f13.net forums - A quick lesson in office politics

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July 18, 2025, 01:03:37 PM

we're back, baby

Around my workplace, this is known as the "shit rolls downhill" theorem.

Quote from: Miguel

The first and foremost is that when your work load/job responsibility is changed, get it in fucking writing.

This is the gospel truth. I have an archive of over 15,000 emails, including sent and received. Our sales managers here have a nasty habit of reassigning accounts, or revamping territories without ever communicating that change to the sales rep....and then forgetting they requested the change in the first place.

Thus, when an irate rep or manager comes to me and asks "why did this account get reassigned without my knowledge", I can produce a dated email with the manager approval on it.

It has hit the point where I'm rarely questioned on that stuff, because managers and reps alike realize I am meticulous about saving any emails relevant to business. About the only ones I delete are jokes and "found: a Palm stylus, if you lost one, please claim at reception" type of inane messages.

I don't do verbal requests. Ever. If you want it done, you put it in an email. Hard-copy is limited to official company forms....I have 2 file drawers, both of which are less than 60% full. Managers that got used to submitting requests on restaurant napkins got a rude awakening when I put that policy in place.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

I ran into something similar myself before I became an Independent Consultant in my field (Healthcare IT).

When I got out of the military, I had a very dusty BS-SC, and no real commercial background, so I accepted a job as an "interface engineer" (read that as universal translator for data formats and protocols) at a pretty hefty pay cut.

In 9 months, I not only had maxxed out all the training the company provided, but I was actually teaching project management courses to the entire 200+ employee company--including travel to all corporate sites.

On top of this extra duty, I was juggling 5 separate projects continuously, with positive customer satisfaction surveys at the end of each projec, plus excellent 3 month and 6 month evaluation reports.

I found out that the company was billing my time in excess of $150 an hour, of which I received approximately $25-35 an hour including bonuses. I also found out that independents in my field, and even engineers in my exact same position at other companies were making 30-100% more than I was. Of course, I asked for a raise.

I was told basically, "you've only been here 9 months, and don't qualify for a raise until the 1.5 year point, sorry." Screw that--I'm teaching engineers with 15+ years experience above mine in the field how to actually design a fucking project, yet I can't get a raise. Obviously, I quickly found another job.

Now comes the kicker: At the time I got in this position, I was working 4 different client's, one of which included on site time (massive travel). Once I lined up the new job's start date, I kicked into crunch mode and jammed out 2+ months of work on these projects in less than 3 weeks. 1 week into this crunch mode, I let my manager know I was moving on, and outlined the reasons why. He immediately said "ahh, now I see why you wanted to finish that last training class! (which was complete even before I asked for the raise, much less found a new job).

I completely finished 3 of the 4 projects more than 6 months ahead of combined schedules, but the client on one of the projects wasn't ready for design yet, so it was stalled. I wound up handing the project over to my manager (along with all the other completed ones, as well as a record bonus for the team for the quarter based on billed hours that I didn't even qualify for because I was leaving), and proceeded with my exit interviews.

Two months later, I get a call from this guy pleading for help on the new project. As it turns out, he never bothered to add a new resource to it, and the client was demanding progress, and he had lost my design notes I had taken while working for him. I recreated from memory what had been decided as best I could, and helped bring a new resource on board for him. A month and a half later, he calls me again to help him bring yet another resource on board, since the one I trained on the project "didn't have time for it after all (can you say shitty resource management?). I went through the process again, and that's the last I heard.

A year later, I had elected to go fully independent, and was trying to land a massive project that would have netted me quite a good income. As part of the standard consultant due diligence, the customer called my two previous employers, and (as you've guessed by now), this particular manager completely slandered my entire work history at the company, and focused pointedly on the project he fucked up managing as being "my fault because I was greedy". To this day (healthcare IT is a pretty tight community), I get customer questions about "so what happened with you at XXXX?". Fortunately, I've built up enough of a reference base of elated customers that I can overcome the black mark, but damn dude, take some responsibility for your own fuckups and stop holding a grudge!

Quote from: Stephen Zepp

As part of the standard consultant due diligence, the customer called my two previous employers, and (as you've guessed by now), this particular manager completely slandered my entire work history at the company, and focused pointedly on the project he fucked up managing as being "my fault because I was greedy". To this day (healthcare IT is a pretty tight community), I get customer questions about "so what happened with you at XXXX?".

You, sir, may have grounds for a lawsuit, believe it or not. My very large corporate employer does not allow current employees to give references outside the company, because it opens us to legal liability if we slander an ex-employee. This is apparently common practice in corporate America, with most companies refusing to give negative references, period. The logic is, "If you have nothing good to say, just refuse to give a reference."

