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Author Topic: Some decent tier lists have been posted..  (Read 24710 times)
Hoax
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on: January 25, 2010, 02:23:00 PM

Elementz, 5v5 blind pick draft mode tier list, updated right after 1.0.0.99:

Tier 1: Ezreal, Amumu, Morgana, Garen, Taric, Shen, Kayle
Tier 2: Vladimir, Sion, Annie, Kennen, Kog'Maw , Udyr, Janna, Nasus, Warwick, Tristana, Nidalee, Shaco, Ashe, Sivir, Zilean, Xin Zhao, Veigar, Rammus, Pantheon.
Tier 3: Poppy, Twitch, Heimerdinger, Kassadin, Gragas, Twisted Fate, Anivia, Singed, Akali, Mordekaiser, Olaf, Alistar, Katarina, Yi, Galio, Gangplank, Nunu, Karthus.
Tier 4: Malphite, Ryze, Jax, Soraka, Blitzcrank, Corki, Fiddlesticks
Hard to place on a team: Urgot, Eve, Teemo, Mal'zahar, Tryndamere, Cho'Gath, Mundo
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 12:10:33 AM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Thrawn
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Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 02:34:11 PM

Suprised Blitz isn't higher, suprised Teemo is listed as fairly worthless.
I'm assuming Udyr so low is a result of his nerf.

Also I think we need a good Corki and/or Fiddle player in our usual lineup of players if we want to start winning more games.  I'd happily learn any champion, but I think for team play I'm probably better off sticking with Alistar and improving my TF game.  (still keep bouncing back and forth between AP and damage)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Astorax
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Reply #2 on: January 25, 2010, 02:59:45 PM

Suprised Blitz isn't higher, suprised Teemo is listed as fairly worthless.
I'm assuming Udyr so low is a result of his nerf.

Also I think we need a good Corki and/or Fiddle player in our usual lineup of players if we want to start winning more games.  I'd happily learn any champion, but I think for team play I'm probably better off sticking with Alistar and improving my TF game.  (still keep bouncing back and forth between AP and damage)


Prospero mentioned you guys are playin mostly nightly and I'll hop into the mix now too...I'm starting to learn Fiddle and should be up to speed pretty quick.  I also play a pretty mean Sivir.
Thrawn
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Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 03:10:29 PM

Maybe I'm alone on this but I'd really like to start taking most of my team queue games more seriously.  Actually know who everyone is going to play before we go, have a good team figured out with lots of disables, have better communication etc. etc.

I always reach this point in most games I play, where I need to either start playing it more seriously or I'll just get too bored of it and quit playing.  awesome, for real

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
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Reply #4 on: January 25, 2010, 03:20:49 PM

Guess I'll give CM a go today or tomorrow.
Thrawn
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Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 03:23:12 PM

I'm assuming from the first list he considers Twisted Fate, Fiddlesticks, Sivir, Alistar, Corki to be the "best" team.  why so serious?

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Prospero
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Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 03:45:45 PM

Hoax
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Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 03:55:25 PM

/\/\/\/\/\/\  I looked him up and didn't post him.  While he's been around and isn't completely retarded I agree with Mesiah's response and judging from his viewable stats (7X wins 10 leaves, L24 - not ranked in the top500 last time they posted it) I figured it wasn't worth adding.  Its a good example of how the top is the top for sure but it gets more and more perception based on who/how you play as you go to the lower tiers.

I think the first list does go left to right on the individual tiers.  I should have linked the posts because both went into detail about what the tiers meant and under what circumstances.

Bottom line though TF is godlike (no surprise) since he does things nobody else can, ditto for Sivir with her pushing and her ult.  That we insist on playing even the majority of our five mans without TF, Sivir, Fiddle or Twitch is a bit silly.  Not that we need all four or people shouldn't play who they want just leaving out all of the best game changing champs every game isn't a great recipe for success.

I think my elo is where its at currently because of the week or two before the Twitch fotm started when Bhodi was playing a mean Sivir and we beat every team at the old elo easily which we couldn't have without Sivir's insane pushing power + ult + stupid easy to get spiral blade.  To me that is the annoying thing about the current system.  After my elo went back up to where it should be (around where it was in beta I'd guess) its not like I started losing horribly.  I think I've played 5 games total in the last month where we stood zero chance from start to finish.

Blitz can't grab good players, he just forces a team to stack veils and there are tons of hard counters to him esp with the new flash on a short cooldown.  His base attack damage and attack speed are awful and his tank stats were nerfed as well long before they took away the silence on his ult (typical Riot balancing, nerf everything but the real problem first often resulting in overnerfs when all changes are added up).

I think Schild can attest that against better players Teemo is just too easy to gib and at high levels where wards, clairvoyance and less opportunities to gank people wandering around like idiots his map control isn't anywhere near as big of a deal.

I just posted it them as food for thought, if I see more top players post lists (people are waiting for Dan to post one for example) I'll add them to the OP.  Also it was fitting after Schild and I played a 5-man game against a Kayle + Fiddle team where the players on their team were not very good at all but we barely barely barely won at all except for ace'ing them at Baron then pushing straight to Nexus only dropping one inhib after they had us down 2 inhibs.

