Some medium term direction (noob)

[Kageru]

So you can get level 1 and 2 missions in 0.0 space?

[Gets]

Yes.

I did read one piece of advice I liked which was "Don't move to 0.0 before you can support yourself there"... so about what point should a character start looking for a good 0.0 corp?

You read wrong. You should get to 0.0 immediately once you inject as many skillbooks as you can in a school station, as many have done before. We know how hard it is to find stuff to do as a newbie, so you get a little ISK to blow on tackling frigates in the meanwhile and a whole lot more when you actually do show up on killmails flying them. The idea is to encourage fun stuff. If you find yourself playing this game and not being able to enjoy it, you're playing with the wrong people.

PvE is not the only way to make a living in Eve. It requires skillpoints and a decent fit. Trading on the other hand requires market knowledge and startup capital. Scamming requires a lack of video game ethics, etc. Here's a handy list of things you can aspire to do compared to another type of MMO: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7762/evevswow.jpg

[Kageru]

Bought myself a Caracal for 2.2 million. Just can't argue with that price and the skills required to be productive in it are far less demanding than the other alternatives. Gives me a reasonably capable / expendable ship to explore the game with and shoot stuff while training. Seamless transition into a drake as well and then I can use that to fund my dreams of gunboats.

Thanks for the patience and answers.

[Endie]

I can see that a good guild is mandatory. For a degree of security, to allow you to have a stake in 0.0 but mostly because you spend so much time just tooling around in your ship you need the chat and sense of direction.

I did read one piece of advice I liked which was "Don't move to 0.0 before you can support yourself there"... so about what point should a character start looking for a good 0.0 corp?

We will be recruiting again very soon. If you are the sort of spy who invests 1100+ posts in your infiltration methods then I don't think any of us will mind that much.

[Kageru]

If I was a spy I'd be asking questions on how to do it better and discussing my thoughts :)

Gaming with F13 in Eve would be good, your last recruitment drive was somewhat curtailed by goon Delve imploding.

[Pezzle]

Just in case it has not actually been said yet.
(Endie saying IF does not count)


SPY

[ghost]

I'm a spy. 

[bhodikhan]

I can't find the Espionage Skillbook. Do you really need that to be a spy?

Since I used to be in Quam I've given up even trying to join you all. Maybe when you're not at war with a corp I was a member of 2 years ago I won't be considered a spy.

[Slayerik]

If I was a spy I'd be asking questions on how to do it better and discussing my thoughts :)

Gaming with F13 in Eve would be good, your last recruitment drive was somewhat curtailed by goon Delve imploding.

Join us. I makes it rain isk and rarely ever really play.

[Numtini]

your last recruitment drive was somewhat curtailed by goon Delve imploding

Funny thing, I joined just before then and it was one of the most fun things I've ever been part of.

Kind of drove that "there are consequences in this game" thing home.

[bhodikhan]

Kind of drove that "there are consequences in this game" thing home.

I don't even want to count how many ships I've lost. Good thing there isn't a /shipslost command in-game.

[ghost]

Finding a corp with normal people can be.........interesting

[patience]

Here's a protip if you only stick to cruiser class ships.

Train for pirate Faction ships especially if your goal is to get HACs, Assault ships, electronic attack frigs and interceptors . The skill requirements simply aren't as steep and the ship pool is far more varied than trying to cross train ships like HACs. More importantly the sell price for cruiser and frigate faction is hardly more expensive than tech 2 frigates and cruisers. (Battleships otoh are hideously expensive)


The most important thing you need to do is to determine which set of tech 2 weapons you want because that is too time consuming specializing into every weapon class.

If your plans are to get more specialized ships like logistics, covert ops or fleet command then ignore me.

[patience]

PvE is not the only way to make a living in Eve. It requires skillpoints and a decent fit. Trading on the other hand requires market knowledge and startup capital. Scamming requires a lack of video game ethics, etc. Here's a handy list of things you can aspire to do compared to another type of MMO: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7762/evevswow.jpg

CCP has made a more professional career guide. http://www.eveonline.com/careerguide/

[Kageru]

Last recruitment drive I was also into Fallen Earth, /sigh... so much wasted potential.

Thanks for that document. Some of the entries are really reaching a bit far but it's also an interesting overview. For a starter T1 cruisers are just such a sweet spot and I like the fact they transition into all the specialist roles and advanced ships although I need more experience to determine if those roles are fun / useful. And can also explore PvE and generate some income. It also won't hurt if I lose a couple of them to rats or PvP while learning some lessons about what not to do.

