CCP Shanghai making console FPS aka EvE 360 - via Kotaku

[Falwell]

Take one teensy little interceptor (and remove the wierd non-Newtonian speed limiter that the Eve client fits to it).  Give it a good run-up, point it at a planet and start accelerating.  My ares can go from zero to 4km/s in a second, so using s=0.5*a*(t^2) a mere 450,000 km is enough for your interceptor to be doing relativistic velocities by the time it hits the planet 75 seconds later.  It asks questions of the eve physics engine (where is the energy stored which is being translated into planet-shattering speed?) but it works.

See? That.. That shit right there is why we can't have nice things, because you all fell for Endie's trap.

Endie lures you into moving this to the general MMO forum so that he can pour out his Eve spreadsheet disease to the general populace when we already had him PERFECTLY QUARANTEENED in the Eve forums! He's unchained now, unleashed, primal and savage. They'll be no escaping his Excel infection and you should all make amends with your deity of choice with all haste.

[IainC]

I bought 30k M3 of Enriched Uranium over the past few days with a 4100 isk buy order. That was pretty sweet getting a 19.61% discount off the modal selling price.

[Endie]

I couldn't read the whiny Goonfleet thread on this, but I will say this: there is only one alliance in Eve which can draw on a larger base of console players than it has of Eve players, without necessarily having to shift a single one away from playing Eve to do so.  In case some of you want to work it out for yourselves I'll not spell it out, but it rhymes with Poonfleet.

Because nobody reads the last post on page three, but everyone reads the first post on page four  .

Also, that derail was Traveller, not Eve.

[patience]

A lot of the complaining would disappear if it was PC rather than Console only.

As is, the only way I can see it working is if the console players interact with the PC players like NPCs via a market screen.

CCP is not boring. They know and have frequently implied as much that their game is fueled by dramahuman interaction. There is no way they've spent thousands to millions of dollars on a social networking site just to not ensure Dust players get integrated into the political and social culture that keeps Eve going.

[IainC]

But how much of that interaction and politics can be ported over to a console? Part of the reason for why it works so well for the PC game is that the tools are right there anyway. You're online with your windowed eve clients and you can be on IRC, Jabber, eve-o forums, scrapheapchallenge, goonfleet.com and teamspeak all at the same time. The immediacy is lost when you have to go from your console to the PC to participate in that side of the game. The depth of the experience simply isn't present on the console yet, integrated VOIP or not.

[Fordel]

I couldn't read the whiny Goonfleet thread on this, but I will say this: there is only one alliance in Eve which can draw on a larger base of console players than it has of Eve players, without necessarily having to shift a single one away from playing Eve to do so.  In case some of you want to work it out for yourselves I'll not spell it out, but it rhymes with Poonfleet.

What would you call the ground forces? GoonTroop?

Would their avatar's be a bunch of ants instead of bees?

-edit-

GoonPlatoon!

[Endie]

Yeah, I bet GoonPlatoon shall rise again.  For real this time.

And I'm surprised people think that the interaction between Xbox and MMO will be so tricky.  Given that Shadowrun seemed to handle console and pc players interacting in real time, I am surprised that people think that the interaction likely here (shared database, chat, some resource transfer dialogues) will be that much worse.

[Typhon]

Pure speculation alert!  I think the "interaction" will be limited to public (or private, if you know what crew you want to hire and don't mind losing the bargaining power) contracts placed by EVE player factions for DUST squads to respond to.

I would imagine that the DUST player also has access to computer generated contracts as well.

I would hope that the scorched-earth-policy could still be undertaken by the EVE players, but that non-scorched planets were significantly more values such that EVE players would be willing to take the risk and shell out the cash to employ DUST squads.  Otherwise, it just seems all kind of broken.

[gryeyes]

Yeah, I bet GoonPlatoon shall rise again.  For real this time.

And I'm surprised people think that the interaction between Xbox and MMO will be so tricky.  Given that Shadowrun seemed to handle console and pc players interacting in real time, I am surprised that people think that the interaction likely here (shared database, chat, some resource transfer dialogues) will be that much worse.

Well ignoring that the GFWL initiative was developed with that interaction specifically in mind, it was still pretty awful. But its moot because I highly doubt it would be real time interaction in the first place. Beyond maybe a contract list that gets updated every so often and chat (maybe).

[eldaec]

Pure speculation alert!  I think the "interaction" will be limited to public (or private, if you know what crew you want to hire and don't mind losing the bargaining power) contracts placed by EVE player factions for DUST squads to respond to.

Problem is that FPSes don't last as long as MMOGs, hell, consoles don't last as long as EVE.

Give it six months after launch, and the only people playing will be direct offshoots of EVE alliances.

The dream that any strategically relevant DUST assignments will come from public contracts will remain forever a dream, because the various iterations of GoonPlatoon and AsscakesPlatoon will greatly outgun RandomScrubPlatoon; plus organised teams will take great delight in gaming any opportunity they have to be seeded on the opposition team.

