Winter Orgy: 2009, The "Doesn't Quite Make up for this Crappy Summer" Edition

[Riggswolfe]

Well my copy of Risen just arrived. Oddly Amazon's refund is also going through so I figure they'll either call/email me about it and ask for it back or tell me to pay for it or I'll end up getting it for free.

[sidereal]

I got killed by a wolf and turned the demo off.  My patience of unhappiness has become amazingly short in the last decade or so.  It's at the point where I'll probably just pay someone else to play for me to save time.

[CaptainNapkin]

I picked Risen up from D2D for 40 bucks. Having fun with it, but questioning my decision on the faction I chose. The game doesn't really tell you if it will have an impact on skills and abilities you can learn, but it leads on to that effect. So it leaves me wondering if I'm going to find out hours into the game that I should have gone another route.

[Riggswolfe]

As far as skills and such by faction:

[Montague]

Looked for Risen on my lunch break, and judging from the Gamestop flunky's face I might as well have asked if they had lemon-meringue pies in stock. Where can I get this game?

[sidereal]

Steam

Also, the demo is there if you want to be killed by wolves and/or vultures.

[Montague]

Steam

Also, the demo is there if you want to be killed by wolves and/or vultures.

I managed to pick up the last copy at the ghetto Gamestop from a chick with a lowcut blouse and a bad case of breast acne.  

This had better be worth it.

[rattran]

The 'Day One DLC (Cough up $7 more than the box price, Chump)' has put me off buying Dragon Age : Origins. It just feels like a money grab. Sell me a whole game, fuckers.

If it turns out to be the robot jebus, I'll pick up a game of the year edition in 6-12 months with all the added content at the same price.
<edit> Link to the Info 3 bits of day 1 dlc, 2 are free with preorder/new purchase, 1 is 560live points $7.

[Velorath]

Or you could just buy the game and not worry about the dlc.

[schild]

Or you could just buy the game and not worry about the dlc.

There's no reason to have Day 1 DLC. In fact, it's pretty repulsive. It screams "We could've included this, and should've, but EA likes a moneygrab."

[Azazel]

Yeah, Day1 DLC makes me feel the same way.

Along with DLC to unlock shit that is actually already on the disc, which is even more repulsive IMO. Looking at Namco/Soul Calibur (and no doubt Tekken 6 as well).

edit - in fact, as someone who now spends quite a lot on original games, it fucks me off to the degree of having an attitude similar to my "fuck off" to overwrought DLC, which is pretty much "fuck you, I won't buy your shit, and I may in fact pirate it instead to say fuck you."

Of course, I bought Soul Calibur (not realising it had shit locked on the disc), and I did buy Beatles Rock Band and it's Day1 DLC. The fact that it was "for charity" helped a little, but yeah, it does make me a hypocryte for supporting it.

[Velorath]

Or you could just buy the game and not worry about the dlc.

There's no reason to have Day 1 DLC. In fact, it's pretty repulsive. It screams "We could've included this, and should've, but EA likes a moneygrab."

Sure there's a reason.  It's called "we announced this game over 5 years ago so we've probably been working on it for at least 6 years, and just selling the game for $50-60 isn't going to get us a satisfactory return on our investment".  They could have held off on releasing it for a few months to give the illusion that this is content they started working on after the game went gold, but in the long run that doesn't really change shit.  Either you think the content is going to be worth $7 and you buy it, or you don't.

As I've said before, the "I'll just wait and get the GOTY version for the same price and with all the content" isn't some super sneaky trick to get over on The Man.  Most of the time you're just buying the base game for it's discounted price since it's been out so long and then essentially paying full price for all the DLC.  If rattran were really smart he'd wait to the GOTY version came out, buy the regular version really cheap instead, and then pick and choose any DLC he's really interested in.

[Stormwaltz]

Hypothetically speaking, "day one DLC" content could include quite a bit of work that could not be done in time to RTM. Remember that you rarely see a game when it's done; you see it after it's been mastered, manufactured, distributed, and put in store shelves. Depending on the case, that may be 1-4 months after it leaves the team's hands. And what are they doing in the meantime? Why not finish off content that had to be cut for ship?

So, again hypothetically, you may have a case where a character has a model, and perhaps even VO on the disc, but the work required to complete his or her interactions throughout the game was pushed off to be finished after the code was out the door.

[Sky]

Or just buy the game, enjoy it, and move on. Fallout 3 worked great for that. I really enjoyed the game but don't see any reason to buy more stuff for it.