I'm assuming from the first list he considers Twisted Fate, Fiddlesticks, Sivir, Alistar, Corki to be the "best" team.  why so serious?

I doubt it, remember most of them play draft so those are just considered the strong picks/bans that need to be accounted for.  I think you knew that though?  Crowstorm + Destiny is bullshit though.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 04:01:55 PM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
bhodi
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Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 04:15:12 PM

Eh, I'm just taking a break from this game. I'm tired of the champion select screen be some sort of quiz that changes week to week, where if you pick the wrong hero you automatically lose.

Also, the "top tier" lists aren't really useful or relevant for 95% of the playerbase. I am also surprised ashe is listed as higher than teemo on both of those. It probably has to do with how the high game simply means staying in your jungle and doing 5v5 after level 6.

Once they revamp and rebalance and the new matchmaking system comes out, I'll give it another go. Or maybe when they add another game mode. Or map. I'm tired of doing "-apem".
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 04:19:11 PM by bhodi »
Teleku
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Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 04:21:06 PM

I don't know, I watched a Fiddlesticks player literally destroy our entire 5 man team all by himself.  I think it could have just been him vs. all 5 of us and he'd still have won.  Some characters are just godly if you learn to use them.

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Hoax
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Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 04:30:05 PM

Stopping Fiddle is second in difficulty only to stopping CM imo, Sivir and Twitch are up there as well.  That isn't a coincidence, champs that force the other team to make difficult choices are going to make them make bad choices some of the time.  With Fiddle getting the most out of dark wind determines how big your advantage is going into the fight.  You can win a team fight without Crowstorm if you hit a dark wind that silences their entire team + 2 fears on the right people.  Against fiddle you have to take veils because veil not only blocks dark wind but stops the bounce, which means now they need to drop veil (often with crow storm or some other aoe) before using the silence.  So now you've regained some of the initiative.

TF's gate alone makes accounting for him stupid hard to do.  Destiny + insane damage w/ AP at long ranges + stun is just icing on the cake.

I think Twitch is the third hardest to account for thanks to the range + stupid stealth mechanics but I'd believe it if people told me better players handle him easier then my teams do.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Thrawn
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Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 04:42:35 PM

I'm assuming from the first list he considers Twisted Fate, Fiddlesticks, Sivir, Alistar, Corki to be the "best" team.  why so serious?

I doubt it, remember most of them play draft so those are just considered the strong picks/bans that need to be accounted for.  I think you knew that though?  Crowstorm + Destiny is bullshit though.

While I wasn't real serious about that comment as "thats the team we should run", I wasn't really aware that they were doing ban/drafts in tournaments and stuff.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
schild
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Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 05:39:31 PM

Eh, I'm just taking a break from this game. I'm tired of the champion select screen be some sort of quiz that changes week to week, where if you pick the wrong hero you automatically lose.

Also, the "top tier" lists aren't really useful or relevant for 95% of the playerbase. I am also surprised ashe is listed as higher than teemo on both of those. It probably has to do with how the high game simply means staying in your jungle and doing 5v5 after level 6.

Once they revamp and rebalance and the new matchmaking system comes out, I'll give it another go. Or maybe when they add another game mode. Or map. I'm tired of doing "-apem".
Ashe vs Teemo depends on the fight. Ashe is probably - IF HER ULT IS UP - more useful than a Teemo in a 5v5. No Ashe could ever take a Teemo in a 1v1 with evenly matched players.
Kail
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Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 06:49:45 PM

Pardon my noob ass, but what's Corki doing at the top there?  I can't get him to not suck, and (in the scrub rankings I'm in) I've never seen anyone else do anything with him, either.  He's got some decent AoE for farming, but has no real utility (except for revealing stealthers, maybe), crappy DPS, and is rather fragile... what do people use him for?
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Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 07:24:06 PM

Crappy DPS?

Heh.
Hoax
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Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 08:36:35 PM

Corki has some of the highest dps in the game, doubly so in a world where teams don't line up with no disables to let Yi highlander through them or Trynd kill them one by one while he's unkillable.

Phosphorous Bomb is amazing, even post nerfs.  It blinds, blind is fantastic, it aoe blinds, that is even more amazing against some teams.  He has an escape and can do good damage from long range.  Ergo he's one of the best physical damage dealers in the game at high levels and has been since his release.  They have nerfed him, again, recently but I think he's still considered insanely good.  His farming is part of why he's so good as bomb and valk both wipe out entire creep waves or spawns with ease  giving him huge gold advantage which translates to more damage.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
schild
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Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 11:05:04 AM

I know ME2 is coming out tonight but is anyone up for a few practice games around 8pm EST for me to hone my CM?
Prospero
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Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 11:16:59 AM

Too early for me, but I can do 8 PST.
Hoax
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Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 11:45:22 AM

I should get home around that time and I'm in for a couple.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Thrawn
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Reply #19 on: January 26, 2010, 11:51:51 AM

I'll be on tonight as long as I can get a few things done at home by then.

