So how is the PvP and are there any future changes coming?

[Shrike]

I'm sick of all the mail drops. I very very very much want a feature where you could turn off types of drops from the raid. That would bring the awesome up a notch. Cloth and plate wearers rejoice.

Forward that mail my way. When I'm on my shaman, mail never seems to drop. When it--rarely--does, it's almost invariably spellcaster trash. If it weren't for tokens, my draenei would be running around in twill. It's even worse with 1h axes and maces.

[Lantyssa]

It's inevitably the items that no one can use which drop.  I was on my DK last night and the dagger I never saw on my Druid finally did and got vendored.

[Fordel]

Random loot sucks, news at 11? 

[Paelos]

Random loot sucks, news at 11? 

I think random loot sucking is coded into the system to keep retention. But that's always been my 

[Mnemon]

I've got a guy in my guild who 4 Boxes elemental shaman; are you in the Stormstrike battlegroup?

There were three or four guys who did this on Hellscream. One of them was actually pretty good. The other two guys had no idea what they were doing.

[Dren]

I've got a guy in my guild who 4 Boxes elemental shaman; are you in the Stormstrike battlegroup?

No, but I see it from several people, so it isn't as rare as one might think.  I've seen it on alliance too and had them in my raid.  It is nice from a "we win!" scenario, but it just feels dirty and wrong. 

[WindupAtheist]

Just in the last few months, or even weeks, my server has gone from having a slightly outnumbered but vigorous Horde that put up a good struggle in Wintergrasp and won often enough, to being one of "those servers" where Wintergrasp consists of the majority side curbstomping a few scattered enemies during anything but the wee hours of the morning. I don't know what happened.

[Ingmar]

That's where Doomhammer is now too. I suspect that the pre-expansion doldrums have a tendency to hit outnumbered sides a little harder.

[Shrike]

Been that way on WW lately. Nice from the aspect of gathering and turning in shards for my various twinks (DK hasn't killed any lamers lately camping the vendors--kinda miss that). Not so much fun in the BG itself, though the horde occasionally does get it together and put up a fight.

[Mrbloodworth]

Recently started playing again (some friends talked me into it).

I think the part that pisses me off the most about this games PvP has got to be that you can pass threw each other.

"W" (aoe) "S" (aoe) "W" (aoe) "S" (aoe) "W" (aoe) "S" (aoe) "W" (aoe) "S" (aoe). Seems to be all you need. Currently playing a warrior, and man, I think someone that called the "rage" bar an "Anti-fun bar". I think it was quite apt. I now know why there are so many paladins.

I have a real hard time with this targeting system, by the time I have someone targeted, have enough rage, I have to wait forever for my toon to swing (Someone said wow combat was speedy, its not, movement is though), and by the time he does, they passed threw me and seem to have done an instant 180, and of course are subsequently out of my attack cone (that seems tiny, just like targeting with TAB is). Not to mention, Can I PLEASE have a larger render distance, that shit it retarded short (all setting maxed) in the world PvP, that, or call it a invisibility skill.   I really wish they would require you to have a minimum Ping, that, or its just simply that all gnomes warp all over the dam place. GNOMES. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop.

I enjoy a lot of PvP in various games, but I have to say, this stuff is infuriating. I have never had to deal with much of it before due to mostly playing casters in this title. Its seems the only appeal I can imagine for this kind of PvP is the large possibility that you can get some gear, and hit someone for more damage than they have hit points. I can't really say PvP in this game is appealing, or well done.

Some of it is me stumbling with melee after being a caster so long, I can accept that. But god dam. Also, I think out of ever 10 open world fights, only one has even been even close to a match.

Ill take WAR/DAOC PvP + Wow PvE now please, thanks.

/nub rant

[Paelos]

As a warrior, if you haven't hamstrung your target, you've failed in pvp. That cuts down on a lot of the running through you shit.

[Mrbloodworth]

As a warrior, if you haven't hamstrung your target, you've failed in pvp.

I noticed. Thing is, and I'm no expert, hamstring is at least a #2 key press in most cases. I need to ether rage out, or charge beforehand, or im dead. I feel its an extremely shallow number of options for opening moves.

My next complaint (and again, never had to deal with this as a caster, poor opponents) is being shot threw walls and terrain, does this game even do LOS checks at all after the initial key press?

My instinct is to break line of sight, seems this is a pointless instinct to have.

(Again, im just venting, going from caster to melee I have not had to deal with this stuff, so this is one part frustration and one part cry for help)

[Paelos]

Charge is your opening move. Hamstring is next while they are stunned. Then SMASH!

Also, intercept if you are fighting mages.

PS - LOS issues are bad for warriors, and if you play in places that have a lot of them, you will lose. That bridge arena level always makes me stabby with ppl jumping on and off it.

