Wish is cancelled

[Nebu]

It's a pity it's gone. Most of my friends are, to say politely, very angry that it happened. Incidentally for the person who said smaller server and instance this and that. I've play EQ2, there is nothing more annoying that your friends being in queynos 7 and your in queynos 1.

I'm the one that mentioned this above.

1. The EQ2 example is an implementation issue.  CoH does instances very well.  

2. A single server would be a daily battle for the overworked, understaffed CSR team.  Unless your company is willing to shell out the resources for sufficient CSR support, this is a logistics nightmare waiting to happen.  

3. People seem to want instancing.  Look at the subscription numbers for WoW, EQ2, CoH.  Also look at the latest expansion by Mythic.  Instancing seems to be the current business model.  If I were an investor, I'd consider the single server model to be a very risky move.

[MrHat]

I played it, got bored, and moved on.  It didn't grip me like a good game should.

But apparently it gripped 5 people.  Maybe that's why they cancelled.

Now, can we please remove the HRose stink?

[Xilren's Twin]

Look, if GM led custom events were the only major differentiaion between Wish and the host of other mmorpg's out there, if the live events were the only reason you considered thie title fun,  then it's better off to die early before they started charging people money.  There is no way they could have possible have enough live staff to keep even a modestly successful number of players entertained for any appreciable length of time.  For futher review go see EQ1's luxury server...

Why do you think dev's are trying so hard to come of with ways for players to be each others content, b/c you will never be able to generate enough new content to outpace even a small population's consumption of it.  AKA What works in a small closed beta doesn't always translate to mass numbers of people.  Scale matters.

Xilren

[WayAbvPar]

Considering that this announcement probably also means a good dozen or so people are now unemployed

It looks like about half of them came here and registered accounts to talk about Wish...it is good to stay busy.

In all seriousness, having a project jerked out from underneath you has to suck. The upside is they now have the chance to hook up with something that  might hit the market someday.

[Roac]

The problem: In the US, people appear to want multiple servers and instancing in their mmog.

No, it's not the customers that want this, it's the developers.  Being able to instance your world means that you have to build a LOT less content.  If you had one server instead of ten, you have to build 10x as much content in order to avoid congestion.  Know how most games have a central "open market" area, or "The Spawn Drop", etc?  They'd be choked full of people.

[Rasix]

I'm a customer, I want it.  You are allowed to agree with people, Roac.  It's OK.

[Roac]

I'm a customer, I want it.  You are allowed to agree with people, Roac.  It's OK.

That's nice that you want it.  Individuals don't make the rule.  

For one thing, there are a lot of downsides to instancing and having multiple worlds; it makes it harder to play with your friends.  Instancing can make it easier to keep people who are not your friends out (which is often good), but it's not the only way and could be handled without that feature (though maybe not as easily).  

The other thing is that I don't think anyone really cares about instancing all that much.  I suspect based on the arguments for/against it that I've read, that people are championing/hating instancing based on the symptoms that it addresses, not because "WE HAVE INSTANCING!" is a marketing bullet that attracts people.

[Zhiroc]

Yeah, my first post too.... So sue me :)

I'm neither going to applaud nor denigrate Wish here.

I just wanted to say that what I am still looking for in a game is one that can even begin to translate paper-and-pencil RPing into the online world. And in my style of RPing, it's not being an action game, nor a strategy game (at least primarily). It's being a part of an interactive and dynamic story, with a strong emphasis on "realistic" gameplay (well, in the sense that Sci-Fi and Fantasy can be "realistic").

Would Wish have filled that? Who knows? I was somewhat encouraged by the Live Content that I experienced.


The way it was cancelled just screams that someone pulled the funding plug. It's hard to see how it could have been directly related to things like PnC, or even Beta 2, given that it only had 10 days to run. About the only thing that made sense is that something trashed their business model, like their game engine being totally unable to scale past a few thousand. Given that there was already planned to be a beta 2.5 and 3, if not 4, seems to say that they had planned for a lot of further development, and had the funding in place for a few more months at least until this happened.

They crowed about the number of b2 applications, about 68k, so interest at this mid-beta phase seemed reasonable.

By the way, with respect to UMMOGs, Eve Online has had a max of 12k players online in a single universe, though it is statically zoned. They commonly run between 8-10k.

[stray]

EDIT: I'll be nice.

[Soukyan]

Yeah, my first post too.... So sue me :)

I'm neither going to applaud nor denigrate Wish here.

I just wanted to say that what I am still looking for in a game is one that can even begin to translate paper-and-pencil RPing into the online world. And in my style of RPing, it's not being an action game, nor a strategy game (at least primarily). It's being a part of an interactive and dynamic story, with a strong emphasis on "realistic" gameplay (well, in the sense that Sci-Fi and Fantasy can be "realistic").

Would Wish have filled that? Who knows? I was somewhat encouraged by the Live Content that I experienced.