Talk of small alliances hiring mercenaries is pointless, because the wealth of small alliances is trivial compared to that of the 0.0 power blocks.

And it is hard to see why the theoretical majority of empire alts players would ever want to hire FPS grunts anyhow.

[Fordel]

Maybe one of the big reveals is that this new FPS will be included with EVE on PCs?

[NiX]

Maybe one of the big reveals is that this new FPS will be included with EVE on PCs?

What big reveal? Though I'd highly doubt that's one of them.

[Fordel]

Didn't the presenter have a big grin when someone asked him "what about the PC?", or am I just imagining shit again?

[Endie]

Problem is that FPSes don't last as long as MMOGs, hell, consoles don't last as long as EVE.

Give it six months after launch, and the only people playing will be direct offshoots of EVE alliances.

I don't buy this.  If you can get people still playing Planetside and even bloody WWIIOL (which was really never good) after all these years then the fact that Dust 514 is, in its own right, an MMO suggests that it will maintain stickiness outside moonlighting pod pilots.

[patience]

Didn't the presenter have a big grin when someone asked him "what about the PC?", or am I just imagining shit again?

That shit was the shit eating grin the CEO was making whenever he was asked about a pc version.

Still don't get your hopes up.

Problem is that FPSes don't last as long as MMOGs, hell, consoles don't last as long as EVE.

Give it six months after launch, and the only people playing will be direct offshoots of EVE alliances.

I don't buy this.  If you can get people still playing Planetside and even bloody WWIIOL (which was really never good) after all these years then the fact that Dust 514 is, in its own right, an MMO suggests that it will maintain stickiness outside moonlighting pod pilots.

Don't even need to look at PC MMOs. Final Fantasy was very profitable for Square Enix and Phantasy Star Online according to some people was able to retain the majority of players from the Dreamcast after moving to the ps2.

MMOs are social spaces traditional games don't try to emulate and even then MMOs have by and large failed to realize their potential to compete with social networking sites. CCP realizes this and will capitalize on the shortsightedness of their peers.

[Amarr HM]

I agree with Endie, I play ETQW a fair amount and even though the company who took over there have all but brushed it aside the servers are nearly always full. This is 2-3 years on with little or no updates.

[gryeyes]

Didn't the presenter have a big grin when someone asked him "what about the PC?", or am I just imagining shit again?

You are correct, and it wouldn't surprise me. Console exclusive is too absurd to be true.

[NiX]

I wouldn't read into it, even if it is true.

[gryeyes]

Im not getting my hopes up, but at least it was ambiguous instead of a negative.

[Typhon]

Console exclusive for six months, then "port" to PC (that's a guess).  Console maker is happy cause he has an exclusive, CCP is happy cause they are making in-roads into the console market with their IP and they've made the EVE game richer (ideally more valuable), PC folks... will buy ports if they have good word of mouth, EVE players will buy anything to get an advantage in the war.

[Amarr HM]

Problem with that idea has already been said, mouse+keyboard>controller

[Venkman]

Ground-based FPS to co-exist on a PC and a console? I don't think so. This'll probably be only for consoles with some eventually-devolved impact on the EVE PC game. Like periodic XML data exports to populate some vague leaderboard that shows Corp/Alliance "advancement" while the EVE players continue their economic warfare. There'll be crossover people, as there's probably enough EVE players that also own consoles. But even if every Eve player buys the FPS version, that's not a big enough audience by half to justify the expense of an action shooter.

[schild]

Ground-based FPS to co-exist on a PC and a console? I don't think so. This'll probably be only for consoles with some eventually-devolved impact on the EVE PC game. Like periodic XML data exports to populate some vague leaderboard that shows Corp/Alliance "advancement" while the EVE players continue their economic warfare. There'll be crossover people, as there's probably enough EVE players that also own consoles. But even if every Eve player buys the FPS version, that's not a big enough audience by half to justify the expense of an action shooter.

How much money do you think they wasted on trying to figure out avatars and walking AMBULATION.

[Venkman]

Knowing them, probably around exactly how much they had

In all seriousness, they don't seem the type to secure funding, rush through that on hookers and blow, then buy some Maya Personal Learning Editions only then to realize none of what they do is going to work in engine. Or in other words, they seem pretty smart.

Making stuff walk around a level so it can have social interaction is a bit easier than making an FPS that allows for both console and PC players to co-exist in a well-balanced game. Given how much precedent there is for that...

[Falwell]

Problem with that idea has already been said, mouse+keyboard>controller

And that problem can be mostly rectified, albeit entirely at the expense of the PC player. Shadowrun, while a complete shit game from top to bottom, managed to do this to a fairly successful extent.

