Walking Dead

[Yegolev]

Well, of course Shane was right.  Jesus!

[Ironwood]

weren't they the ones from the episode when Rick banished Carol

Were they ?

EDIT :  Not according to IMDB. 

[HaemishM]

Thats the point I tried to make and thats what bugs me.

Eastman and Morgan don't work because they stretch their philosophy to ridiculous extremes, a bit toned down their philosophy would work better.

Basically they are strawman pacifists to show everybody what a bad idea nonviolence is. Coupled with Glens redemption failure I get the feeling they want to tell me that Shane was right so long ago.

I don't think you're correct about that. Watching that episode in a vacuum might lead you to believe that, but we don't know what's going to happen with the wolf. We think Morgan is keeping him alive without telling anyone else that, and maybe what he's actually doing is the same thing Eastman did to the serial killer - starving him. Or Morgan's doing what Eastman did to him - giving him a chance to walk through the door, to redeem himself the way Morgan believes he's redeemed himself.

As far as the show going out of its way to make it seem like "Rick is right and everyone who doesn't agree dies," I'm not so sure about that either. We're looking at it in the middle of the season and there's a lot that's still not resolved. Hell, Rick may be dying for all we know at which point he couldn't have been very right about his plan. Hell, his plan has been dissolving all along by unforeseen circumstances, crumbling a little bit at a time. If anything, I think the show is actually trying to say that absolute, rigid adherence to a philosophy without the ability to adapt is the real killer in this new world. ALL life is precious is just as wrong as kill or be killed. I mean, if all life is precious, that means you have to make some kind of accommodation for cannibals who obviously can't believe that all life is precious. But if you just start killing everyone who might threaten you, eventually there's only one person left alive against the horde.

[Ironwood]

I think it's clear he's told no-one and it's clear he's trying to redeem him.

Both are mistakes.

[jgsugden]

One thing to note: Alexandria is potentially the start of a community.  Just as in the prison, they're trying to live a life behind the relative safety of those walls.  That requires a different approach than trying to survive on the road.  The Ruthless Rick approach is what you need when survival is the only goal - but when the goal is to create a community, help it grow, protect it in a unified fashion, create a sense of peace, etc...  Then the old world rules start to become necessary again. 

I don't think this story ends with Rick showing Morgan that new his way is wrong.  I think it ends with Morgan convincing Rick that - eventually - his (new) way has to be right. 

[Ironwood]

No, because they're both too extreme.

[HaemishM]

No, because they're both too extreme.

This. I think we're coming down to a "lesson" that the new world isn't always one thing or the other, it's that you better be willing to adapt to changing circumstances quickly before you get killed by them. Failing to act is just as bad as acting too violently if the situation demands something else.

[jgsugden]

No, because they're both too extreme.

I don't think Rick will adopt a rule of absolutely no killing.  I do think he'll adopt a rule of not killing unless absolutely necessary - basically a return to the old rules.  Outside war and necessary for defense of life, no killing.

[Yegolev]

weren't they the ones from the episode when Rick banished Carol

Were they ?

EDIT :  Not according to IMDB. 

The guy from Banished Carol showed up in Terminus and got the slice at the bleeding trough.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, apparently I was totally wrong about those two.

[Ironwood]

weren't they the ones from the episode when Rick banished Carol

Were they ?

EDIT :  Not according to IMDB. 

The guy from Banished Carol showed up in Terminus and got the slice at the bleeding trough.

Yes, I remember him.  I liked that wee touch.  Though that scene is STILL the most brutal thing they've ever done.

[MahrinSkel]

Yes, I remember him.  I liked that wee touch.  Though that scene is STILL the most brutal thing they've ever done.

You've obviously blocked out the scene where they executed the Littlest Serial Killer.

--Dave

[apocrypha]

You've obviously blocked out the scene where they executed the Littlest Serial Killer.

--Dave

I didn't find that brutal because they didn't seem to have a choice there, and they were reluctant, conflicted, human. Terminus? Yeah those fuckers were brutal and cold and psychopathic.

