Walking Dead

[HaemishM]

Who hated this season or half season? Because if you didn't like this season, you have to fucking hate this show. This season was the best they've had, and that includes the first. It only fell apart just a little in that last half hour. The season really was about 15 minutes too long. 

[Ironwood]

I don't think anyone's arguing that it's not the best it's ever been.

 

[Rasix]

The rape crew scene was almost a bit much for me.  I knew they were protected by the plot shield and general unwillingness to let the show go THAT far, but still...  I'm not sure the fat bastard got stabbed enough.  I probably would have stabbed more.

Good season. A definite upgrade over Farmville and Let's Go to Prison.  A season free of Andrea.

Terminus is probably going to end up being all kinds of stupid, but at least this season has shown they can do better. Maybe they will.

[Ironwood]

I found the that scene quite a bit more powerful than it would have been because :

1 - Michonne was 'better'.  You know she'd actually care now.
2 - They put a lot of effort this season into building up Carl for the audience.  We'd actually care there too.
3 - Mopey old Useless Rick finally did what needed to be done and DIDN'T MIND.  That's a big ole care for me.

Andrea was all kinds of retarded.  Always.  At every turn.  Jesus Christ.

[Ironwood]

Ourt of curiosity, for those that hated this season / half season as a whole: What season of TV from the last 12 months did you find to be good?  Breaking Bad and what else?

I don't really accept your initial premise, but True Detective thus far has shown us that proper characters played properly will make you believe and invest in anything.

So there's that, I guess.

[Nevermore]

Ourt of curiosity, for those that hated this season / half season as a whole: What season of TV from the last 12 months did you find to be good?  Breaking Bad and what else?

So if I liked this season does that mean I can't answer?  Because Game of Thrones and The Americans both spring to mind.

[jgsugden]

Hated was perhaps too strong a word - I should have said, "For those with complaints" or "For those that thought this season was silly"...

[HaemishM]

You vex me. 

[Rasix]

Shit-poster gonna shit-post.  Don't fret it.

[Rendakor]

Haven't watched this show in ages, but skimmed the last page or so and saw this gem:

A season free of Andrea.

Did they finally kill her off? If she's dead, Jim, then maybe I'll check this season out after catching up via Wikipedia.

[apocrypha]

Nit-picking is fun. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show. I do think this has been the best season so far.

I always want films & TV shows to be better though. There's precious few that really, really shine, but these last few years there's been many that were excellent despite some flaws. Being aware of the flaws and discussing them publicly doesn't detract from the excellent bits, and it's interesting to hear other people's ideas of what they like & don't like.

These discussions don't happen in a vacuum either. The writers have clearly responded to criticism of earlier seasons, particularly in regard to the female characters. Remember when all the women just washed clothes and cooked food? Not like that any more because the show got called out for rampant sexism. I'm not for one minute suggesting that The Walking Dead writers & producers read f13 of course ;)

[Ironwood]

Interesting.  One could make the argument that the rampant sexism was a result of the previous civilization breaking down and a new one coming to the fore.

(I wouldn't make that argument.  I think it's shit.)

 

[apocrypha]

Lol 

[Cyrrex]

Interesting.  One could make the argument that the rampant sexism was a result of the previous civilization breaking down and a new one coming to the fore.

(I wouldn't make that argument.  I think it's shit.)

 

I'm pretty sure that's more or less exactly what they were doing.  For better or worse, it was being shown as a return to the days where the men did all the skull bashing and the women did the nesting...I think they even said as much in season 1.  As far as it being rampant sexism...yeah, probably.  I am absolutely not going to point out that the one and only female of the group that railed against it was Andrea, who we all hated the shit out of. 

Part of me wonders what would happen if something like this really did happen to society.  The other part of me suspects that I am about to get flamed.   

[Threash]

Interesting.  One could make the argument that the rampant sexism was a result of the previous civilization breaking down and a new one coming to the fore.

(I wouldn't make that argument.  I think it's shit.)

 

I'm pretty sure that's more or less exactly what they were doing.  For better or worse, it was being shown as a return to the days where the men did all the skull bashing and the women did the nesting...I think they even said as much in season 1.  As far as it being rampant sexism...yeah, probably.  I am absolutely not going to point out that the one and only female of the group that railed against it was Andrea, who we all hated the shit out of. 

Part of me wonders what would happen if something like this really did happen to society.  The other part of me suspects that I am about to get flamed.   

You could point that out, then we could point out the dumb broad accidentally shot Daryl.

[Setanta]

I didn't rail against Andrea for being feminist. I railed against her because she was so fucking stupid!

 If there was a wrong choice to make, she made it. It's almost as if they reversed Carol and Andrea from who they were in the comics.

[Velorath]

On the other hand if she were still around she'd likely be sleeping with the guy from Terminus, immediately tipping everyone off to the fact that he's a villain.

[TheWalrus]

Her hoo hoo had an evil homing device didn't it?

[Tale]

[Ironwood]

 

[shiznitz]

Gender equality is a luxury of a modern, wealthy society.  If the zombie apocalypse actually arrived, I have no doubts that social norms would slowly revert to a more feudal type.  When hunger and death are daily worries, gentility usually gets shit-canned.

[Ironwood]

Er.  That's one of those things that sound true, but probably isn't.

[Ruvaldt]

Gender equality is a luxury of a modern, wealthy society.

This is false for more reasons than I care to enumerate in a thread about a fictional zombie apocalypse.

[shiznitz]

Well, I am just considering the gender inequality prevalent in many of today's non-modern and/or unwealthy societies.

[jgsugden]

Well, this isn't a dangerous conversation at all. 

