Nvidia 3D Vision

[Kageh]

"Intuitive" 3D aiming is the one thing I'm still struggling with. I can't get the replacement "3D Vision driver aiming cursor" to work with W7 64-bit, and so I'm firing largely "by sight".

Driving/fighting games transitioned very smoothly to 3D play for me.

EDIT: clarification

[Sky]

The cursor seemed ok in TF2, but I play demoman, so I'm not really using the cursor... Based on the 2d cursor in Torchlight, though, I can see where it would be pretty bad. Haven't played with nvidia's laser sight.

The only thing that bugged me about Burnout was the breaking items flying into the camera were really distracting. Might have to play with the settings so there's not as much popout on them.

[Sky]

Finally found my Dawn of Discovery manual, game is gorgeous in 3d. Really, really nice. The detail and all the little dudes doing their thing is just amazing. Text is a bit tough to read at times (does he want 3 wood or 8 wood?), but I might need to tweak the tv set a bit. Map's a bit tougher to read for some reason. But wow, in the top three so far.

Tomb Raider: Underworld. Holy crap. Probably the best thus far. Amazing looking game and the 3d really improves gameplay imo. Read a forum post where a guy keeps his depth about 65% and then tweaks convergence to make it look good: I'm still learning how all that works, but it works in this title. Pulled back the convergence a bit and bam, everything is stunning and immersion is at crazy levels.

Far Cry 2. This one is both amazing and a shame. The 2d screen effect when you have malaria at the beginning is pretty bad...but when the antagonist points his pistol at you and it comes three feet out of the screen..just wow. The game world is incredible, much more immersive. Two big problems. One is the effects, smoke and fire are not rendered in 3d, so they shimmer and look really odd. The other is the gun sights, I'm trying to play with convergence to get them working properly. I got the pistol to a perfect convergence and then got an assault rifle and the back sight of the rifle was perfect but the front sight was off. Might have to tweak depth, I dunno. Those together may or may not be a deal-breaker, I'll have to play with it more, because the overall effect is so damned good in 3d.

LotRO isn't supported and looks bad. Might be able to tweak it to work, but I don't care for the game. Rumor is EQ2's team is working on support (woofrigginhoo!). More feedback as I work through some other stuff.

[Cyrrex]

Good updates.

I signed up for a WoW trial just to see how it looked in 3D.  Pretty good, but it seems to have a lot of problems with the UI stuff....you get your tool bar set up and converged properly, and every thing looks perfect on screen - then you open up your map or journal and can't read a damn thing.  There doesn't seem to be any sweet spot unless you dial the depth all the way down, which I think detracts too much.

For grins, I think I'll install the original Far Cry and see how that works (it's one of my favorite all time shooters, so what the hell).

[Kageh]

The UI problem with WoW is a bug that was introduced by NVidia when they fixed support for the Avatar game. Fix is in the works, but has been "in the works" for quite some time, if you know what I mean. The temporary solution is to revert to a driver somewhere pre-October 2009.

[Sky]

Spore. Had to drop the depth and tweak the convergence alot on this one, due to the floaty parts in the creature creator. So the 3d effect isn't quite as pronounced, and some of the games I've had issues with will probably also need to be dialed back a bit, which kinda sucks. I hope when things are more widely implemented, depth will be better overall. Also, moving to 1080p is a separate issue, the ui and icons are tiny as hell. LotRO's UI scaling ftw. Anyway, back to the 3d report.

Dragon Age. Well, my newbie mage was in his harrowing, the fade effects are tough on the eyes, same as the malaria effects in Far Cry 2. But it was looking ok. Had to set the convergence for much less popout because for some reason in conversations some npcs would be sitting uncomfortably outside the screen, but the text bar that sat on the 'window' would seem behind them but of course is actually in front of them on the screen. I've read popout isn't as good on LCD, I dunno. There was one scene talking to a sloth demon where they'd go to the reverse angle (my character speaking) and the demon's horns stuck a couple feet out into the room, and there was that gun-pointing sequence in Far Cry 2's intro that was eye-popping. I hope you guys are getting that level of popout, even if it has to be dialed back every now and again.

Anyway, as is the problem with most games, name tags are 2d so I had to pull depth way back to about 25%, and it was still a little odd. When you hit tab for item names at the 65% or so depth I like to play at, the tags were tough to match up to the item. I'd say the three biggest problems are name tag-type text, crosshairs, and 2d effects (like the smoke and fire in Far Cry 2). As an interesting aside, it definitely shows which devs and engines cut corners in the 3d engine.

