Incivility/Griefing on the rise?

[Xanthippe]

I don't know if my battlegroup is unique for this or what, but there's apparently a number of people who enjoy frustrating people trying to get their Children's Week achievement in battlegrounds.

Trade chat is completely out of control.  I remember people reporting others for saying "fuck" when WoW launched.  That's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking full-fledged porn recitations of things I didn't even know existed, much less discussed publicly.  Racist speech.

And it's not rare, it happens every day on my server - Korgath, in the Vengeance battlegroup.

Is this happening on all servers, in all battlegroups?  If not, I need a transfer, because I'm really tired of this shit.

[Rendakor]

I'm on Andorhal in the Stormstrike battlegroup, and this doesn't happen a lot. Although I don't do BGs so I don't know what happens there, trade chat rarely has any profanity.

[Arrrgh]

Have you tried right clicking their name and reporting spam? Puts the whole account on ignore.

In Stormstrike /trade is pretty bad, but they generally don't infest any of the other channels.

I haven't tried the orphan BG quests.

[Rasix]

My server's trade chat had been an ever increasing cesspool by the time I stopped playing about a month ago. It's been maxed out for a while though.  Most of of it's of the racist/racist-political nature (a lot of "that n-gger Obama" shit).  Swearing and sex stuff had been around for a while.  It's just a trend toward a generally younger, less educated population.  Finding a guild without a heavy infestation of these types of morons was an exercise in frustration, although they mostly fill up the ranks of the bad rep 2nd tier and 3rd tier failure-soon-to-disband-and-reform-again guilds.  The top guild on the server has been known to occasionally accept this type when they start running low on warm bodies due to general WoW burnout and attrition of members to more populated servers.  By the time I had quit this most recent time, /trade and /general were off.

Luckily I didn't have to due dungeons with most of these folks to the RDF, but holidays and WG were always a bucket of shit.

edit: this is a low pop PVE server. FYI.

[Ingmar]

Korgath is a PVP server, right? My (admittedly limited) experience with PVP servers in WoW is that they tend to have a bit higher component of that sort of thing.

None of the servers I play on regularly are as bad as some other places I've seen, but that isn't to say that they are great in that respect either. I have no real use for the trade channel personally so I tend to just leave it anyway.

[Merusk]

I noticed it on Alleria a long time ago.  Yes, lots of cursing, lots of racisim and stuff that makes Arcadian's joke about the French look like a knock-knock joke that goes on day after day.  I stopped reporting when I noticed the last 3 players who'd been spewing the N-word and cursing in /trade like it was a frathouse were still members of the server with functional accounts.

Hell, I knew of a few 'infamous' trolls who'd talk openly about child molestation and drug use just to get banned in BC/ early WOTLK, and they'd be back a few days later.  I only know of one of them who got his account perma-banned and that's because he finally mouthed-off to one of the upper-tier GMs.  I know this because he was back a few days later with a new account, talking about it again.

PVE server, been around since launch day and was high-pop but is closer to mid-high these days since Premonition left.

[Fordel]

I notice stupid more then anything. Like, Time Cube levels of retarded.

[Selby]

I am in the Vengeance battlegroup too and there have been a ton of complaints about griefers ruining people's fun and attempts for achievements.  It's not just the Alliance vs. Horde thing, but our own side has even been giving their own people grief over wanting to get the achievement (specifically denying them as much as possible).  Trade chat is always stupid though, people yell and scream at each other and last night argued over how "gay" GS was for over an hour.  I mean, seriously people.

[Lantyssa]

Imagine that.  You make a year-long achievement (or multi-year if you miss something) for a very fancy mount dependent upon other players for completion, and it goes badly.

I gave up after a few attempts.  No amount of aggravation is worth a silly mount, and I really like their look.  If it makes you want to throw your monitor, it's a poor idea.

[Selby]

No amount of aggravation is worth a silly mount, and I really like their look.

This is why I went to the Uld-10 hard mode route for the fancy-pants mount.  Granted Firefighter is a giant pain in the neck, but it's doable and doesn't require the rest of the server to decide not to grief me.

[Fordel]

When I did it last year, both sides were actively co-operating with each other. I would go to the horde flag room in WSG, emote my intentions, then pick up and drop the flag for everyone who needed an orphan. Someone from the Horde side would go to our end and do the same, once both sides had their Orphan flag retrieves, the droppers would be killed off and the game would start as normal.


Very similar situations played out in AB, but it was less formalized since assaulting but immediately recapping is much less of an impact on the game. Usually just 1 or 2 random guys would come to the quiet node on the map and ask for a quick assault and then leave.



EotS didn't have interaction cooperation as much as it had a total shift in the meta-game. Instead of the normal focus on capping as many bases as possible, we shifted into 1 base flag control until everyone on our side got credit. Usually the runners would just relay the flag to the Orphans at the tower to speed things up.



