Thanksgiving

[Falconeer]

I am not from North America, as a few of you probably know, but someone I deeply care for is and she's staying with me in Roma for a while. Happens that she'll be here for thanksgiving too and she proposed to have turkey and all.

I'm all up for turkey, but then I started researching about what thanksgiving is, what is people giving thank for (and to whom), and what and when the celebration started. And I got depressed, so I'm not sure it's a good idea to celebrate it anymore. I'm really confused, I'm sure I shouldn't look too much into it in the XXI century, but I'm uncomfortable since I realized the Native Americans point of view.

Care to share your thoughts on it and help me have my first happy turkey?

[MisterNoisy]

Do like everyone else and don't think about it overmuch and just accept the excuse to hang out with friends/family and have a proper holiday feast.  :)

[Sky]

Don't look too deeply into any holidays, really. The whole 'christ wasn't born in december thing' is always fun for a family get-together.

But yeah, have some turkey and a good meal, enjoy time with friends and family, look over the past year and be thankful for all that you have and is good in your life.

And if you feel really bad about what happened to those indians dumb enough to make treaties with white people, consider the modern indians raking in millions of untaxed dollars from stupid white people in their casinos.

[schild]

No one actually sits around a fire a talks about how many polio blankets they traded or how well they performed at the world series of the most dangerous game. Its just a vacation excuse and one od those times when families get fat and drunk.

[Mrbloodworth]

I am not from North America, as a few of you probably know, but someone I deeply care for is and she's staying with me in Roma for a while. Happens that she'll be here for thanksgiving too and she proposed to have turkey and all.

I'm all up for turkey, but then I started researching about what thanksgiving is, what is people giving thank for (and to whom), and what and when the celebration started. And I got depressed, so I'm not sure it's a good idea to celebrate it anymore. I'm really confused, I'm sure I shouldn't look too much into it in the XXI century, but I'm uncomfortable since I realized the Native Americans point of view.

Care to share your thoughts on it and help me have my first happy turkey?

Its not about that. Its about your friend there, being there. In fact, invite more people you care about.

[Brogarn]

Thanksgiving isn't about it's history. It's about yours and the family, friends and people you love who touch your life every day. Spend a day with them in the warmth of a house filled with the smells of good food and the sounds of conversations. Celebrate your time together and be content. There's plenty of other days in the year to be cynical and worry about the world, where it's been, where it is and where it's going. It's ok to take one of them to just be happy.

[rattran]

Smallpox blankets came much later. Save them for Easter.

[Lantyssa]

Its not about that. Its about your friend there, being there. In fact, invite more people you care about.

This.

One year I had Thanksgiving Sonic with my mom and it was still great.  It's not about the meal, but enjoying the time with those you love.  Turkey and all the fixings are traditional for a lot of families though, so it reminds us of good times with the family.  Nostalgia and tryptophan.

So don't worry about it's historical relevance.  Think of it as a new tradition which celebrates your friendship.

[Yegolev]

Key Elements for a United States Thanksgiving:

1) Turkey.  At least one.
2) Pumpkin-based or sweet-potato-based food.
3) An assortment of other foods which are entirely carbohydrates.
4) Enough soft furniture for everyone to lay on.
5) Football.

Be sure to have at least twice as much food as would normally be consumed.  Eat until you are in physical pain, then sleep it off while trying to watch football.

[Bunk]

Despite the fact that you all celebrate it a month late, I agree that the whole point of it is family. I've celebrated American Thanksgiving with American friends, and really, noone puts any historical significance on it - it's a good excuse to get friends and family together, watch football, and eat too much. They leave the historical stuff for July 4th.

Heck, I certainly don't let my general disdain for Christianity and Organized religion stop me from celebrating Christmas with my family.

[Cyrrex]

Besides, this girl you care deeply about will be so impressed that you might score.  That is something to be very, very thankful for.

[Yegolev]

Right.  Don't forget that all the food makes people sleepy.

[WayAbvPar]

Key Elements for a United States Thanksgiving:

1) Turkey.  At least one.
2) Pumpkin-based or sweet-potato-based food.
3) An assortment of other foods which are entirely carbohydrates.
4) Enough soft furniture for everyone to lay on.
5) Football.

Be sure to have at least twice as much food as would normally be consumed.  Eat until you are in physical pain, then sleep it off while trying to watch football.