Assassin's Creed. After setting up the damned controller (wasn't this game on the 360? Why are 360 buttons listed as button 1,2,etc? Bleh), the game didn't seem to have a ton of depth. It was late and maybe I forgot to bump up the depth from the last two games. I haven't played it, so by the time I got the controller set up and got through the tutorial I was not feeling like tweaking the 3d settings, and luckily the game crashed and I called it a night.

[Cyrrex]

Anyway, as is the problem with most games, name tags are 2d so I had to pull depth way back to about 25%, and it was still a little odd. When you hit tab for item names at the 65% or so depth I like to play at, the tags were tough to match up to the item. I'd say the three biggest problems are name tag-type text, crosshairs, and 2d effects (like the smoke and fire in Far Cry 2). As an interesting aside, it definitely shows which devs and engines cut corners in the 3d engine.

That seems to about sum up the problem areas with this tech.  There's really only so much they can do about these issues for past games, but for newer games I think we'll see less and less of this.  Left 4 Dead, for example...I don't know if it was built with 3D tech in mind, but it doesn't seem to have much problem with any 2d effects, and its own crosshairs work perfectly.  There is still a minor issue with a some 2D text over character names, but it's not a detractor.  Overall, I'd call that game virtually issue-free (even the framerate scales nicely).  I understand that Resident Evil 5 is one of the few fully compatible games, so I might have to give that a shot at some point.

Original Far Cry, by the way, is pretty sweet in 3D.  Great depth, minimal framerate issues and very little of the dodgy 2D effect.  Crosshair is the only issue that has stood out.  I understand why the don't have it, but I wish games had an option to turn off the damn crosshairs.

[Sky]

Played some more TF2 last night. It's too bad I suck so bad at that game (especially vs players who've been at it for years on the same maps). It looks so good in 3d vision. I'd really like to check out LfD/LfD2, but same as TF2, online shooters aren't very fun unless you're good at them :)

Loaded up Borderlands. Looks great in 3d, new cursor seems to work fine. Unfortunately, it's the first game where the framerates made it unplayable. Going to have to see what settings I missed, since just about every other game is playable (just makes my gpu run wicked hot).

[Thrawn]

Before reading this thead I assumed 3D gaming was still gimmicky and meh.  Now I find myself trying to convince that me getting a new moniter is good for her too because she'll get my current on then. :)

[Thrawn]

"Concince my wife" shehs, I need to quit making posts from my phone at work.

[Sky]

Shehs  

Ok, last night and this morning getting around to actually playing games! Tomb Raider works so well, I'm starting there. Played for a bit last night and the fiance walked in and laughed at the goofy glasses. Then I had her try them out, she was surprised how comfortable they were over her glasses. Then I started playing (which without the glasses on took me back to the band days of navigating under the influence of half a bottle of Yukon Jack), her comment "Oh wow, that is really cool!". I had her close one eye to see the normal "2d 3d" and she really liked the 3d effect.

This morning I played a bit more with convergence. Again, about 65% depth. Last night I was playing on the game profile default convergence, and it's cool that way. Then I remembered one guy's idea of dialing convergence on the avatar. With Tomb Raider, I set the camera to the default follow distance from Lara, then took off the glasses and dialed in convergence so she was converged to the naked eye. This centers her in the 3d world, so things behind her will pop out more.

It really adds a ton of depth imo, and overall I like the effect...but it does take some getting used to and it's not perfect. With convergence set like that, when the camera comes up against a wall and zooms into Lara, it's difficult (impossible?) to focus on her and the background, which when you think about it is kind of realistic. One or the other is in focus depending on where you're focusing. And some close objects popping out can have exaggerated overlap, if it's near the edge of the screen you might see it with one eye and not the other. But overall, I feel like it really enhances the 3d effect and I'm going to try to get used to playing like that.

I'll link a few 3d screenshots I took. The first one is Lara looking out over a large room. This kinda demonstrates the effect of being close to a wall, she's out of convergence by about half. The second and third shots are the same scene. Second shot is with my new convergence setting based on the default camera distance, the third is converged on Lara herself (which you can see without the glasses).

edit: Sorry about file size, gotta learn how to set the driver to take jps instead of pns!

[Lantyssa]

The heck is PNS file anyways?  Probably want to convert it if you want anyone to actually see what you're talking about.

[Sky]

PNS = PNG stereo. It's two png files that a stereo picture viewer puts together to make a 3d image. Unfortunately, I think you'll need the glasses to see it, unless there's a program that can translate it into anaglyph (red & blue).

JPS would be JPG stereo, so smaller file size.

[Cyrrex]

Interesting...the third screen is by far the most pleasing to the eyes.  I'd never thought of trying that, but then I don't know if I've had the right game to do it with.

While we're on it, are you playing that game with a 360 controller?  It looks amazing, but I can't imagine trying it with mouse and keyboard.