AV was the only real crap shoot, 40 people, 4 towers, that isn't very good odds and you wouldn't see much cooperation across factions in this one, recapping a tower in AV can cost the game itself. I got it on my second AV by sprinting up the tower in catmode.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I had very little trouble completing this last year. The flag returning one would have been the biggest pain in the ass but everyone in the BG was doing it so it turned into a big cooperation fest.

I would guess that the reason it isn't going well for people this year is most people who were inclined to do it, did it last year, so the number of people interested in trading caps or whatever is a lower percentage of the people running BGs. The newfound popularity of the random BG queue probably also increases the % of people who are just there for normal PVP instead of achievements.

[Merusk]

This weekend saw all kinds of cooperation on the actual event, according to my wife.  Towers in AV where folks stood there swapping, people running into the FR in WSG picking up and then dropping the flag, etc.   

Now, however, it's later in the week and the assmunches want you to get out and stop fucking up 'their' BGs.

[Sjofn]

I turned off trade on Doomhammer a while ago, but it was entirely due to stupidity making my eyes bleed rather than anything offensive. I don't know if that's changed or not. I actually still have it turned on when I play on Moon Guard and haven't seen anything terrible (although it's a RP server where the warning to NEVER GO TO GOLDSHIRE is super duper extra true).

[Lantyssa]

It's a stupid achievement either way.  "We want you to PvP for this."  So you either cooperate with the enemy to succeed, or fight your own side and the enemy to get it.  And if you have my kind of luck and an already existing aversion to PvP...  The browbeating from my own side didn't help any.

Maybe if Blizzard provided free opiates for the week It'd happen.

[WindupAtheist]

Guilty.

I don't care about your achievement, or some silly e-peen mount that the real e-peeners laugh at, that will cut 30 seconds off the average flight after you spend an entire year jumping through hoops to get it. I'm trying to play the fucking game I paid for. I'll gank the friendly hordie you're having an emote party with and teabag his zero-resilience keyboard-turning ass.

Or at least I would last year when I was playing.

[Ingmar]

The things that get you the achievement are all things in theory you should be trying to do anyway in a BG - I'm just terrible at clicking the flag fast enough to be the first one to return it usually.

[Musashi]

Guilty.

I don't care about your achievement, or some silly e-peen mount that the real e-peeners laugh at, that will cut 30 seconds off the average flight after you spend an entire year jumping through hoops to get it. I'm trying to play the fucking game I paid for. I'll gank the friendly hordie you're having an emote party with and teabag his zero-resilience keyboard-turning ass.

Or at least I would last year when I was playing.

And for this you can roll with me any day.

Just go easy on the lore.

[Lantyssa]

I wouldn't blame you, WUA.  One thing the PvPers who stomped on me and I agreed upon:  Neither of us wanted me to be there.

The things that get you the achievement are all things in theory you should be trying to do anyway in a BG - I'm just terrible at clicking the flag fast enough to be the first one to return it usually.

Certainly.  Of course if you never PvP, you're going to be exceptionally bad at it, quite possibly have no clue what's going on, and be so far behind the gear curve that you might as well be walking into ICC in Northrend quest blues.  Sure you can be carried, but in a PUG?  Who wants to do that?  Now do it with PvPers who are naturally competitive and cross-server BGs...

[Sjofn]

If it had been me, I would have the PvP orphan achievements exist, I just wouldn't have them for the meta. Crazy, I know.

[Malakili]

I'm not sure, I turned off all my public channels years ago.

[Hutch]

1) All of my public channels are stashed away in a custom tab (I named it "Spam"). That way I can go look if one of my guildmates notices something funny in there.

2) I helped one of my guildies get the AV thing last night. The single most aggravating part was waiting for 20 minutes in the queue. Once we were in, the alli and horde were letting each other cap the flags back and forth in the middle of the battle field, and I didn't notice anyone getting ganked. Although someone must have, because I picked up 7 hk's without firing a shot.

2a) I finished this whole thing off last year, so I wouldn't have bothered at all, except my guildmate is about to go into cataract surgery, so she was having trouble navigating the map in AV. Go go motorcycle sidecar :)

[Minvaren]

1) All of my public channels are stashed away in a custom tab (I named it "Spam"). That way I can go look if one of my guildmates notices something funny in there.

I keep trade on so I can tell if someone's alt is doing ($old_raid_that_noone_does_anymore) for the achievement.  Well, for them, the gear.  That's about it.  Unfortunately, my IQ has suffered greatly as a result, and I fear mention of the word "anal" as well.

That said, PvP requirements for World Event achievements make Baby Jesus cry. 

