Paying for updates for EQII ---- and some numbers

[Flashman]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.html

Article says 310,000 paying subscribers.

Article also says:

"With a forthcoming update that comes in a new form known as an "adventure pack,"... The first part of the adventure pack will come as a free download. All of the game's subscribers will be able to sink their swords into a new zone, fight new enemies, and so on. There will also be some new quests in this area for all players... If players want to continue down this story path, they will have to pay what's been described as a "small fee" to download the rest of the adventure pack's content and continue on..."

So, now you pay extra for the guild tools, extra character slots, and now you have pay-as-you-go content.

I wonder if this will catch on.

[Aenovae]

As an EQ2 player, pay-as-you-go content sounds interesting, and not displeasing.  It's like paying a mini fee for a mini expansion.

There might be problems with it in the long run, though.  Paying an extra $5 here and there for content additions is easy.  But when new players join the game a year from now, will they want to pay a large lump sum to unlock all the packs that were released before they joined?  If the barrier to entry is too high, the game will be segregated into haves and have-nots (in terms of $$$).

It could also spell doom if SOE heads too far down the "pay for this cookie" road.  Then we will have players paying a few cents for each quest they want to do.  Want that new spell?  You have to pay $1 to unlock the quest for it first.  Want a better helmet?  Only $0.50!  Want an extra inventory slot?  $10!  Access to the new zone where all the other players are in?  $10.  Want to gain that next level instantly?  Only $10 per level!  How about a new set of recipes to craft?  Just $1 per scroll!

Ugh.

The minute a game charges for shit like that is the minute I quit.

Expansions are ok, since it's generally expected for all players to have all the expansions.  But when the service allows players to pay extra for in-game bonuses, it changes from the acceptable "Pay for admission" to the unacceptable "Pay for advantage."

P.S.  Fuck Iron Realms Entertainment.

[Alkiera]

Expansions are ok, since it's generally expected for all players to have all the expansions.  But when the service allows players to pay extra for in-game bonuses, it changes from the acceptable "Pay for admission" to the unacceptable "Pay for advantage."

P.S.  Fuck Iron Realms Entertainment.

IMO, the game should be either one way or ther other.  You're either paying an admission fee, like most MMOGs, or paying for bonuses, like Project Entropia, MtGO, or all of IRE's MMUDs.  And the latter, really, is convertable to the former.  Each month you're playing the game, dump $10-15 into the in-game currency or what have you.  If you're not playing, you can feel free to not pay.  No need to cancel the game, change subscription status, or anything.

I agree that both, on the other hand, is ridiculous.  One or other is fine... but not a monthly fee and additional bits every time I turn around.

Alkiera

[UD_Delt]

It sounds interesting to me. The details I read stated that they are planning two major expansions per year probably at the $29.99 price range. They also claim to have two independant teams working on each expansion so every expansion should have one year of development time. Probably true right now but dev teams are always shifted around and I doubt they maintain that independance.

The adventure packs are going to come 4x a year at for $4.99. From my understanding they are basically going to be a series of dungeons that have some independant story line within each one. You get the first tier of the dungeon for free to sample the story. If you want to continue you have to pay the $4.99.

I'll have to see exactly how it plays out to decide if it's a "good thing" or not.

[Alkiera]

They seemed to indicate that the storylines were ones they wouldn't be able to do otherwise, due to not being of very broad interest.  A dungeon devoted to some famous Troll, or some lore for another race, or an archetype-heavy area.

This way they can release a dungeon for one side or the other without having to develop for both sides at the same time...  And not worry as much about making sure content balances.  You don't have to pay for dungeons on the freeport side if you only play Qeynosians, and vice-versa.

Really, it makes some sense.

Alkiera

[AlteredOne]

Some questions that occur to me::
- Boxed expansions tend to offer other features, such as graphics upgrades, new races, new classes, new game mechanics, and thematic unity for the new content. Will I get these with the mini "Adventure Packs", or will I have to pay for a boxed expansion every 6 months, on TOP of those packs?
- With adventure packs being released willy-nilly, it is much more likely that they will not be tied together very well, leading to a FOTM effect with everybody flocking to the latest add-on zones, effectively forcing most of the population into a narrow progression path.   By comparison, a boxed expansion often gives a variety of areas to explore, united by some theme.

So is this just a clever way for SoE to milk more cash on top of their existing expansion model, or is it a viable alternative to the once-or-twice-a-year boxed expansion paradigm?

[Alkiera]

Some questions that occur to me::
- Boxed expansions tend to offer other features, such as graphics upgrades, new races, new classes, new game mechanics, and thematic unity for the new content. Will I get these with the mini "Adventure Packs", or will I have to pay for a boxed expansion every 6 months, on TOP of those packs?

The Adventure Packs are just the last 60-80% of a new dungeon or explorable area.  The first part will be available for free to everyone.  They are not expansions, expansions are something seperate, and will have additional features, as well as unified new content.

The first one is due to be released sometime in the second half of 2005, thus giving us more time to develop and add cool new things. In fact, you're also in for a pretty big surprise when you see our first expansion pack for EQ II sometime later this year. We aren't just focusing on the typical new content you've seen in past expansions to MMOs (our own included.) We're also focused on radically new gameplay elements that have never been seen before in online games.

 There will also be added content, new zones/spells/etc provided for free, aside from expansions and Adv. Packs.