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't have intercept yet, but I could see how it would change things. Right now, charge, hammy and im spent.

For your viewing and laughing pleasure: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Venture+Co&cn=Grimst

[Paelos]

Well for starters, you are twink pvping, which wasn't clear.
Second, you're pvping in prot, which is only a good idea when you have actual prot abilities, and you don't at that stage.
Third, if you like pvping your way up, go into the arms tree and grab Improved Charge, Iron Will, and Improved Overpower. Improved Charge gives you more rage to work with off a charge (always good), and Iron Will cuts down on charms and stuns.
Fourth, get a 2Her and use overpower whenever it's up for instant awesome.
Fifth, Hamstring and RAWR!!!

However, expect to suck at that level b/c warriors usually don't get awesome until later when you get more cool insta-shit to do with 2H weapons.

[Musashi]

Hahaha.  This should be good.

Dude.  Don't level prot.  For the love of god.  Arms or Fury.  Also, don't PvP as prot.  I know there are people who will say it's possible, but it's not really.  When you get better and have more stuff, you can try being a damage soak for your friends, but for now you need some instant damage both for leveling and killin' dudes.

Also.  Through! 

[Shrike]

Don't roll as protection in the lower brackets. It's an exercise in futility. My own twink warrior is in the 59 bracket and I've eaten prot types for lunch up until now. In this bracket they're actually annoying, but I still usually beat them (bleed effects and OP eat them up).

The arms tree enjoys all sorts of rage enhancing abilities and glyphs. My own warrior is rarely rage starved. If she's fighting, she has (a lot) of red in the bar. The only real issue is getting caught flat...hoofed...somewhere, but talented/glyphed berzerker rage and/or second wind can usually get me rolling in high style.

Your fights should be charge, hamstring, rend, OP (usually over at this point), then MS or maybe sudden death-pumped executes depending on the situation. The main killers are the bleed effects and talented/glyphed OP. This just crushes most opponents. MS is great, but generally it's for the heal debuff on annoying assholes like priests and paladins. OP is simply the heat.

If you're twinking, get a bloodied arcanite reaper, put crusader on it, and then enjoy the mayhem. Get some hit points, too. Most of the horde warriors I beat the hell out of are usually half my hit point total.

[Mrbloodworth]

Well for starters, you are twink pvping, which wasn't clear.
Second, you're pvping in prot, which is only a good idea when you have actual prot abilities, and you don't at that stage.
Third, if you like pvping your way up, go into the arms tree and grab Improved Charge, Iron Will, and Improved Overpower. Improved Charge gives you more rage to work with off a charge (always good), and Iron Will cuts down on charms and stuns.
Fourth, get a 2Her and use overpower whenever it's up for instant awesome.
Fifth, Hamstring and RAWR!!!

However, expect to suck at that level b/c warriors usually don't get awesome until later when you get more cool insta-shit to do with 2H weapons.

Well, to be fair, I only have one more point in protection than the others (and I think I have some points to spend, ill most likely dump in arms) I do have a rather awesome 2-handier at my disposal. Twink? I got all that gear from my normal play if thats what you mean, though that glyph is high level I think? I do however roll with two friends that are twinked.

I recently changed all my gear last night, so all my enchants are missing as well. (working on that warrior armor quest line)

Thanks for the tips everyone. However, the acronyms, I'm not sure what some of them mean.

EDIT:  arms.

[Zetor]

Yeah.. first I was going to say that low-level pvp is a huge pain when going up against twinks in full BOA gear (especially as a warrior, which is the most gear-reliant class in the game), but your gear is not bad at all. I'd prob go a different spec (if you really wanna stay prot, pour everything into prot to get improved revenge and last stand), but eh, it's no big deal until you get to level 30 for your 21-point skill; concussion blow is huge.

