People are broken

[Lantyssa]

Poor lighting or other factors, like she assumed the guy in her bed was her husband.  It wouldn't have to be a twin, or even a sibling.

There's a big difference between sneaking into a bed pretending to be a third party and me telling someone, "I'm Rachel Maddow, want to make some news?"

(Though I would still consider the latter reprehensible and veering into shades of grey.)

[gryeyes]

Dave did say he "pretended", so I was assuming it was a twin brother that tricked her.

I was getting that there was intent on the brothers part,but who knows. Tho I would view much less blatantly wrong situations as getting close to the edge of legality.

[Engels]

ok, ok, but imagine you had boasted you had a huge schlong and then got into bed with a lightly microwaved kielbasa.

[TheWalrus]

Well that would just be hilarious.

[Engels]

especially if there was nobody in bed with you at the time! That ain't rape in my book. Just good ole fashioned love makin'.

[MahrinSkel]

No, I started from the position that the guy in question was a class-A scumbag who deserved to be charged with something, but that taking the position that gaining consent through the use of deception was always rape was somewhat...problematic, since it defined nearly every single 20-something guy I ever met as a rapist.  The blog denizens were perfectly okay with that characterization, and several long-time commentors flat-out called me a rapist, and a front-pager didn't quite agree with them outright, but made it clear that my reductio ad absurdum arguments of how men or women frequently used deception in pursuit of sexual goals (plastic surgery, anyone?) were unacceptably sexist, and only my privileged position as a male kept me from seeing how men lying for sex was rape, but women never lied or deceived for sex, and if they did it couldn't be rape because they started from a position of unequal power and only lied to disarm the males, so women lying for sex was rape *by* the males being lied to.  When I shifted my examples to involve two women or two men lying to each other for sex, I got locked from responding.  Apparently that was offensively hetero-normative to another, aggressively lesbian, front-pager, to suggest that homosexual relationships could involve rape was to project my own hetero-rapist impulses into settings where they had no meaning, since homosexuality is inherently a meeting of equals.

I sent an email to the frontpager shotgun address, pointing out the various levels of irrationality and hypocrisy represented at various stages (I was even polite, using profanity only in quotes from threads), and the only result I saw from that was an IP block the next day.  Feminism doesn't need to be declared dead.  Just put 3 modern feminists in the same room, and they'll spend the rest of the day arguing about what feminism *is*.  Meanwhile, those of us who find the entire "identity politics" edifice to be tedious and stupid will continue trying to establish a new umbrella term, like "Dignitarian" (the principle that everyone is entitled to be treated with equal dignity, regardless of all other factors of origin, characteristics, or position).

--Dave

[lamaros]

How fascinating.

[schild]

Meanwhile, those of us who find the entire "identity politics" edifice to be tedious and stupid will continue trying to establish a new umbrella term, like "Dignitarian" (the principle that everyone is entitled to be treated with equal dignity, regardless of all other factors of origin, characteristics, or position).

On the internet? I think you're looking for the word indignitarian.

[Ironwood]

 

[Endie]

I may have made a wrong assumption, but I was reading it as if the wrong brother hops into the sack with his sister-in-law and then they get it on in a consensual fashion, and then she discovers later that it wasn't her husband?  Dave did say he "pretended", so I was assuming it was a twin brother that tricked her.

The great thing about going out with an identical twin (well, one of the great things) is that you can have sex with one while pretending you're having sex with the other one, and get all the frissant of an affair without the expense and deleting of text messages.

No, I started from the position that the guy in question was a class-A scumbag who deserved to be charged with something, but that taking the position that gaining consent through the use of deception was always rape was somewhat...problematic, since it defined nearly every single 20-something guy I ever met as a rapist.

I am very fucking far from being a Dworkinite radical feminist, but I do think that she had a point of sorts when she said "in seduction, often the rapist bothers to buy a bottle of wine."

[Sir T]

You dont have to read Hegel to realise there is always a certain amount of inequality in a relationship, and who is "bieng raped" can change from hour to hour.

[HaemishM]

That last post made me realize I haven't read this thread, and that realization alone was enough to make me happy.

[Broughden]

So come to find out all the cool and hip people are doing the incest thing......

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20307481,00.html

That same year, she went to rehab – with her father. Her sexual relationship with him had become consensual.

[UnSub]

NOT THE MAMAS AND THE PAPAS! 

"My father was not a man with boundaries."

Nominee for: Understatement of the Year

[Margalis]

The feminist blogosphere is good for lulz and not much else.

[Sky]

The feminist blogosphere is good for lulz and not much else.

[Endie]

The feminist blogosphere is good for lulz and not much else.

Awww, bless the little ladies.

[voodoolily]

Pfffft if misleading girls about your identity for sex was a crime I would be fucked.

Not to defend gryeyes, but people do this all the time when they take off their wedding ring in public and go out trawling. Infidelity isn't the same as rape, even if the people you slept with would never have slept with you had they known you were married.

[voodoolily]

So come to find out all the cool and hip people are doing the incest thing......

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20307481,00.html

That same year, she went to rehab – with her father. Her sexual relationship with him had become consensual.

I heard this was all a lie to sensationalize the book she just published.

[kaid]

I find it hard to trust the word of somebody who has been strung out their entire life and is how hawking a tell all book.