- With adventure packs being released willy-nilly, it is much more likely that they will not be tied together very well, leading to a FOTM effect with everybody flocking to the latest add-on zones, effectively forcing most of the population into a narrow progression path.   By comparison, a boxed expansion often gives a variety of areas to explore, united by some theme.

Yes.  That's why they are selling them individually, rather than bundling them with expansions.  Unlike expansions, which generally everyone must have, Adv. Packs are designed to appeal to only part of the playerbase, not everyone.

So is this just a clever way for SoE to milk more cash on top of their existing expansion model, or is it a viable alternative to the once-or-twice-a-year boxed expansion paradigm?

It's not an alternative, it's in addition to normal twice-yearly expansions.

Alkiera

[AlteredOne]

Thanks for the answers.  While I personally do not like the business model that SoE is using for EQ2, hopefully it will make their players happy.  I just see a lot of fees, adding up to a hobby that is far more expensive than comparable MMO games.  I suppose Sony would counter that their game provides a better service than other titles, hence they deserve to charge more for premium content and features.  Having played EQ2 for one month, I do not see where the game is such a leap forward that it deserves a new pricing model, but then again I may not be a representative player.

[Toast]

The hobby is still incredibly cheap when viewed as cost per hour of participation.

By the way, I feel confident that the 310k number is referring to cumulative subscriptions created to date.

[Flashman]

Having played EQ2 for one month, I do not see where the game is such a leap forward that it deserves a new pricing model, but then again I may not be a representative player.

I don't think you're off base at all. I played for my free month also. And I didn't see anything that showed me that EQII was a leap forward in any respect. I really didn't experience anything "new" MMO-wise. Although I did enjoy it for a month, the interest really petered out for me when I hit level 18.

[AlteredOne]

I don't think you're off base at all. I played for my free month also. And I didn't see anything that showed me that EQII was a leap forward in any respect. I really didn't experience anything "new" MMO-wise. Although I did enjoy it for a month, the interest really petered out for me when I hit level 18.

Thanks, good to know I'm not alone :)  But I think it's obvious that the F13 community is not very representative of MMO gamers as a whole.  310k EQ2 subscribers, yet the game is not especially popular here at F13.  Whether or not we like the label, we are intellectuals.  Sure, some of us can post rants that would make your mother's ears bleed, but I find some nugget of gamer wisdom in almost every thread.   Anyway, I'd like to see a poll sometime, or some way to get a real feel for what the whole F13 crowd is playing.

[Toast]

310k EQ2 subscribers, yet the game is not especially popular here at F13

310,000
minus me, you, my roommate and everyone else who has cancelled =
EQ2 subscribers

[Wukong]

I'm just a lurker, not part of any crowd, but I'm playing and thoroughly enjoying EQ2. I'm currently logged in actually, in afk merchant mode, and they just announced the opening of a new server. I'm sure the 310k number is as massaged as any press release statistic, but EQ2 is doing better than threads here would lead one to believe.

I'm starting to sound like one of those Wish fanbois, so I'll shut up now.

[Alkiera]

You're not the only one.  The group I play with is all RL friends, some of us, encluding myself, burned out on EQ1, and some are completely new to MMOGs.  All of us seem to be enjoying EQ2.

Alkiera

[Flashman]

Haha. Hey, nothing wrong with EQ2, just not my cup of tea. I really liked the beginning game.


But when you say things like you're logged into the game in AFK merchant mode it makes me shudder, I think that is a terrible idea. The fact you have to let your toon sit in your house to sell anything (Or buy another box - an even bigger travesty)  or leave your computer all night...well it sounds stupid just typing it, to be honest with you.

And the fact you couldn't rename your bags/boxes... heh.

[Alkiera]

But when you say things like you're logged into the game in AFK merchant mode it makes me shudder, I think that is a terrible idea. The fact you have to let your toon sit in your house to sell anything (Or buy another box - an even bigger travesty)  or leave your computer all night...well it sounds stupid just typing it, to be honest with you.

This issue is one of the biggest issues with the crafting/trading side of EQ and EQ2.  Apparently the new EQ1 expansion Schild posted about has some sort of alternative, maybe.  But it's probably The biggest issue in EQ2.

And the fact you couldn't rename your bags/boxes... heh.

Text muds sometimes let you do this...  Maybe SWG or UO do, too, I forget.  No other MMO does.

Alkiera

[Signe]

Couldn't you rename your stuff in Horizons?

[CmdrSlack]

You could in SWG.

It was how most people sold the good shit they made, giving the stats of the item in the name.  It also made it MUCH easier to manage inventory/house supplies as a result.

[Zane0]

AO added that feature recently, I believe!  

It took them years to do, of course.

[Flashman]

You could in SWG.

It was how most people sold the good shit they made, giving the stats of the item in the name.  It also made it MUCH easier to manage inventory/house supplies as a result.

Yeah as much as it pains me, I think SWG spoiled me on EQ2. I enjoyed a lot of the features in SWG, the player housing, cities, renaming items, the ability to gain and drop skills.

Of course, they forgot to add "fun" and "content" for the most part but I think SWG was a very flexible game in terms of classes + skills, inventory, crafting, selling, housing. Not to mention character customization. So, when I started EQ2 I really missed those concepts.

Of course on quests and stuff to do EQ2 > SWG.