[Sky]

Yeah, 360 controller. The 3rd screen shows the difficulty of that nice convergence method, because the 2nd shot is set up with convergence on Lara using the default camera distance. All three shots are closer than the default distance, the first two using my regular convergence (on Lara at default) and the third tweaked to converge on Lara from the closer camera distance of the shot, to highlight the ideal convergence.

It's not horrid in the game, there are a few places where it really gets bothersome, but they're fleeting. Cutscenes, however, are awful. It's like someone standing too close to your face. If you watch cut-scenes through one eye it's not too bad :) I'm thinking maybe avatar-depth convergence and then dial it back a few notches. Shame, because avatar-depth convergence seems to be the best for the 3d effect in general.

[Sky]

My problem with Anno 1404 is pretty much the 1080p resolution making text hard to read, especially in 3d mode. I have a very slight screen bow on the DLP, so the edges are about a half pixel off...a non-issue for anything but Anno 1404 which has tiny, unscalable text along the sides (and fixed in 2d mode by the tv's guts). Too bad because the game is gorgeous in 3d, shouldn't be a problem for folks using regular monitors up close. Some shots: birdies, larger city, new settlement. For convergence (again, 65% depth), I increase convergence until it looks odd against the UI, then decrease it slowly until it's just beyond the oddness. The third shot I linked is the kind I would use to dial that in, with the trees right under the minimap.

On a whim I decided to install Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, an unsupported title. It actually looks really good...except the fire and smoke effects. While not being 2d like Far Cry 2 (shame on them), there's some weird rotating bounding box. Not sure if it's just cosmetic or if later on it will affect gameplay. I could probably live with it. Here's a screen of it chopping thor in half.

And a gratuitous Lara shot.

Installing Fallout 3 now. Some time this week I want to see if Fireworks will handle 3d image conversion, I don't have a copy at home. So another apology for the pns file format!

[Sky]

Fallout 3 seems good. I'll have to get my savegames brought over from my XP machines, forgot how loong the tutorial is. Have to pull convergence way back due to the pipboy and some overlay elements. Still looks great but doesn't have the depth (so to speak, depth setting 65% as usual) of Tomb Raider. Pipboy is rendered in 3d and looks cool, though. More on this one later, since other than appearing a bit shallow it seems to play nice with the 3d tech.

Medieval 2. Didn't work with my 720p monitor and the fiance is a fan of the time period, so this one will probably get a workout. Looks great in 3d, haven't messed with convergence yet. Getting behind archers when they unleash a volley...or better yet, watching the volley hit the targets from behind...I hope I can push the convergence with this one, because it's  My biggest fear is that I won't get much 3d time with it because the fiance will want to watch.

[Cyrrex]

Well...buy her a pair of glasses!  Only 180 bucks!

[Tarami]

fiance

I didn't know you swung that way. Maybe you do. Maybe you swing both ways. Who knows. You?

[Sky]

Eh, I didn't realize the spelling made a difference. I have more shoes than she does. 

[Sky]

My problem with Anno 1404 is pretty much the 1080p resolution making text hard to read, especially in 3d mode. I have a very slight screen bow on the DLP, so the edges are about a half pixel off...a non-issue for anything but Anno 1404 which has tiny, unscalable text along the sides (and fixed in 2d mode by the tv's guts).

Got the service menu and turned off geometry correction, screen is now sharp in both 2d and 3d modes, what a difference. Thank god I don't mind fucking with the service menu :) TV was set up so oddly out of the box.

Anyway, Anno 1404 is better, but I still think I'd play it in 2d because although the text is now sharp, the shutter glasses add some odd shimmer effect, making it difficult to read a few things. I feel like a grandpa looking over my glasses to read the occasional bit of text.

[Sky]

With the new expansion, SOE put in the dev cycles to get the UI working in 3d. Works good, name tag depth was one of my main concerns and it works perfectly. Really good job at the implementation, even if there are still a few bugs like some shaders acting wonky. Most older titles have that, though. Biggest problem is when I logged in I felt like I was looking at EQ1, I think the game engine is finally showing its age. I know others have said that for a while, but I don't play as many slick graphical games. Jumping from Tomb Raider's lush environments to EQ2 is pretty jarring. And then I look at my character's quest log and the long line of heroic cockblocks....but that's another story...

Still mostly playing Tomb Raider Underworld in 3d, it's so amazing. If you don't own it and have the 3d setup, go buy it (I got it in the steam sale last year). Decided to go non-3d with Anno1404 because the text is kind of hard to read with 3d on, but it's still being crashy for me, was stable under XP :(

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, I'm actually considering that game based on your comments here.