[Sky]

I find it hard to trust the word of somebody who has been strung out their entire life and is how hawking a tell all book.

Dick Cheney?

[gryeyes]

Not to defend gryeyes

I was being 1,000% facetious. I thought infidelity was still a crime in most places?

[voodoolily]

I'm pretty sure infidelity is not considered criminal in any court nowadays, but it certainly can't be construed as rape.

[gryeyes]

Well of course its not fucking rape,after a quick google its still a criminal offense in several states. And prosecutions still occur,albeit rarely. Like just about everything,its a matter of degree. Lying about cock=Sad but legal. Dressing up like someones spouse and sneaking into their bed=Crime.

[voodoolily]

Well of course its not fucking rape,after a quick google its still a criminal offense in several states. And prosecutions still occur,albeit rarely. Like just about everything,its a matter of degree. Lying about cock=Sad but legal. Dressing up like someones spouse and sneaking into their bed=Crimekeeping it interesting.

fify

[NowhereMan]

So is wearing a push up bra rape or not?

[Sky]

If someone pretends to be me to sleep with a woman and it works, does that mean I get a freebie with her?

[Endie]

Anyone who thinks infidelity isn't a criminal offence anywhere should visit central Islamistan some time.  Choose the right country, mind: the Saudi preference for a quick beheading for the man (with artful distraction at the last moment to ease the sentence) may seem a touch draconian, but women are often more likely to receive the penalty of death by stoning, which would really ruin one's good day.

[lac]

As a parent of young children I must applaud every likewisely loving parent, preoccupied with fledgling offspring, who still finds the required energy to have a consistent shag on the side.
Kudo's to you mister or misses, you are by far a more energetic person than I am as my extra-curricular sensual desire these days seems to have limited itself to a good night of sleep.

But even then, in reality I've always been to lazy to consider an affair, I'm sure it's really invigorating to ones self image and I'm confident some of my friends put some extra quality into their life's through it but I can't see it working for me. A good affair does seem to require a decent effort and even if I could muster that, I don't think I have the moral ambiguity to pull it off successfully.

But rape, yea, anytime.

[Tale]

In 20 years, people will be broken AND IMMORTAL! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6217676/Immortality-only-20-years-away-says-scientist.html

[Sir T]

I find it hard to trust the word of somebody who has been strung out their entire life and is how hawking a tell all book.

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT A WOMAN WOULD MAKE UP A STORY OF RAPE TO MAKE MONEY AND GET PUBLICITY!!! ITS A SERIOUS ISS... oh hang on Jordan said she was raped too last week.

[gryeyes]

Anyone who thinks infidelity isn't a criminal offence anywhere should visit central Islamistan some time.

The scope of the conversation was obviously US/UKish areas.

But even then, in reality I've always been to lazy to consider an affair, I'm sure it's really invigorating to ones self image and I'm confident some of my friends put some extra quality into their life's through it but I can't see it working for me.

For some reason cheating/betraying your wife or even long term girlfriend is one of the most despicable things I can imagine. Im fairly amoral in most other respects but its something I judge my peers harshly for,even going so far to discontinue or limit relationships with people who do so. If they can betray someone in that circumstance they will have no qualms fucking over anyone,anytime for anything. If you want to fuck other people speak on it and alter/end the relationship. That so many people cheat during relationships is a pretty disheartening fact of human interactions.

[Lantyssa]

In 20 years, people will be broken AND IMMORTAL! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6217676/Immortality-only-20-years-away-says-scientist.html

Whee!  I wonder if I can get cool glowing eyes.

[lac]

I don't know, I know some pretty decent guys who will screw anything slightly warm, still it doesn't make them bad husbands or fathers. Although they are obviously assholes.

Fun facts:
Most of them somehow have reasonably stable marriages.
They are the same guys who were screwing around when they were 16.
They, without exception, are extremely jealous about their wifes.
They'll never stop cheating. Ever.
If they are drunk they'll go for everything. In its broadest sense.
You think they are great guys to have a beer with.
Unfortunately so does your wife.
They love their wifes. They feel there is no comparison between a random shag and their wifes. Emotionally those are two different worlds.
Aside from knocking them the fuck out there is nothing that will stop them once they think they got game.

It's what makes them great fun to have a beer with, of course, if you come home and tell your wife about the hilarious ways in which your friends were shirt chasing you will be in trouble.

[gryeyes]

I don't know, I know some pretty decent guys who will screw anything slightly warm, still it doesn't make them bad husbands or fathers.

Yes it does.

You do not have a stable marriage if you are cheating,period. The relationship is predicated on your spouse and generally children's ignorance of who you are and what you do. Love does not preclude beating the dogshit out of your wife or cheating on her,love is not a get out of jail card for behaving like a scumbag. There is no "emotional" comparison between the two acts,its completely irrelevant to why its wrong. People are not completely dishonest to the closest individuals in their life,while maintaining a standard of honesty with everyone else. Your friends (and mine) who cheat on their wives and jeopardize their children's wellbeing for random twat are the same guys who will fuck your girl or wife if the opportunity presents itself. I have a few friends who have cheated on their wives and they are complete pieces of shit for doing so. Its not funny or cute,it takes no particular skill and in the hierarchy of fucked up things its damn near the top of the list.

If the guy smacked around his wife and children would it be likewise amusing? Id rank the things about equal in the damage they would cause to the family and individual.