Not sure if I've ever bought DLC. Games are either good out of the box or not. Guess I don't understand the anger, this is a for profit business and people are going to try and enhance monetization. As long as the games are still reasonably priced it's not big deal. But go ahead and rage on about $7 of DLC and don't worry about the $10-20 premium on console games lalz.

[Murgos]

It's actually included with 'Deluxe digital download packages', whatever that means.

But yeah, Day1 for pay DLC just has the appearance of being inappropriate.  At least wait 6 weeks, then everyone will be like, "OMG, they totally kick ass." instead of, "Bunch of greedy dickheads."

[Trippy]

Hypothetically speaking, "day one DLC" content could include quite a bit of work that could not be done in time to RTM. Remember that you rarely see a game when it's done; you see it after it's been mastered, manufactured, distributed, and put in store shelves. Depending on the case, that may be 1-4 months after it leaves the team's hands. And what are they doing in the meantime? Why not finish off content that had to be cut for ship?

So, again hypothetically, you may have a case where a character has a model, and perhaps even VO on the disc, but the work required to complete his or her interactions throughout the game was pushed off to be finished after the code was out the door.

There's nothing wrong with patching in content on release day. The thing people are complaining about is paying extra for that.

Imagine if MMOs did that sort of crap on release day...

[Azazel]

Hypothetically speaking, "day one DLC" content could include quite a bit of work that could not be done in time to RTM. Remember that you rarely see a game when it's done; you see it after it's been mastered, manufactured, distributed, and put in store shelves. Depending on the case, that may be 1-4 months after it leaves the team's hands. And what are they doing in the meantime? Why not finish off content that had to be cut for ship?

So, again hypothetically, you may have a case where a character has a model, and perhaps even VO on the disc, but the work required to complete his or her interactions throughout the game was pushed off to be finished after the code was out the door.

You mean like Darth Vader/Yoda/additional costumes being already on the disc and simply locked? Because that's what I'm talking about.

There's nothing wrong with patching in content on release day. The thing people are complaining about is paying extra for that.
Imagine if MMOs did that sort of crap on release day...

Also, this. Bigtime.


Sky - see what Murgos said. Well, his second sentence.

[Velorath]

There's nothing wrong with patching in content on release day. The thing people are complaining about is paying extra for that.
Imagine if MMOs did that sort of crap on release day...

Also, this. Bigtime.

Huh?  MMO's are getting $15 bucks a month out of you regardless of whether they're giving you new content that month or not, unless we're talking about microtransaction MMO's.

[sidereal]

I'm not sure why this seems so complicated.  The usually unspoken implication of game development is that the development house worked their asses off to make the absolute best game with the most stuff they could by the release date, and then they sell it to you in a box.  By selling addons at release, they're clearly communicating that they actually spent a bunch of time on some other stuff that they could have put in the first box but chose not to.  In other words, the stuff in the first box wasn't the best possible thing they could make in the time allowed.  And many people don't like that.  And many other people don't care.  And some of both will buy it anyway.  So what are people disagreeing about?

[Murgos]

Huh?  MMO's are getting $15 bucks a month out of you regardless of whether they're giving you new content that month or not, unless we're talking about microtransaction MMO's.

All MMO's that I can think of give you the first month of on-line play "free" with the original box purchase.

[Velorath]

Huh?  MMO's are getting $15 bucks a month out of you regardless of whether they're giving you new content that month or not, unless we're talking about microtransaction MMO's.

All MMO's that I can think of give you the first month of on-line play "free" with the original box purchase.

No shit.  What's your point?

[Murgos]

No shit.  What's your point?

I guess it was just that you're pretty obtuse, but I guess that went without saying.

[Trippy]

My point was imagine an MMO charging you for the release day patch on top of the "box" cost and the subscription fee.

[Montague]

My point was imagine an MMO charging you for the release day patch on top of the "box" cost and the subscription fee.

DLC and MMO patches are apples and oranges though, at least for the MMO's I've played in that patches are always free and the ongoing development cost is subsumed in the monthly subscription fee (which is what Velorath was trying to get at, I believe). Charging for content patches at any time would likely rile people up.

A full blown expansion pack released at the same time would be extremely questionable, but only because of the inherent competition aspect of MMO's. With single player you don't HAVE to buy the DLC to enjoy the game.

[Trippy]

A release day "DLC" of the kind Stormwaltz described is exactly like a release day MMO patch. It's the content/bug fixes the developers added after the GMs were made.

[Velorath]

No shit.  What's your point?