Or, bundle the console version with a low grade keyboard and mouse and keep the retail price as reasonable as possible. True, it does negate part of the reason for putting it on the console in the first place, but I think it's a far better option than neglecting an entire platorm. An entire platform whose major business has been FPS games for decades and the home platform of the base product.

[Endie]

Ground-based FPS to co-exist on a PC and a console? I don't think so. This'll probably be only for consoles with some eventually-devolved impact on the EVE PC game. Like periodic XML data exports to populate some vague leaderboard that shows Corp/Alliance "advancement" while the EVE players continue their economic warfare. There'll be crossover people, as there's probably enough EVE players that also own consoles. But even if every Eve player buys the FPS version, that's not a big enough audience by half to justify the expense of an action shooter.

How much money do you think they wasted on trying to figure out avatars and walking AMBULATION.

Darniaq - as people keep saying, already done: Shadowrun.

Schild, the ambulation was due out about 7 or 8 months ago.  It looks to me like they worked out the potential for this new approach and decided not to announce until they'd done feasability work.  I very much doubt if they reckon they've wasted a penny, as a result.

[Amarr HM]

As people keep saying Endie Shadowrun=pile of steaming piss 

I've not played it or know much about it to be honest, but unless the console players are given mouse and keyboards the hypothetical PC port people are discussing would eventually drive a nail in the console version, so it wouldn't be good business savvy to produce one. That's why I can't see it happening.

[eldaec]

I've not played it or know much about it to be honest, but unless the console players are given mouse and keyboards the hypothetical PC port people are discussing would eventually drive a nail in the console version, so it wouldn't be good business savvy to produce one.

Personally, I'd be completely happy with this state of affairs.

If CCP want to staple planetside onto EVE, and I can play both from a PC (so I have access to comms, forums, and all the out of game tools you use to play EVE), then I'm all over that shit.

If console players also want to join in without them getting auto-aim to compensate for having picked the wrong gaming platform, then good for them.



But, like you, I doubt anything this sensible will happen.

[Endie]

As people keep saying Endie Shadowrun=pile of steaming piss 

I've not played it or know much about it to be honest, but unless the console players are given mouse and keyboards the hypothetical PC port people are discussing would eventually drive a nail in the console version, so it wouldn't be good business savvy to produce one. That's why I can't see it happening.

The point about Shadowrun isn't that it was a good game - I detested it, personally - but that it proved that console and keyboard players, and in this context just as importantly XBox Live and PC gamers, could be happily integrated.  And yet there are still people on this page saying that can't happen.

[eldaec]

They were integrated, but not happily.

PC players had to put up with console auto-aim, and having treacle poured over the movement system so that the console controllers could keep up.

[Pennilenko]

EVE players will buy anything to get an advantage in the war.

I think the quoted line is what CCP is banking on.

[Falwell]

As people keep saying Endie Shadowrun=pile of steaming piss 

I've not played it or know much about it to be honest, but unless the console players are given mouse and keyboards the hypothetical PC port people are discussing would eventually drive a nail in the console version, so it wouldn't be good business savvy to produce one. That's why I can't see it happening.

The point about Shadowrun isn't that it was a good game - I detested it, personally - but that it proved that console and keyboard players, and in this context just as importantly XBox Live and PC gamers, could be happily integrated.  And yet there are still people on this page saying that can't happen.

Good point about Xbox live. When this sees light of day, the 360 is the virtually guaranteed console and I could easily see it going exclusive. CCP has been in bed with MS for quite some time now, working with them to integrate HPC into their server cluster etc.

CCP HPC Case Study

[eldaec]

XBox live doesn't have sufficient global coverage.

To pick one example entirely at random, you can't get it in Russia.

[gryeyes]

The point about Shadowrun isn't that it was a good game - I detested it, personally - but that it proved that console and keyboard players, and in this context just as importantly XBox Live and PC gamers, could be happily integrated.  And yet there are still people on this page saying that can't happen.

I don't think anyone is doubting that they can be integrated, but that PC users still had a huge advantage. The things done to make it less advantageous, hurt the gameplay. Sticky aim and a cone of fire to mitigate the advantage of accuracy is shit for a PC player. And even then console players were at an extreme disadvantage. I think Shadowrun and Universe at War ended the entire GFWL goal of cross-platform play. They are if anything a good example of why it doesn't work, even when it works. That PC players were expected to pay a subscription fee for multi-player support didn't help its popularity. Anyway, didn't they announce both Xbox and PS3 as target platforms?

[Hellinar]

As people keep saying Endie Shadowrun=pile of steaming piss 

I've not played it or know much about it to be honest, but unless the console players are given mouse and keyboards the hypothetical PC port people are discussing would eventually drive a nail in the console version, so it wouldn't be good business savvy to produce one. That's why I can't see it happening.

Why would console and PC players have to fight in the same sectors? With a ton of battlegrounds on each planet, the server could allocate exclusive battlegrounds proportional to the numbers of each type of player logged in.