Given the way society evolved across the globe, there were likely biological tendencies that influenced gender roles.  However, we evolved.  Some biological evolution, and a lot of cultural and societal evolution.  If the world went down the rabbit hole in the outhouse, that evolution would not be lost.  You might see some reversion in some communities, but it would not be a complete reversal.  Just like they didn't revert to torches and stone wheels on Walking Dead during the apocalypse, I would not expect we'd abandon all progress in the areas of equality.

And, if the idea that we've grown as a society and all that progress would not be lost is not enough by itself, remember that they still have a lot of technology in the WD world - guns, cars, battery powered personal massagers, etc...  These are pretty solid equalizers.

[Ironwood]

Frankly, I get the whole idea of protecting the womb-bearers, but in the event of a zombie apocalypse, I'd want me woman beside me shooting at shit too.

[angry.bob]

Gender equality is a luxury of a modern, wealthy society.

This is false for more reasons than I care to enumerate in a thread about a fictional zombie apocalypse.

Eh, there's a big difference between Gender Equality and Sex Equality. He might have been using them interchangeably, lots of people do. Different cultures have had varying degrees of of gender equality/inequality, not to mention different types and number of genders. I'm not talking about the current annoying and stupid as fuck wymyns studies/GLBT genders that the field is just making the fuck up. Those people are genuinely hurting the GLBT community. I'm talking about concepts like berdaches, Bissu, Calabai, and other non-binary roles that go back in their respective cultures quite a ways.

Sex Equality on the other hand is a different story. Regardless of the reasons why it developed that way, males and females are a lot better at different activities and even understanding and processing different actions and concepts from each other. physical, violent, and aggressive tasks are much better left to males. Sure, females can fire a gun. But they cant do it nearly as long as a male before fatigue. And that's a luxury afforded by technology. When the bullets run out or the gun malfunctions they become as capable as an adolescent male. Everything about a male human is set up to be stronger, faster, and more adept at violence. We have much more type II muscle mass, much lower skin sensitivity, even our joints and muscle attachments are different. The utility of a female opposed to a male in a hunting/raiding group is pretty much directly related to how long their gun works and has bullets.

I'm not saying men are better than women, but they're beyond a doubt better at the sort of things needed for group survival in a primitive setting. Historically the only thing that women have been consistently valued for more than males is childbearing. Go back far enough in a lot of cultures and eventually you get to a point where that is literally the only thing they are considered good for, sometimes not even as a first choice for sex - just providing kids.

[TheWalrus]

You're ignoring the part where women often shoot better than men.

[shiznitz]

Which raises a great point.  Women were largely excluded from martial combat due to physical constraints.  Guns remove most of those constraints.

I am not saying that in a hypothetical apocalypse, all women would stay in camp and cook/wash/birth but the proportion that did would vastly exceed the proportion of men that did.  The more survival depends on physical traits, the more likely it is for the women to be pushed into "home" tasks.  I don't think our modern views would be sustained for long in a survival-based society.  That also does not invalidate those views.

[KallDrexx]

[Ironwood]

Gender equality is a luxury of a modern, wealthy society.

This is false for more reasons than I care to enumerate in a thread about a fictional zombie apocalypse.

Eh, there's a big difference between Gender Equality and Sex Equality. He might have been using them interchangeably, lots of people do. Different cultures have had varying degrees of of gender equality/inequality, not to mention different types and number of genders. I'm not talking about the current annoying and stupid as fuck wymyns studies/GLBT genders that the field is just making the fuck up. Those people are genuinely hurting the GLBT community. I'm talking about concepts like berdaches, Bissu, Calabai, and other non-binary roles that go back in their respective cultures quite a ways.

Sex Equality on the other hand is a different story. Regardless of the reasons why it developed that way, males and females are a lot better at different activities and even understanding and processing different actions and concepts from each other. physical, violent, and aggressive tasks are much better left to males. Sure, females can fire a gun. But they cant do it nearly as long as a male before fatigue. And that's a luxury afforded by technology. When the bullets run out or the gun malfunctions they become as capable as an adolescent male. Everything about a male human is set up to be stronger, faster, and more adept at violence. We have much more type II muscle mass, much lower skin sensitivity, even our joints and muscle attachments are different. The utility of a female opposed to a male in a hunting/raiding group is pretty much directly related to how long their gun works and has bullets.

I'm not saying men are better than women, but they're beyond a doubt better at the sort of things needed for group survival in a primitive setting. Historically the only thing that women have been consistently valued for more than males is childbearing. Go back far enough in a lot of cultures and eventually you get to a point where that is literally the only thing they are considered good for, sometimes not even as a first choice for sex - just providing kids.

Hail Hydra.

[angry.bob]

You're ignoring the part where women often shoot better than men.

I'm not ignoring it, it's not true. Sure, it's a popular urban myth but any information with actual statistics that I've found show the opposite to be true.

Even if it were true though, it doesn't change the fact that she'd only be useful as long as she had a working gun. After that you'd be better off with a 12 year old boy.

[Nevermore]

 

[MahrinSkel]

You're ignoring the part where women often shoot better than men.

Olympic shooting says you're wrong.  In fact, it's not even close (men generally score 50-75% better), and that's with the extremely light single-shots designed specifically for match shooting.  "Real" shooting is only going to favor males more.

Face it, although a physically fit or well-trained woman may exceed the average male, at equal levels of preparation a lifetime of testosterone is such an advantage it's not even a contest.  Human dimorphism is a lot more than just upper-body strength, it carries through to every aspect of physical performance.

--Dave

[Tale]

[insert 10 pages of posts about guns]