I can't easily imagine the amount of dedication required to pilot a capital ship in PvP. But then you'd only be piloting those because your corporation needs it, it's not really a personal ship I imagine.

[ghost]

Are there any particular noob corp scams I should be aware of?  As in, drag you out to some worm hole and steal all your stuff and leave you for dead type scams? 

[Pezzle]

I am sure there are plenty.  Do not join gangs with people you do not know.  Do not accept blind trades etc. Always read contract details and not just what the link says.  Always check item quantity and price per unit when buying items.  Do not give out your login credentials of any kind.  I would not even give out API really.  Never ever pay recruitment 'fees'.  Never accept non contract courier jobs.  If you must click links in local and elsewhere I would copy link location and paste it into wordpad or something similar first.  Always inspect items you are purchasing.  Always check whatever 'fee' is involved in any window (like mail).  Always keep local open to watch what is going on (big fights may not apply).  Never warp to some random idiots bookmarks.  Never let same random idiots gangwarp you.  Never help a guy by scooping his can for him.  Never have someone haul things for you unless you absolutely trust them.  Never put your stuff in a hanger you do not have take access from. 

In general it cannot hurt to be paranoid.  Once you get the feel for things general common sense should kick in and you can trust people here and there.

[Pennilenko]

I trust 97 percent of the people on this forum. But only 3 percent of the 97 percent while they are logged into EVE.


Alright I am joking I would trust most people in bat country with pretty sensitive information.

[ghost]

Seems like most corps want your API.

[Endie]

I can't find the Espionage Skillbook. Do you really need that to be a spy?

Since I used to be in Quam I've given up even trying to join you all. Maybe when you're not at war with a corp I was a member of 2 years ago I won't be considered a spy.

I actually thought you flew with us for a bit in Bat Country when we did the original reboot, with Empire war shanigans?  I always used to get you mixed up with Bhodi, anyway.

In any case, we're not really at war with Quam: we're just in the area causing trouble for everyone.  We'd certainly take a look at your app.

[Stabs]

Seems like most corps want your API.

Giving a limited API is safe. Giving a full API is probably safe.

The main purpose is for counter-espionage. Usually they check your alts (eg no trying to join Goons with a Bob alt) and your player donations (eg no trying to join Goons with a 500m isk player donation from the leader of Bob).

After you're accepted into the corp change your API.

[Pezzle]

If a primary defense against spies and thefts is checking ALTS with API keys and the like the game is doing something wrong.

[Stabs]

Defence against spies varies from corp to corp. At its lowest there is no counter-espionage, not even an API check. At its highest, well I don't know all the details but technical measures like IP matching and social engineering measures will get used as well as intense API data scrutiny.

Failing to detect a spy can be really harsh. I'm not sure what you feel the game should be doing. Spying is a comparatively rare profession that really interests some people and makes the game richer for everyone else. I think it's working fine the way it is now.

[Endie]

If we suspect someone we use Vio Geraci, who fucks goons.  They have some decent tools.

[ghost]

It seems as if someone is willing to go so far as "spy" in this game that it would be really easy and relatively cheap to just set up a new account.

[Kageru]

Which is probably the reason characters with less than X million skill points are looked at askance, though I believe CCP allows the sale of characters.

[Stabs]

It seems as if someone is willing to go so far as "spy" in this game that it would be really easy and relatively cheap to just set up a new account.

Yes they do this but there's still quite a lot that can be done. You may have posted on a rival's forum, possibly in an entirely different game but with a recognisable identity (eg the WoW "Stabs" is the same "Stabs" that is a Bob director). The IP address when I posted on their boards taunting them after my WoW guild beat them to a server first is the same IP address that "JoeBloggs938" who wants to join their corp has.

Or you fail to demonstrate certain qualities. Traditionally it has been hard for enemies to spy on the powerful Russian speaking corps of Eve because everyone joining was expected to be a native speaker. With smaller nationalities it gets even harder (for example Finfleet or Hun Reloaded). This, according to a talk I listened to from The Mittani, helps protect goons because goons have a set of memes and in-jokes that can be hard for people who don't read the Something Awful fora to emulate. Do you speak Goon?

So yes, of course competent spies come in with fresh accounts but they still get caught. It's actually quite fascinating. I'd quite like to get into the counter-espionage side of the game. And play John Le Carre games of releasing information to a small subset of trusted players then monitoring whether it gets picked up by opposing intelligence agencies.