I guess it was just that you're pretty obtuse, but I guess that went without saying.

Jesus fucking Christ.  It doesn't matter that you get a month free.  Very few MMO developers charge for DLC because it's generally understood that anything short of a full on expansion is paid for by monthly fees.  This makes the question of "what if an MMO released DLC on Day 1" kind of ridiculous.  The only developer I can think of that tried that is SOE releasing adventure packs for EQ2 a few months after launch.

Trippy's clarification that he's talking about release day patches really doesn't fit in with what initially started this conversation.  The Dragon Age DLC that's launching on Day 1 doesn't consist of bug fixes or anything required to play the game.  It consists of the following:

BioWare today announced that Dragon Age: Origins will get its first downloadable expansion on day one. Called the Warden's Keep, the DLC will add a dungeon-based quest to the game along with six new abilities, a variety of items, and a base where players can trade with merchants. It will feature a supernatural storyline set in an ancient--and possibly haunted--fortress once used as a redoubt by the Grey Wardens, the ancient order at the center of Origins' main storyline. (A magic suit of Grey Warden armor will be one of the items in the add-on.)

[rattran]

I think I'll be extra smart, not buy the game when it releases, then not buy it when the goty edition comes out. Plenty of other games out there.

[Murgos]

This makes the question of "what if an MMO released PAY to PLAY DLC on Day 1" kind of ridiculous. 

Hey, there you go, you said it yourself and no one even had to put words into your mouth.  Amazing how that's on topic and to the point and everything.

MMO's, as notoriously greedy as they are, go out of their way to NOT give the impression that they are charging you for anything day one other than the game you paid for which makes Bioware doing it stand out even more.

[Velorath]

This makes the question of "what if an MMO released PAY to PLAY DLC on Day 1" kind of ridiculous. 

Hey, there you go, you said it yourself and no one even had to put words into your mouth.  Amazing how that's on topic and to the point and everything.

You just put words in my mouth, and the resulting statement is a completely unrealistic scenario that has no parallels to the Dragon Age scenario.

As has already been mentioned, MMO's with sub fee's typically never charge you for extra content aside from expansions because it's understood that you're already paying $15 every month.  This isn't the case with Dragon Age.  Also MMO's can't charge for release day patches consisting of bug fixes because everyone in an MMO has to be using the same client.  To charge for a patch would mean that not buying meant you couldn't play the game.  Again, not the case with the Dragon Age DLC.

When more MMO's start adopting a microtransaction based model, you should fully expect DLC on release day.  If SWTOR does indeed go microtransactions I can almost guarantee there will be stuff for sale on Day 1.

[Azazel]

Then again, if it's microtransaction based, they shouldn't be charginy ou for the client or a sub. But they probably will.

Regardless, shit like Soul Calibur is especially dirty, since they're just charging you to unlock finished stuff on the disc. And let's face it, those of us with PC gaming backgrounds are used to shit like extra maps and little bits and pieces being free content that the devs patch in later, seperate from buying a full expansion.

I should start doing some BiiFs for DLC. 

But fuckit, some of you are happy to pay it, so that's the way the market will turn. The latest Shilling thread is full of people almost offering to pay $20+ a month for an MMO for no real reason.

Maybe I should just go back to the way I was when I was a teenager and pirate stuff instead of buying it. 

[Azazel]

Another Necropost.

Working out what shit is left for me to buy this year at this point. Mayby-ing on Saboteur and DA:O.

Sab seems to be one of the final entries, being just released.

Anything relevent left for 2009?

[Montague]

Another Necropost.

Working out what shit is left for me to buy this year at this point. Mayby-ing on Saboteur and DA:O.

Sab seems to be one of the final entries, being just released.

Anything relevent left for 2009?

I'm in your boat. The wife is demanding an Xmas list and I've already picked up Fallen Earth, DA:O, Borderlands, Torchlight, and Risen, and I don't really care about Ass Creed 2. Anything else out there?

[schild]

I'm in your boat. The wife is demanding an Xmas list and I've already picked up Fallen Earth, DA:O, Borderlands, Torchlight, and Risen, and I don't really care about Ass Creed 2. Anything else out there?

Given next year, the top of everyone's Christmas list should be an ATI 5870.

[Yegolev]

But... ATi.

I think the next hardware project for my PC will be to make it sound less like a hairdryer.  I feel extra-old when I admit that.

[Murgos]

But... ATi.

ATI has a lot going right for them at the moment, you may have to get used to it.