I don't see stuffing or dressing on your list. Just mentioning carbs in not nearly good enough. Philistine.

Thanksgiving is about 4 days off, hanging out with family and friends, and eating until you are fit to burst. When I was younger it was also about hitting the bar after dinner and drinking Wild Turkey (always very cheap on special) until I was nearly blind.

[Yegolev]

I don't see stuffing or dressing on your list. Just mentioning carbs in not nearly good enough. Philistine.

I was not sure if I wanted to explain what that was... no idea what he knows, but good call there.  Plus my experience is all Old South variant and I have to translate for you carpetbaggers anyway.

[Quinton]

Key Elements for a United States Thanksgiving:

1) Turkey.  At least one.
2) Pumpkin-based or sweet-potato-based food.
3) An assortment of other foods which are entirely carbohydrates.
4) Enough soft furniture for everyone to lay on.
5) Football.

Be sure to have at least twice as much food as would normally be consumed.  Eat until you are in physical pain, then sleep it off while trying to watch football.

As others have noted, stuffing and gravy are important to go with the turkey.

You may substitute sitting around and talking, watching a movie, or playing a board game if you are not a fan of football.

If you do the "dinner" early in the day, a turkey sandwich makes a fine snack, along with another slice of pie, should you be capable of eating again later the same day.

[Yegolev]

If you don't watch football on Thanksgiving, you might as well skip the gravy and move to California with the other weirdos.

[Falconeer]

Besides, this girl you care deeply about will be so impressed that you might score.  That is something to be very, very thankful for.

Haha. Well you know, she came all the way down to Roma just for me, so scoring stopped being an issue a while ago  

That said, I don't know guys. I am sure you all got I am really confused, not trying any kind of subtle flame here. And yes, you are all being reassuring and I am kinda convinced.
What disturbed me is that I tried thinking of something similar in Italy and while, obviously, I can't find anything like that, I wonder if I could let a certain unhappy event happened in the past to become a happy friends-and-family occasion. I am not pointing fingers at the USA, it's a known fact that I hate my land more than any other place. We had Mussolini and we now have Berlusconi, no one is as stupid as the people here, and our history is dirtier and bloodier than yours. So I wonder, if for some crazy reason the day of the march on Rome were a traditional national holiday around here, no matter how spoiled of its origins, no matter how forgotten they could be, I couldn't celebrate it.

I realize it's a terribly inadequate parallelism, terribly. I just used it to point out the problem I have with the origins of celebrations, they are hard to forget: in this case from what I read, and I'm humbly open to being ridiculed for reading the wrong stuff (or the stuff wrong), but in the face of history, didn't thanksgiving ended up being a celebration of the colonisation (and what it produced)? The fact that no one thinks about it doesn't really change its meaning, does it?

I guess it's my usual problem, I empathise too much. But what would I say if my friend was an American Indian? "Forget about it, it's the past. No one really cares about it anymore"?





FAKE EDIT: Among the many things I read, this one really, and especially the quoted sentence, makes my soon-to-be-eaten turkey kinda bitter.

Myth #11: Thanksgiving is a happy time.

Fact: For many Indian people, “Thanksgiving” is a time of mourning, of remembering how a gift of generosity was rewarded by theft of land and seed corn, extermination of many from disease and gun, and near total destruction of many more from forced assimilation. As currently celebrated in this country, “Thanksgiving” is a bitter reminder of 500 years of betrayal returned for friendship.

Once again, forgive me for stepping into traditions that don't belong to me. I just wanted to share my confusion.

[Quinton]

It's important to keep in mind that very little we do here makes any goddamn sense at all.

[Yegolev]

Well, if your government performs genocide then you have to expect a certain amount of propaganda to come with it.  I mean, read up on the current state of Indian Affairs.  Comparatively speaking, I think most people would rather be any other ethnic group in this country.  So, yea, bad stuff for five hundred years and counting, but I can't do a god-damned thing about it, can I?

[WayAbvPar]

As a Left Coaster, most of the football is done before we end up eating, so it isn't as traditional for us. We have it on in the background, of course- we are at least partially civilized. Thankfully the NFL came to the rescue and spoiled the Thanksgivings of hundreds of its employees by adding yet another game to the schedule.

Also- The Cowboys and Lions should play each other and let the rest of the league have a shot at hosting a Turkey Day game.

[Rasix]

Another car trip with the infant.    So looking forward to an hour and a half of unhappy, crying baby.