[Ingmar]

I think the fairly minimal amount of PVP required for the meta mount is OK. It is part of the game, and a 310% mount should require *something* that takes a bit of effort beyond just 'wait for next event, farm daily quest' type activity. Having the PVP things in there shakes it up nicely. I do think in some cases they could stand to tweak the actual requirements to something a little less random than a flag return or an AV tower cap - HKs, killing blows, etc., that sort of thing would be easier to achieve for the people who are only in it for the mount, while still asking them to do something that contributes to the experience of the people who want to be there anyway.

[Lantyssa]

I'd be fine with that, too, seeing as I did  Santa's Little Helper in a single WG.  The current choices though?  Stupid for a variety of reasons.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, it needs to be "win one of each BG" or "score X kills" with your orphan out. Not shit that encourages people to call a halt to the game so they can take turns picking up and dropping the flag or whatever.

[Xanthippe]

Guilty.

I don't care about your achievement, or some silly e-peen mount that the real e-peeners laugh at, that will cut 30 seconds off the average flight after you spend an entire year jumping through hoops to get it. I'm trying to play the fucking game I paid for. I'll gank the friendly hordie you're having an emote party with and teabag his zero-resilience keyboard-turning ass.

Or at least I would last year when I was playing.

I don't have a problem with anything you do, if you're not on my side, or if you're killing the other side, or if you're playing the bg as normal.

Here's what I'm complaining about.

I get into an EOTS.  I buff everyone with greater blessings (I always do this; lately I've noticed that I'm about the only pally who buffs everyone).  I announce that I'd like to get my orphan achievement done, so would appreciate any cooperation given toward that.  I go to the center, and play (fight, heal, rebuff, cc).

Mr. Druid comes along and grabs the flag a hair before I do, takes it to a base, and sits on it the entire game.  We have 3 towers.  I'm still fighting, and ask Mr. Druid to cap flag so I can grab it.

Instead, I get taunted by Mr. Rogue for being an achievement weinie who gives props to Mr. Druid for hanging onto the flag, despite us having 3 bases and the center.

That's the sort of griefing I'm talking about.  It - or something similar - happened in 3 of 3 EOTS bgs so I quit playing a few days ago. 

[pxib]

It's the only way a player can express power in a game which has all but forbidden such displays. Folks are desperate to show how much better they are than somebody and the simplification of gameplay and largely gear-based power curve have made that supremely difficult to do. Stealing the drop somebody's been waiting for or screwing up their attempt at an acheivement is all that's left. It's like the folks who get shit on all day at work and then go four-alarm apeshit at a video store clerk because they TURNED THAT IN ON TIME AND YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE.

Weak, desperate people who feel powerless choose stupid, hurtful places to make a stand.

[Ingmar]

Or people who speed up to block you when you signal a lane change.

Honestly you're probably better off not announcing it at the start.

[Xanthippe]

Yes, the next two games I didn't announce it, but I did have my orphan out.  Taunted still, in /bg chat.

This is why I was asking if the obnoxious behavior I'm seeing is special to my server/battlegroup, or if it's everywhere these days. 

I have zero desire to play an MMO in such a community.

[pxib]

I imagine it's hard to sustain positive community cross-server. It's easy to be obnoxious and hard to be noble when you know you'll never see somebody again.

[Selby]

When my guild runs heroics we always try to be polite and educate people, even though we will likely never see them again.  Because other people aren't so forgiving and become raging douchebags.

[Musashi]

I've just learned to accept the lack of civility, and try to enjoy myself in spite of it.

[Setanta]

My characters are on Blackrock (PvP) and Proudmoore (PvE) - both part of the Bloodlust group and there was minimal fuss over achievements - other than to mess up our own sides achievements because they interfered with our game. I don't care about achievements and if someone enters a PvP ground, they are there to PvP. If you get your achievement then kudos to you, but I'm not going to make it easy for you because your death is my purpose for being there (as well as flags, relics, towers etc).

The PvP achievements are silly but then again, in a pixellated world that will one-day shut down, I see all achievements as something silly to grind for (proto-drake or not). But that's a personal philosophy and not shared by the majority of WoW players.

[apocrypha]

The incivility certainly seems to have been on the rise over the last 2-3 weeks on my battlegroup (Cyclone, EU). I've been working more or less full time for the first time for a while, so I only have time/energy for 1 or two random heroics of an evening, and I think I've managed below 50% completion rate during this time.

All the usual bad group stuff but coupled with more rudeness and idiocy than normal - no mean feat! Of course it may also be that my tolerance is low due to tiredness and pain, but others in my guild have noticed it too.

I'm wondering if the recent increase in Cataclysm information has made people impatient, or even started to make some of them realise that all their uber gear is soon going to be vendor trash...