy a $500 used car instead of a $5000 used one (or a $800 new one).

[bhodi]

Getting a cheap/used bike is fine if you can evaluate the components for wear and know bike specs. Think of it like buying a used car; only a mechanic is going to know a clunker from a steal. Keep in mind that tires wear out (in as little as 1.5-2k miles in some cases) and so do components. Faster if it's a shit bike or has had no maintenance.

The other thing to note is that materials tech is moving fairly fast in the bike world, you wouldn't want to buy a bike that's been sitting in a garage for 5+ years, any more than you would a computer.

If you aren't bike mechanic, either bring one along or forget it.

[Ghambit]

Personally, if I lived in a hilly area and needed to commute regularly, I wouldnt get a bike at all.  For $1000 you can get a moped, e-bike, gas or electric scooter, motorized razor, and/or maybe even a small smart-like car.  If you want it solely for EXERCISE then fine.  But for a commute??  In the hills??  No peddling for me thanks, 'specially if I'm toting any gear at all.

[Samwise]

Get a Segway!   

[Ironwood]

K9 makes a good point about London;  things get nicked.

[Engels]

Talking to my sister, who lives in Cambridge UK, it seems that bicycle theft is absolutely rampant there. She has a cheap bike, and says that buying a good bike in Cambridge is pure insanity, since the average ownership time of a bike if it is even half way decent is about 4 months. That is, unless you have some private lockup facility for them.

So although K9s advice is good for Londoners, it probably doesn't apply to folks living in places where bike theft isn't that rampant. Seattle is fairly decent in this department. Sure, if you lock up your bicycle in an alley behind a pub for a week, you're sorta asking for it, but garden variety bike racks at, for example, the University of Washington, aren't that big of a problem. There's lots of pedestrian traffic about and if you're not leaving it locked up overnight, your bike is probably safe.

[Ironwood]

Indeed.

[pohsyb]

I bike to work every day ( 18 miles round-trip ) and this is my commuuter work horse:



Raleigh One-Way (I paid $700).  Its a single speed bike, but I live in a pretty flat area. This is not a light racing bike, but a sturdy work-horse.  I have a rack and pack on the back (mad rhymes yo!) where I have supplies to fix anything that could go wrong (Spare tire, tire remover, spoke wrench, spare spokes, chain-whip, spare cog, chain-tool, wrench ).  This bike comes with a brooks saddle and a very nice integrated pump.  I ride it fixed-gear mode, but the stock hub is a flip-flop, meaning I can turn the wheel around and ride it like a single speed coaster.  Since its single speed, I replaced the stock chain with a thicker (tougher) version made specifically for single speed bikes.  If you like having gears, the Clubman is a more expensive option.

I used to commute with a K2 racing bike, but I had too many reliability problems.  I've also commuted with a Cannondale Caffeine with road tires which was a tank, but I ditched it when I got the fixed-gear itch.

[Trippy]

Personally, if I lived in a hilly area and needed to commute regularly, I wouldnt get a bike at all.  For $1000 you can get a moped, e-bike, gas or electric scooter, motorized razor, and/or maybe even a small smart-like car.  If you want it solely for EXERCISE then fine.  But for a commute??  In the hills??  No peddling for me thanks, 'specially if I'm toting any gear at all.

Biking and inline skating to work *was* my exercise.

[Rasix]

Every once in a while you'll see a homeless guy in Tucson riding a $1500 bike.     Cycling is really big here for whatever reason, but no one really commutes that way.  The heat is probably a factor.   

[ghost]

This is a great commuter bike.  It's a bit pricey, but it's worth it.  

Surly Long Haul Trucker

You'll want to stay away from traditional, race oriented frame geometries.  

Edit:  Also, while not nearly as sexy as some of the other frame materials out there, steel framed bikes are generally a much more comfortable ride and are often much cheaper.  They are sturdier and look "older" so they are probably a little less likely to be stolen.

[Soln]

one of the things that impresses me about Seattle is the bike racks on buses (below).  Never saw those before moving here.  Portland is apparently #1 in the US (?) for bike friendliness and support. 

[Paelos]

one of the things that impresses me about Seattle is the bike racks on buses (below).  Never saw those before moving here.  Portland is apparently #1 in the US (?) for bike friendliness and support. 

Vail, Colorado has tons of those. We use them all the time in the summer on the buses.

[Teleku]

Bay Area bus's have those as well.

[Samwise]

bus's

[NowhereMan]

It's not his fault, the e and ' keys are like right next to each other.

[Engels]

He probably posted from his iPhone. That thing is constantly doing teh awesome. Let me give you an example:

Instant message convo:

I'm going to the store, need anything?

How about some tomato juice?

Pull at the poop source network

What??

Let's try that again, shall we?

Plz du

[Fraeg]

to the OP just go to the Seattle REI descirbe your needs and your budget and they will set you up.   Back in the day I worked in an REI bike shop, and the people who work in their shops are pretty solid.  Oh and the employees don't make commission or anything like that so there is no incentive for them to try and sell you something you don't need.   Hell half my time was spent telling people that something vastly cheaper than what they had picked out would serve them just fine.



Nothing like selling someone a ~$2,000 full suspension mountain bike which will never leave the asphalt 

[Salamok]

I haven't owned a bike in 10 years but my current fantasy is to take an older aluminum frame hybrid, drop in one of those nifty Shimano internal 8 speed hubs, find a decent ratio fixed front sprocket, then paint the whole thing with a crappy home paint job and end up with a decent commuter bike with a low level of steal appeal.

As an added bonus I also end up with rear brakes that work in the rain and the ability to shift while at a dead stop.