For grins, I downloaded the EVE client and a free 14 day trial.  I logged on for like ten minutes, just to check out the 3d implementation.  It would take some getting used to, but space in 3d is pretty cool.  The UI all remains 2D, which is a great idea up until the point that you realize that the cursor is as well....so, a 2d cursor that needs to select 3d objects in space.  A bit problematic, but I'm sure one could get used to it.  Not sure if I can motivate myself to slog through any more of that game, though.  It's the kind of game that I should love, but I just can't seem to want to dedicate the time to learning it all.

And I know I mentioned it already, but Far Cry (the original) in 3D really kicks ass.  Of course, part of that is simply because I've long considered it the best pure PC shooter (miles better than 2, IMO).  Really, though, the 3D implementation is nice...crawling around through the bushes playing cat and mouse with the AI is cool as hell.

[Sky]

I've got to find my other install disc, I was going to install Far Cry over the weekend. Love that game, too.

[Furiously]

I made some red/blue glasses last night and tried a couple games.  I found myself trying to peer around corners when things popped out. Dunno if it will be the next big thing or not. I'd prefer projected images in a fog cloud or something for real 3d.

[Cyrrex]

You can't really compare the red/blue version of 3D verus the active shutter/LCD tech.  It's really not even close.  And by the way, all the noise you are going to start hearing about 3D TV is this very same technology we're talking about in this thread.  I don't know if it's the next big thing, but be clear about this much:  this is no gimmick.  When it works as it is meant to, it is quite something to behold.

[Lantyssa]

And if you're someone it works for.  Mostly it gives me a headache.

[Cyrrex]

Yes, it's either something you'll get used to, or you are one of those people who can't take the 60hz flicker alternating in each eye.  Even though it doesn't give me a headache, I still have to get used to wearing it.

[Sky]

I don't notice anything funky visually unless it's sunny out, the bright light through the french doors flickers a bit. Close the shade on the one closer to the tv and it goes away.

Haven't found a workaround for the fiancee laughing at how dorky the glasses, though. Played another bit of Tomb Raider letting her wear the glasses, she really likes the tech and it fits comfortably over her glasses (part of why they look so dorky, they're like those boxy shades old people wear over their glasses).

[Sky]

Mentioned earlier I've done some time with EQ2 in 3D. It's a pretty good implementation, even if the game isn't as conducive to 3D as something like Tomb Raider. Scalable UI = good for 1080p, because as with Anno 1404, the text can be hard to read in 3d mode. Still trying to scale up a few elements, but mostly good. Main problem is that the game is really dark and playing with the gamma/brightness/contrast isn't getting to to look good and also bright enough to see indoors/at night. Also, I find I quickly glance at my keyboard a lot while playing (Ice Comet on the 6 key) and the glasses are too dark to see it in a darkened room, so I'm looking under them like I have bifocals or something. Not really problems with EQ2, but more my setup, I guess.

A couple EQ2 shots:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/EverQuest2001.pns
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/EverQuest2002.pns

Note the 3d name tags in the second shot. I'll get a conversation shot if I remember, the text bubble and answer buttons are also on the 3D plane of the speaker, so you can stand in front of them and block it, or the speaker can lunge through during an idle animation. The Iksar lunging idle animation is pretty cool in 3D.

And of course more Tomb Raider!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/tru007.pns
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/tru008.pns
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/tru009.pns

Putting this up as a test. I just made the pns into a png, exported as jpg and renamed it jps. Hope it works, file size on pns is pretty bloaty.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3667682/EverQuest2001.jps

[Prospero]

I just pulled the trigger on a new 23"/120 hz monitor and the nVidia googles. I can't wait to see this stuff in action!

[Cyrrex]

Hooray!  Welcome to the club.  Of dorks.

[Cyrrex]

So after a quick test, I have determined that my beloved projector is actually compatible with 3D!  Turns out that for some reason, many older 85hz DLP projectors work.  I think there will be more issues in general (Far Cry didn't appear to properly render colors in each eye), but this is potentially hugely awesome.

[Sky]

That's cool. I've mostly been playing FFH2, and due to some odd bug with city name tags I haven't been using the glasses with it. Sucks because it's such a tiny bug, only city name tags and only when zooming, they switch between proper placement and being offset to the left slightly, with the biggest problem being sometimes when you stop zooming they stay in the offset position. And I zoom in and out like mad.

Also been playing a little Far Cry 2, that games looks great, even if the fire and smoke effects are wonky.

FFH2 really inhibits my playing of other games, dernit.

[Cyrrex]

Apparently, there will be some 3D streaming of the Masters this weekend for people with "3D ready computers."  I think that's us.  I'm going to see if I can figure it out.  They're also doing it for television.