Admittedly I am no legal expert, but this is what I'm told by our H.R. geniuses.

In retrospect it might have worked, but at the time there was no way I could have afforded the legal work, and since I didn't document nearly enough, nor could I get anyone to actually admit what the guy said word by word, I wouldn't have a case anyway. I was quite pissed when it looked like I had the contract, and then they stopped calling me--so I checked up and found out that they "had an issue with one of my references". I would up checking with buddies still at the company and they confirmed that the manager hated me and blamed me for the project, so it's all really hearsay unfortunately.

Quote from: Stephen Zepp

Bear in mind that if a former employer refuses to give a reference, that can be seen as quite damning to a prospective employer. They don't even have to badmouth you in order to create "an issue" with one of your references.

Your buddies may know what the manager thinks or had said around the office, but that doesn't necessarily mean he gave a negative reference.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

Legally, the questioner can only ask if, when, and how long the potential employee worked. Beyond that, the referencer can volunteer any information they wish.

Not to mention the fact that if you put a job on your resume, or provide a contact, you are basically saying that you consent to that employer/reference saying whatever they damn well please about you.

So if you keep things in your email as a version of "keeping things in writing", I cannot recommend this highly enough:

http://desktop.google.com/

Just today, I needed a picture someone sent me 2 1/2 years ago. Google Desktop searched 5+ gigs of mail archives and found it in less than a second.

A thread like this just wouldn't be complete without mentioning George.

My personal least-favorite co-worker was the evil sales rep who'd see that the production schedule was full, and then backdate a production order for work to be scheduled for the next day, slip it into the middle of the stack of pending orders and claim it had been there for two weeks, and that my supervisor must have missed it when he'd done the scheduling...

Sure, it was bullshit, but my supervisor didn't care. He just re-assigned the work to me or the other producer anyway, so it's not like he was put out any. What did I do about it? Bitch under my breath, do the work, and bill for the overtime.

...

I work full-time, and my wife and I also run a business, so I get stuck with both the employer and employee side of things. In both cases, there's one general rule: the line in the employment agreement about "other duties as assigned."

Sure, it might not be part of the regular work I was hired to do. It might be someone else's usual work. I might not even be qualified for it. But my time at work is used at the company's discretion. If they decide they want or need me to do something, then it's up to me to do it (as long as it's not illegal or unsafe), even if I think it's a waste of company resources. Hopefully it won't be, but that depends on the quality of the management.

Quote from: Polysorbate80

In both cases, there's one general rule: the line in the employment agreement about "other duties as assigned."

This is fine, except when the other duties as assigned fall directly under another job specification that starts out at $3 an hour more than I make. But I don't complain about it, because I would get bored to tears sticking with my specified job duties all day, which mostly entails watching students play Math Blaster all day and reminding them not to add their name every time they play.

Just because you're doing something that falls into a different category, doesn't mean you necessarily automatically rate a higher salary.

However, it does mean your manager should take your efforts into account when it comes time for raises, promotions, or bonuses. If your management won't learn that lesson, then at least you're getting experience that might get you that better job at a company that has learned it...

I've done a lot of things over the years that weren't part of my official job, but it was beneficial to everyone that I learn to do them instead of waiting for (or paying for) the 'proper' person to take care of it. It's never once come back to haunt me.

(Edit for coherent spelling)

Quote from: Polysorbate80

Just because you're doing something that falls into a different category, doesn't mean you necessarily automatically rate a higher salary.

It does when my duties are almost exclusively categorized by a better paying position. I also scored 83/85 when I took the test, but they currently aren't hiring because of California's giant budget deficit.

Since I like the duties more than what my classification would be doing, I don't complain.

It's also a misnomer to believe that employees are paid what they're worth, because this isn't the private sector. School district employees automatically get a raise every year for the first five years, then their salary remains the same unless everybody gets a raise across the board. Both the worst and the best employee gets paid the same, and everybody in between.

You're in a little different boat then. I've seen it happen--my regular full-time job is for a state university; people leave and we're stuck with positions we can't officially hire for due to the hiring freeze, but someone has to do the work all the same. Then again, I've never accused any educational institution of having decent management, my current employer most definitely included...

No, I was thinking along the lines of someone who picks up a few extra or different duties, not someone who's basically been shuffled into a new role entirely.

For instance, just because I learn enough networking to deal with our office needs without involving the network admins (as we used to do) doesn't rate me their salary (at least $6k a year more than mine). It does mean I get a higher rating on my annual evaluation, though, as well as the goodwill of the already-overworked network folks.

I will admit that you, on the other hand, are getting the short end of the stick and should rightfully be re-classified if what you say is accurate.

(I'm not sure how you got that idea I said people are always paid what they're worth..?)