At least we're not cooking.

[Cyrrex]

Also- The Cowboys and Lions should play each other and let the rest of the league have a shot at hosting a Turkey Day game.

I don't like the Cowboys nearly enough to give them one free win every year.

So, yea, bad stuff for five hundred years and counting, but I can't do a god-damned thing about it, can I?

That's the spirit!

[Signe]

I wouldn't even bother with the turkey if the local grocery store didn't give us a free one every year.  Maybe she doesn't care, like me.  I can't seem to get interested in holidays.  I expect that if you feed her yummy food and you're nice to her, she'll enjoy herself regardless of whether it's turkey and football or pasta and a good film.  

[WayAbvPar]

Another car trip with the infant.    So looking forward to an hour and a half of unhappy, crying baby.

At least we're not cooking.

Ugh. We were relatively lucky- ours tends to fall asleep in the car. Now that I have said that I am sure he will scream all the way to Bellingham on Thursday.

[Cyrrex]

I wouldn't even bother with the turkey if the local grocery store didn't give us a free one every year.  Maybe she doesn't care, like me.  I can't seem to get interested in holidays.  I expect that if you feed her yummy food and you're nice to her, she'll enjoy herself regardless of whether it's turkey and football or pasta and a good film. 

From the original message, it sounded like she was the one who had the whole turkey idea.

Do like the rest of us do.  Change the meaning of the holiday to something personal that you can get on board with.  Maybe it's the day that we slaughter all the hated turkeys, exacting our revenge for hundreds of years of having turkeys around doing turkey-like things!  The fuckers, we'll show 'em!  

[Samwise]

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that turkey is not an integral part of Thanksgiving.  These people are communists and/or zombies.

[Yegolev]

About cooking, this year I have had pumpkin pie added to my list.  That's what happens when you make a pumpkin pie that makes people's eyes roll back in their heads.  The secret?  Very unhealthy ingredients.

Other things which mean Thanksgiving to me:
gravy
fried okra
turkey "fingers"
cornbread pan dressing, normal and with salt substitute, turkey and chicken
squash casserole (my assigned dish)
fried chicken
fried green tomatoes
ham
macaroni-and-cheese
deviled eggs
snap beans
lima beans
various field peas
corn on the cob
mashed potatoes
banana pudding
various layer cakes
lemon cake

I'd agree with Samwise.  The only time that grocery stores even have turkey in stock is Thanksgiving.  Maybe there are some places where people eat turkey all year, but it's not in the South.

[JWIV]

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that turkey is not an integral part of Thanksgiving.  These people are communists and/or zombies.

Turkey is okay, but I'm more a fan of Southern Maryland stuffed ham - but that's more of an all holidays type dish.

[Yegolev]

On Thanksgiving, I'd reclassify ham as a side-dish.

[Rasix]

Maybe there are some places where people eat turkey all year, but it's not in the South.

My inlaws do.  Mainly it's because my mother-in-law has like 4 total things that she cooks and a turkey breast is one of them.

Luckily, my family does a better Thanksgiving all around.  I could subsist off the side dishes alone.

[Ingmar]

You can have Thanksgiving without commemorating Indian slaughter just like you can have Christmas without any Jesus, don't worry about it so much.

Our Thanksgiving is always at my aunt's place that used to be a commune, all of their old commune friends come back (well lots of them anyway) plus whatever random assorted odd people they invite, plus family. It makes for kind of a   mix of people, usually about 30-35 total. I don't think I've ever watched football on Thanksgiving? Maybe the one time we went to NJ to have Thanksgiving with Sjofn's family.

I'd agree with Samwise.  The only time that grocery stores even have turkey in stock is Thanksgiving.  Maybe there are some places where people eat turkey all year, but it's not in the South.

Gah, that's almost as bad as when I lived in PA and the only time the grocery stores ever had lamb was for Passover.  

[Samwise]

I eat turkey all year, but almost always in sandwich or burger form.

Yeg, your list is missing cranberry sauce.  And pecan pie.  I am suspicious.

[Mrbloodworth]

HAM.

[Lantyssa]

Yeg, your list is missing cranberry sauce.  And pecan pie.  I am suspicious.

I was wondering how we made it this far without a single mention of cranberry sauce.

[Cyrrex]

Cranberry sauce needs to die in a car fire.  If Satan had to bring a dish to Thanksgiving dinner, that's what he'd bring.