The way it was cancelled just screams that someone pulled the funding plug. It's hard to see how it could have been directly related to things like PnC, or even Beta 2, given that it only had 10 days to run. About the only thing that made sense is that something trashed their business model, like their game engine being totally unable to scale past a few thousand. Given that there was already planned to be a beta 2.5 and 3, if not 4, seems to say that they had planned for a lot of further development, and had the funding in place for a few more months at least until this happened.

They crowed about the number of b2 applications, about 68k, so interest at this mid-beta phase seemed reasonable.

By the way, with respect to UMMOGs, Eve Online has had a max of 12k players online in a single universe, though it is statically zoned. They commonly run between 8-10k.

Check out NWN and NWN persistent servers that some folks have set up. They're the closest to PnP RPGs thus far and they are online. No, they aren't massive, but you didn't list that as a qualifier.

[sidereal]

you shouldnt make too big words

Sage advice.

this was a GREAT game, AWESOME even, this spanked EQ2, L2 and all the those games right on the butt !

Is it possible to be a fanboi for a canceled game?


Again,
1. Work on Persistent Whack-a-Mole until the underlying technology is a commodity.
2. Once you have a well-understood client-server and virtual item management infrastructure, work on fun and exciting new social and economic systems.
3. Profit.

WoW, probably destined to be the flagship MMO, has a large development staff and a crapload of funding, and they can still barely get the item management code working.  How's a small development house going to outdo them on the low-level code and implement visionary economic and social systems in a reliable way?  People in this industry are still biting off way more than they can chew.

[Signe]

Don't worry, Fanbois!  You are not alone.  There is now a place for Wish refugees.  You can even help by contributing your hard earned money in the hopes that there will be enough to buy it and set it up for free!  Maybe it'll do as well as that other free game, Rubies of Eventide.  

Sign up today!!

[Mi_Tes]

Don't worry, Fanbois!  You are not alone.  There is now a place for Wish refugees.  You can even help by contributing your hard earned money in the hopes that there will be enough to buy it and set it up for free!  Maybe it'll do as well as that other free game, Rubies of Eventide.  

Sign up today!!

Now that is the funniest/most pathetic thing I have read all day.

[WayAbvPar]

Don't worry, Fanbois!  You are not alone.  There is now a place for Wish refugees.  You can even help by contributing your hard earned money in the hopes that there will be enough to buy it and set it up for free!  Maybe it'll do as well as that other free game, Rubies of Eventide.  

Sign up today!!

Sitting on this barstool talking like a damn fool
Got the twelve o'clock news blues
And I've given up hope on the afternoon soaps
And a bottle of cold brew
Is it any wonder I'm not crazy? Is it any wonder I'm sane at all
Well I'm so tired of losing- I got nothing to do and all day to do it
I go out cruisin' but I've no place to go and all night to get there
Is it any wonder I'm not a criminal?
Is it any wonder I'm not in jail?
Is it any wonder I've got

Too much time on my hands, it's ticking away with my sanity
I've got too much time on my hands, it's hard to believe such a calamity
I've got too much time on my hands and it's ticking away from me
Too much time on my hands, too much time on my hands
Too much time on my hands

Well, I'm a jet fuel genius - I can solve the world's problems
Without even trying
I have dozens of friends and the fun never ends
That is, as long as I'm buying
Is it any wonder I'm not the president
(He's not the president)
Is it any wonder I'm null and void?
Is it any wonder I've got

Too much time on my hands, it's ticking away at my sanity
I've got too much time on my hands, it's hard to believe such a calamity
I've got too much time on my hands and it's ticking away from me
Too much time on my hands, too much time on my hands
Too much time on my hands

Jesus those people need a life. Like STAT.

[Signe]

Oh, sure... take my kind post to the sad, lonely, beta-less fanbois and use it to mock them.  You force me to join you because I am weak.

We have 16 new people on f13 today, alone.  I followed the link the last one to register provided in his profile and it took me  to a worrying place.  

http://www.goldshire.com/

We can sing along!

[Nebu]

Styx quotes and now WoW Christmas carols.  

I can see that things are about to get ugly.

[Signe]

Now 17 new users just today.  Does this make anyone nervous?  Could they all be HRose?

[schild]

Stop complaining. I'm mailing you a carton of cigarettes.

[Paelos]

Meh, Haemish will probably eat at least five of them before dinner.

[Nebu]

Now 17 new users just today.  Does this make anyone nervous?  Could they all be HRose?

Could be SB infiltrating the board with 17 new handles.  

Think about it.  He could divert the focus of any given thread to himself without using the same name.  It's like referring to yourself in the third person, only the third person name is entirely different.  

I think we need a thread just for conspiracy theories.

[schild]

No, we don't. This is getting ridiculous, haven't you all done anything interesting lately? Or is everyone waiting for RE4 tomorrow like I am? Suikoden IV comes out too. But it's ass.