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Kageh
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Reply #20 on: January 26, 2010, 01:47:22 PM

TF sure is quite a pain to micro-manage for Pick A Card. Even Destiny isn't that big a deal on scrub level (where I'm at currently), because the enemy movement is pretty easy to predict (80% hang out at turrents until the creeps move or the go with the gank flow). At least he scales extremely with AP gained.

The other listed top-tier chars (mainly Sivir, Alistair, Twitch, Fiddle) seem a lot more accessible and straightforward, from my limited experience with them.

Too bad you guys are on the US LoL servers. Is anyone here playing on the GOA servers?
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Reply #21 on: January 26, 2010, 02:58:10 PM

Only twitch and TF are superpowered at the pug level. Fiddle sticks is a team player, pugs don't fight as a team, you lose. So is Alistar. Sivir isn't superhuman at pug level but defiantly a pug stomper.
Prospero
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Reply #22 on: January 26, 2010, 03:07:16 PM

A good Fiddle just needs them to make a ruckus and he can do the rest. The silence/fear/crowstorm combo is fucking brutal.
Thrawn
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Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 04:19:47 PM

If you'd rather learn someone else Schild I'm already very comfortable playing TF, I just need more practice with him in pre-mades.

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Xeyi
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Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 04:32:13 PM

Too bad you guys are on the US LoL servers. Is anyone here playing on the GOA servers?

I started on the GOA servers but switched to the US shortly after beta, mostly because the friends system was completely non-operative for a few weeks and we got tired of solo queuing all the time.

If you haven't spent money on the EU version I'd recommend at least checking out the US one.  I haven't found ping to be much of an issue at all and queues are still fast, even at weird hours.

In unrelated news, I just got a quadra kill while playing as ... Kayle.  I don't see that happening again any time soon  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Kageh
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Reply #25 on: January 26, 2010, 06:02:53 PM

I actually even started on US servers for beta and went on to play there after launch, until I decided to buy the digital edition from D2D.co.uk. Turns out I need to play on the EU servers, so I made a new guy there. Then I bought the additional champion pack too (I figure I might as well give those guys 10 more for making such a fun game) so now I'm kind of stuck there  huh
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 01:27:17 AM by Kageh »
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Reply #26 on: January 27, 2010, 04:20:10 PM

If you'd rather learn someone else Schild I'm already very comfortable playing TF, I just need more practice with him in pre-mades.
Hell naw, love him.
Thrawn
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Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 04:23:36 PM

If you'd rather learn someone else Schild I'm already very comfortable playing TF, I just need more practice with him in pre-mades.
Hell naw, love him.

Hard not to, just warp wherever you want on the map, stun anyone at range, reveal everyone on the map whenever you feel like it.  ACK!

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Kageh
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Reply #28 on: January 28, 2010, 03:40:34 PM

But so squishy. Most of the stuff that can stun/surprise attack you is really a huge danger. I can win or control most fights where I can enter the fight with gold card picked, but when they get the jump on me, it's over really fast.

Der Helm
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Reply #29 on: January 29, 2010, 04:31:02 AM

fights where I can enter the fight with gold card picked
How does that work, anyway, I suppose it is not blind luck, is it ? I could not figure out how this card drawing is supposed to work.

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Prospero
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Reply #30 on: January 29, 2010, 11:02:16 AM

Hit the button again when you see the red card and you will draw a gold card.
Thrawn
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Reply #31 on: January 29, 2010, 11:09:23 AM

Once you get good with TF it's very easy to grab a gold card the majority of the time even in the middle of a fight.  It's pretty OP as it currently stands with how fast the cooldown is and the fact that it's a damaging ranged stun on demand.  Unless they fixed it recently Gold card even stuns towers from attacking.

The think the rotation is Blue Card ~ 2 seconds > Red Card ~ 1.5seconds > Yellow Card ~ .5 seconds

It will start randomly one of those three when you activate the ability and when you hit the ability a second time it locks in whatever card it's on.  That card stays locked in until your next normal attack (you then throw the locked card) or until the spell wears off.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 11:11:04 AM by Thrawn »

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Kageh
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Reply #32 on: January 29, 2010, 12:00:00 PM

Like Thrawn said pretty much. The main problem is that when you're running away or desperately trying to get away from stuns/snares/being pelted with stuff it's pretty hard to concentrate on picking the right interval for locking gold *and* turning back to stun them.

It does work on stunning towers, too, although the stun is too short to be worthwhile IMO. Blue card spam is a lot better for towers (locking blue allows you for another "Pick a card" draw, you can keep picking blues for up to 15 seconds).

Also, the card cycling/picking is visible to opponents, so good opponents will just kite you until the gold card lock wears off.

schild
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Reply #33 on: January 29, 2010, 12:13:25 PM

I feel like any tryhard team (which I'm now a proud member of) should always be running Twitch and CM. Annie is always nice if they're a good Annie, but I think I'd prefer Fiddle in the long run of a game. Not sure.

A Sivir is always good. I might go back to playing Nidalee though, I miss the damage output despite Twitch being a murdering machine.
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Reply #34 on: January 29, 2010, 05:59:34 PM

LoL is in trouble with how the hero balance is homogenizing high-elo play. eh oh!
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