I really enjoyed this episode, but I also found it upsetting - a testament to how well done it was I think. I thought one message from it was that black and white approaches, e.g. kill/don't kill, aren't always going to work. One size doesn't fit all. And that the survivors aren't always making their choices based on objective analyses. They're humans, they've got baggage, they've seen and done some shit, sometimes the choices they make are just so they can live with themselves.

Edit: Also, played a lot of 7 Days To Die yesterday, then watched TWD. Totally had zombie dreams all night.

[Ironwood]

Eastman was also shown killing left right and centre.  He also starved a man to death over a period of time.  His 'I don't Kill Now' was total, total bullshit and he knew it.  He was STILL unable to get through his own 'door'.  He'd put up a wall instead with some mantra of non-violence, but it was shallow and bullshit.  And he knew it.

That's the real take away.  Morgan is going to 'try' to uphold a life that's literally impossible without suicide and that wolf is going to show him a few home truths.  Mostly about how EASY it is to get to the point of starving some cunt to death.

It's The Killing Stroke all over again.

[Sir T]

Killing does not make you manly and tough. Killing is actually fucking easy. Living and nurturing is hard.

That's why these idiots are the walking dead. 

[shiznitz]

There is also the underlying question of what is the real value of staying alive if you have to do horrible things? Pure survival is animalistic. Humans are supposed to strive for more. The zombie apocalypse is a real test of that.

[Cyrrex]

That's how I am seeing it as well.  Rick's approach might be effective for pure survival, but if you are going to be like that, then what's the point?  Morgan's way is probably too soft, but at least he is trying to respect human life, which would be just about the most important thing if you, you know, want your fucking species to survive.

[jgsugden]

It is a fun game to try to figure out who has read the comics and who has not.  Sometimes it is quite clear.

[Setanta]

So... are they setting up a Maggie/Glen reunion to reflect Rick/Lori... sans Shane?

[jgsugden]

My guess for what we see is that we're headed back to the comic storyline: 

[Threash]

Yeah... that's not going to happen.

[jgsugden]

Yeah... that's not going to happen.

Just to be clear: If you're read the comics, you'll know what I meant.  If not, I tried not to spoil what happens in the comics, so there is a double meaning to some of what I predicted.

[jgsugden]

Negan cast - Jeffrey Dean Moragn: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/walking-dead-negan-jeffrey-dean-836243?facebook_20151110 - Comic spoilers and potential show spoilers in article.  One of my top choices that I heard thrown around, but I'd have liked Olyphant. 

[Setanta]

Love your work :)

[Ironwood]

Caught up with the latest one.  Was ok.  I still hate that Deanna looks more like a zombie than half the special effects.

Hilarious 'Coming up Next Tho'

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, that Deanna lady is real-life spooky looking.

Episode was ho-hum filler.  Best part about it was the increased screen time of hot milf.  There was otherwise too much camera time for characters I don't give a shit about.

[apocrypha]

I'm actually really impressed that they're going for such a low/no-makeup look for most of the female characters. We've got so used to what women look like buried beneath makeup that we forget what real people are like.

[Cyrrex]

Um, what?  They may be doing that with the superfluous no-named characters, but the main cast females are made up to the hilt.  They are avoiding colors that make it stand out, but these women look nothing like natural.

[HaemishM]

A decent Darrell episode, and well written but not remotely what I want to see or know about. They are seriously going to keep us hanging on this shit until next year.

[DevilsAdvocate25]

I wish the deaths to the zombies weren't so stupid. In the last two episodes, the deaths have been sooo stupid.


Prediction:

[jgsugden]

I think we get a resolve of the Glenn cliffhanger in the last 5 minutes before the break...

[Ironwood]

Didn't like that one much.

[jgsugden]

OOC: How would we (you) rank the seasons now that we have some distance from the early ones?

1.) Atlanta
2.) The Farm
3.) The Prison / Woodbury
4.) The Prison / Terminus
5.) On the Road / Alexandria
6.) Alexandria (current)

3,1,6,4,5,2 is my ranking right now...

[HaemishM]

4, 5, 1, 6, 3, 2

[MahrinSkel]

I'm just going to say, to anyone who puts 2 in anything but last place: Keep your mouth shut and go watch Downton Abbey. The only good thing that can be said about the Farm is that it wasn't quite so terrible it got the series canceled.

4, 6, 5, 1, 3, 2