Some stuff off the top of my head:
- Rage... sucks, yeah. You need a big stick to get more rage, and the more rage you have, the more pain you can dish out. Berserker rage (at level 30?) is huge for rage gain unless you need to save it for a fear when fighting a priest, a warlock or even another warrior.
- LOS: if you're in warsong gulch, the tree stumps in the middle part look like they block LOS but they don't. Most other stuff (except for thin fences) blocks LOS as it should. SOME channeled spells go through los (drain life/soul and arcane missiles) as long as you were in LOS when it was originally cast on you (tradeoff: standing still and channeling a spell in pvp is a pretty big bullseye in many cases)
- Even if you aren't doing omg insane damage, you can help your team a lot by hamstringing flag carrier / healers of the flag carrier / using intimidating shout on an enemy zerg at a pivotal time. Damage wins the epeen charts, CC skills win games. Same with interrupting casts of enemy healers / casters..
- Prot warriors really blossom at higher levels with spell reflect, in-combat charge in defensive stance, aoe frontal stun and so many silences/stuns that you're worse to peel than a rogue. :p At lower levels... dunno, like others said, go arms or fury. Don't split your points 3-way across all trees, focus on one at least until level 60!
- Open world pvp: it sucks, just like any diku pvp really. Sometimes you can get grudge matches going vs other leveled people, but most people are bad losers and fetch a 80 to camp you to heal their bruised ego.
- warping: was the gnome a rogue? Sprint always has that effect, but a nice stun breaks them up.
- people running through you: this is sometimes a problem, but less for a warrior than a caster. I cranked my mouse sensitivity up so I'd keep up (you can 180' swivel your camera in a split second), but it still doesn't always work since I play with 700 ping. The runthrough-aoe thing isn't effective at all: only two classes that come to mind that can do that are mage and priest, and both of them run out of mana/hp while dealing very little damage if they do that.
- Tangent, but I massively prefer WOW pvp to any other diku pvp on the market (guild wars is better, but that's also not diku) below the level cap. It's fast paced and has a fair amount of finesse (spell interrupts, cc, juking, kiting) and honestly, it flows way better than something like WAR did (blah). At level 80 it just becomes a "who has the better gear" game, sadly.

[Shrike]

Only two mean much to warrors: OP = overpower (yum). MS = mortal strike (die, pally!).

BOA stuff is fine, but when you hit 57, get the TBC plate. Man that stuff...it's just sick. Most importantly, if you're twinking, do it right and enchant the piss out of everything. Blow the bank. It's worth it for the coming giggles in the BGs.

Glyphs can be a big deal. Just use what you can, when you can. Early on you don't have a whole lot of options, but glyphed OP is a hoot (goodbye rogue rat-bastard!). What you're aiming for is stuff than enhances rage generation and pumps your core abilities (things that make you hit like a truck, in other words). I've played with glyphed sweeping strikes some. It's fun early on (and has resulted in the demise of more than a few opportunisitc rogue bastards), but probably not a great one. Zerk rage, MS, OP, maybe hamstring (if talented, too)...stuff like that.

Edit: Runthrough. Use this to your advantage. I always charge (love juggernaught) then run through my opponent while applying hamstring. Then whip around (laser mouse for the win), rend, and beat the shit of your hapless keyboard-turning opponent. This happens very frequently. Very frequently...

[Lantyssa]

Well, to be fair, I only have one more point in protection than the others (and I think I have some points to spend, ill most likely dump in arms) I do have a rather awesome 2-handier at my disposal. Twink? I got all that gear from my normal play if thats what you mean, though that glyph is high level I think? I do however roll with two friends that are twinked.

You're not the twink.  You are playing against twinks.

[Ingmar]

Hahaha.  This should be good.

Dude.  Don't level prot.  For the love of god.  Arms or Fury.  Also, don't PvP as prot. 

Don't take this at face value. At your level, Bloodworth, prot is a bad PVP spec. It is NOT a bad leveling spec though and hasn't been for years, and it can be extremely powerful in pvp at higher levels.

My main question is are you doing BG pvp with /level turned off? Because if you are you need to get the hell out of there, people with leveling turned off only play against other people with leveling turned off and that means you are in twink vs. twink hell as a non-twink. Get the hell out of there if so, you will not have any fun anytime soon.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm simply attempting to enjoy PvP. Breaks up the questing/instancing. I had no idea there was a way to stop gaining XP. Keep in mind, I'm coming back from a 2 year break.

[Ingmar]

OK good, you're doing it the 'right' way for a non-twink then. The no-level BGs are ridiculous.

[Dren]

I've been doing low level non-twink pvp and it is a great way to break up standard questing.  The exp gain is very very nice and can pump you up in levels so when you do go questing again, you can do it quicker/easier.  You just have to remember your weapon skills will be behind.  Only takes 5 mins to catch up though.

Everyone in the non-twink BG's are just in there to throw down like you.  Don't need special equipment, just a good sense for pvp in general.

Don't go /level unless you plan to make a career of staying at that level and twink yourself out min/max style.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Yeah... I had a rogue at 19 for awhile with excellent gear, I thought. I didn't have the arena master though, or the fishing hat. I actually got made fun of in BGs for not having 1k hp... it wasn't like I was bad, but almost everyone with xp turned off is insane.

[Merusk]

I'm simply attempting to enjoy PvP. Breaks up the questing/instancing. I had no idea there was a way to stop gaining XP. Keep in mind, I'm coming back from a 2 year break.