[Kageru]

Tutorial missions x 4 all done. 2.5 million isk to buy and equip my Caracal which laughs at level 1 missions, 20-30 million isk on skillbooks and starting to see lots of training times in days on skills I want. At least I can shoot, loot, explore and get faction while those skills are ticking over in the background.

Saw some interesting comments on ship selection on the SA forums,

"The game is a loving miserable [snip] station simulator when you follow the skill path of Frig - Cruiser -> Battleship -> Dreadnought. The game's true fun has always been in it's small skirmish poo poo. This is where CCP has balanced the game to. If you want good advice? Train this skill path. Frigate -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser (Get T2 Cruiser guns for ratting) -> Interceptor -> Assault Frigates -> Heavy Assault Cruiser/Recon -> Interdictor -> Heavy Interdictor. From there just start maxing out every racial cruiser skill set."

I guess this might play out quite differently if you were a major space holding alliance facing large fleet battles but apparently the lag and state of the game means that isn't happening so much. This path certainly sounds more fun optimized since flying around a badger gave me a feel for what battleship speed is like. I suspect in both cases though you're going to spend a lot of time at the cruiser -> battlecruiser step generating Isk and learning skills before you move up.

[Amarr HM]

That SA post holds a lot of water.

[Stabs]

It's very good advice.

There are also several extra paths you can build on top of cruiser/frigate mastery. Covert ops are great for sneaking around and if you can scan down players you feed your fleet kills. Stealth bombers sound like fun. Strategic cruisers are the only Tech 3 ships currently in the game and are approximately as tough as a battleship for pve but much more versatile. T3 Frigates are on the CCP to do list and may come this winter or next summer.

You could spend years just playing frigates and cruisers and never miss out.

[Endie]

Now that we do very little strategic stuff I am having immense fun in Eve playing with rapiers and cruiser-hull stuff.  It makes you a better player.

Also, I have been doing a tour of the unfashionable hulls like Electronic Attack Ships (hyenas, keres, kitsune done, only the sentinel to try), the Eos (turns out it is pretty bad), vexors, cerbs and so on.  I'm having a great time.  The only ships I have lost recently are battleships, which are too unwieldy to get out.  By contrast, I've flown electronic attack ships nine or ten times and not lost one, maybe because FCs don't know what they are or people don't even have them on their overviews.

One fun thing is that anyone can have a great time popping hostile support with a hurricane alongside the best of them inside a few weeks of starting, and you won't get primaried the way you will as a lone blackbird against a remote-rep gang, for instance.  Similarly, you can train up a decent drake inside your first month in the game and take part in some of the most effective fleets in the gang (drake/scimitar gangs).  Of course, I'll be in a nighthawk but it's cool.

[Brolan]

Before you accept a courier contract be sure you can access the stations for pickup and delivery.  Some stations are private and will not let you in to finish the contract.   Also be aware some contracts/good deals/etc. in low sec and null sec are lures to get you caught in a gate camp.

[Kageru]

Lessons learnt today:

1. Read the mission carefully, it will contain hints on things that will kill you.
2. A Fully spawned "recon" mission, level 2, phase 1, will kill you very quickly even though they are frigates... albeit 12 with 4 elites.
3. It takes a long time for a cruiser to use an acceleration gate, whereas structure vanishes surprisingly quickly.
4. Insurance is a good thing.
5. Bookmarking your wreck, cancel mission, come back and loot yourself.. time for reflection.

So if I had waited for downtime the mission would have reset?

They also jammed me and I was getting a message as if my maximum number of targets was 0. Is this targeting disruption?

[Setanta]

In "Recon", the best bet is to burn out as far as you can before the frigates agress/tackle you. Fit a 10mn afterburner for the mission (not  mwd). Burn out and set your orbit to 30kms and orbit the pack, not letting them get closer than 24 km. Toss missiles at them but only at the ones that are flashing - that way you don't take on the whole room at once. A target painter might help against frigs but if you have low SP, stick with shield mods. Look for what is using EWAR against you. Kill them first.

It could be worse, I run a speed/active shield tanked cruiser on the Level 4 version. First time in the new ship the first pack to agress me went scram and web followed by a different mission that neuted me at 30km out - fortunately I learned my lesson and hit them from 60 km out.

[Kageru]

Once the room had fully popped they seemed to all be in aggro range and pretty close. If I'd just burned for the gate while they were spawning I think I would have made it, or just brought a speedship and rushed it no problem, but once the room was full no chance. Alternatively work out how to counter the jamming and whittle them down would have probably worked and got me some loot.

Running the level 4 version in a cruiser sounds pretty courageous though :)