[Stephen Zepp]

Some of us new members are actually new members! While I admit I wound up on this page through a couple of link chains that started with WISH being cancelled, I did not even know what Wish was, much less care (other than in a business sense) that it was cancelled...caught the slash-dot (yes you've been slash-dotted, that's probably where all of the new members are coming from) link to here, and started reading.

Since there is some valid market feedback for MMOG's here, I decided to hang out and register, and see how the community works out.

[stray]

Welcome :)

EDIT: I admit though, I have nothing more interesting to do atm, other than wait for Haemish to enter the thread. It's either that or work.

[Der Helm]

..., and see how the community works out.

God have mercy with your soul ...

[Stephen Zepp]

..., and see how the community works out.

God have mercy with your soul ...

Heh...been around the block when it comes to jaded/aggro communities on the net, so not too much to worry about on that score...as long as there is at least some valid signal to all the noise, I'll probably hang tight!

[Signe]

I knew it was Shockeye's fault.  It just smacks of useless news.

[Yegolev]

Now 17 new users just today.  Does this make anyone nervous?  Could they all be HRose?

you have at least one legitimate new registrant, someone who has played several MOGs and tends to say "meh" to them as a result.  i downloaded the Wish beta because someone sent me an email.  i played for ten minutes, mostly character creation, before finding that i was unable to gather wood for a floating female Silver Surfer.  about that time i realized that the Steam-like interface and ass-flavored graphics were going to cause premature baldness, so i removed it and apologized to my rig.

today i followed the /. link.

[schild]

This is getting ridiculous, haven't you all done anything interesting lately?

If "interesting" is looking up the definition of fluffer, then no... nothing interesting.  

Give me a good game recommendation.  I'm becoming disheartened to the point of giving up on games.  Until then, I'll continue to lurk while skillfully evading my responsibilities.

PS2 - Ghost Hunter
GC - Eternal Darkness
Xbox - Fatal Frame II: Director's Cut
PC: Riddick, Ut2k4, AvP2, Painkiller

[HaemishM]

When I played Wish last E3 it seemed nondescript.   You guys who were in the beta:  was there anything obviously wrong with it that suggested this cancellation?   Did it have anything especially interesting or fun?

For the half hour I managed to get into the beta this past week, it was wholly bland and uninteresting. Point and click movement just isn't fun, and probably should have been ripped out long ago. Combat was less interesting now than it was when I was first in alpha over a year ago. The interesting bit was that skill gain was use-based, and there were no classes. But the gameplay and world had devolved since I played the first alpha. I don't think I've ever seen a game so backwards in development.

The days of trying to squeeze a billion folks into the same server should be over. Throwing more people at rancid gameplay won't help it, it'll just make server achitecture more expensive.

EDIT: And to add more fuel to the fire, live content is hardly a selling point. No MMOG in history has ever provided enough live content to keep a player base happy. A small indy dev house from Alabama SURE isn't going to be able to do it. Live content in beta is easier to do than in the real thing. I imagine the investor saw all the server downages, as well as the amount of people it would take to pull live content off and shit a brick.

I do feel bad for the people who lost their jobs. I've been there and it sucks ass. But the game was not ready for prime time and showed no signs it would be in the future.

[Yegolev]

The days of trying to squeeze a billion folks into the same server should be over.

i agree and i don't know where this idea got started. does anyone ever interact with more than a handful of people at once?  i don't need thousands of other people surrounding me all at once, i need a fleshed-out game world and my crew.  i don't want to run into the same jackasses every session either, but that is accomplished with just a few thousand.  there is also something to be said for running into an old friend in a new area.

[RipSnort]

I'm confused,, I work at home and clicked on the wish client at various times of day and night. The majority of the times the client was down or when i did manage to log on (2:00 a.m. in the morning) it wasn't long before it went down again. How the heck did anyone mange to participate in live events? I wonder if my opinion would have changed if I had participated in one.

I liked the concept of One big world and all players interacting togethor in it.
  Instancing is a great asset, I still think AO has just the right amount of it, but  when I think MMORPG I think large communties and vast landscapes. Subconciously there's still that desire to enjoy a game so much I return that catass state I lived in the early days of UO. In other words if the content is fresh and intriguing I'lm willing to put in the hours to develop an avatar.
Segregating the population into small niches seems counterproductive or cheap way out of satisfying the Massive Multiplayer concept.

With all the damn vaporware cropping up in the last year or two I bet someone could combine the best components of all of them  into one decent game, heh.


Best of luck to all those involved in wish. I hope they all find work on new projects. Wiser for their experiences.

[Soukyan]

DAMNIT people! Sentences are started with a capital letter and end in a period. Haemish, where's the cartoon. We're in dire need here.

[Rasix]

Allow me:



See also:

[schild]

We gotta stop using that.

[Soukyan]

Ack! Didn't realize those were being linked from their site. I thought Haemish was storing it on his own webspace or summat.