On top of all the other advice, this should tell you where your biggest problem is, particularly since you're playing against folks who haven't been on that break.   Frustrating, yes.  Maddening as they pull out tricks you haven't seen, yes.  Just power through and learn, taking your lumps of initiation and you'll be great in short order.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yep.

Thanks guys, ill let you know how it goes 

[Musashi]

Hahaha.  This should be good.

Dude.  Don't level prot.  For the love of god.  Arms or Fury.  Also, don't PvP as prot. 

Don't take this at face value. At your level, Bloodworth, prot is a bad PVP spec. It is NOT a bad leveling spec though and hasn't been for years, and it can be extremely powerful in pvp at higher levels.

Come on man.  I'll give you that it is now possible to level prot.  But it's not really a good idea.  I leveled my third warrior like four months ago.  I went arms, and I made a prot spec as soon as I could in case I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to do an instance.  So I'll own up to having no idea at lowbie levels.  But there's no comparison post 40.  None.  Arms kills twice as fast.  I'm going to say fury is similar.  I hardly even had to eat and I was just raping the shit out of everything.  Granted I had an Arcanite Reaper and both the shoulders and chest.  But everything else was green quest reward crap, and of course I was wearing the shoulders and chest in both specs.  If you like prot, cool.  But it's not a good leveling spec.  It's just better than it used to be.  And that's not good, it's sad.

[Mrbloodworth]

Much better now (Talent changes + armor), other then the pass through, and bliping gnomes, and the lack of LOS on spells hurled at me.   I had a bunch of points I had not used yet.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

A spell should only hit you when you're out of LOS if the spell was cast before you got there. Unless what you thought was a real obstacle was not. Trees, for instance, do not block LOS for some reason. I cast through trees all the time.

[Fordel]

Come on man.  I'll give you that it is now possible to level prot.  But it's not really a good idea.  I leveled my third warrior like four months ago.  I went arms, and I made a prot spec as soon as I could in case I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to do an instance.  So I'll own up to having no idea at lowbie levels.  But there's no comparison post 40.  None.  Arms kills twice as fast.  I'm going to say fury is similar.  I hardly even had to eat and I was just raping the shit out of everything.  Granted I had an Arcanite Reaper and both the shoulders and chest.  But everything else was green quest reward crap, and of course I was wearing the shoulders and chest in both specs.  If you like prot, cool.  But it's not a good leveling spec.  It's just better than it used to be.  And that's not good, it's sad.

What did you have for your 1h/shield weapon? My warrior has done 1-50+ now as prot and its just as fast as either arms or fury and three times as survivable. He has an BoA 1h'er though, and any heirloom weapon makes a warrior OP as shit while leveling.

Also, what is this 'eating' you speak of  

[Ingmar]

Hahaha.  This should be good.

Dude.  Don't level prot.  For the love of god.  Arms or Fury.  Also, don't PvP as prot. 

Don't take this at face value. At your level, Bloodworth, prot is a bad PVP spec. It is NOT a bad leveling spec though and hasn't been for years, and it can be extremely powerful in pvp at higher levels.

Come on man.  I'll give you that it is now possible to level prot.  But it's not really a good idea.  I leveled my third warrior like four months ago.  I went arms, and I made a prot spec as soon as I could in case I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to do an instance.  So I'll own up to having no idea at lowbie levels.  But there's no comparison post 40.  None.  Arms kills twice as fast.  I'm going to say fury is similar.  I hardly even had to eat and I was just raping the shit out of everything.  Granted I had an Arcanite Reaper and both the shoulders and chest.  But everything else was green quest reward crap, and of course I was wearing the shoulders and chest in both specs.  If you like prot, cool.  But it's not a good leveling spec.  It's just better than it used to be.  And that's not good, it's sad.

Arms *might* be faster 40-50, but once prot gets shockwave there's no comparison, it kills nearly as fast on single targets, much faster on multiple targets, has far less downtime, and can easily take on many group quests by itself where the other specs just die. I'd never recommend anyone level as anything BUT protection after shockwave becomes available, and that's not even counting how much faster your dungeon queues are.

[Sjofn]

"Far less downtime" cannot be stressed enough for the higher level protection warrior. I never, ever, ever, ever had to stop killing to eat or bandage when I leveled my protection warrior from 70 to 80.

[Shrike]

"Far less downtime" cannot be stressed enough for the higher level protection warrior. I never, ever, ever, ever had to stop killing to eat or bandage when I leveled my protection warrior from 70 to 80.

70 to 80 as a prot warrior is a whole 'nother animal. It's sick. My night elf warrior went from 63 to 80 strictly as prot and it was very easy. I'd venture so far as to say it's optimal for leveling in Northrend. Almost no downtime, crushed elites with no trouble, and insta-queue dungeons. What's not to like?