CCP Shanghai making console FPS aka EvE 360 - via Kotaku

[Jayce]

A few things that come to mind:

The mercenary idea has never worked in EVE, as compelling as it sounds.  All the mercenary-themed alliances dissolved or became married to their employers.

Stront timing is the mechanic that levels the timezone playing field in current sov warfare.  Will there be a similar mechanic in the ground game?  Can FPS players be expected to care?  Correct me if I'm wrong (been years since I played an FPS) but the main draw of an FPS is to be able to jump in, shoot some dudes for a half hour or so, then leave without consequence.  If your brosefs or income are counting on you to be there at a certain time, that destroys that aspect of the attraction of an FPS.

Consequences:  In EVE lots of things are based around harsh consequences.  If you die in the FPS do you get to instantly respawn or do you lose something?  How do you get it back? Will there be..... farming?    If there is no consequence, how will objectives be decided? Keep throwing players at it till one side gets bored?

What is the reach of Xbox/PS3 and their associated online services?  Do as many Brazilians or Russians or Hungarians per capita have Xbox 360s as Americans or Brits? Will this be a sideways nerf to some countries where there is no console online service, or it costs more, or consoles are rarer?

[schild]

Chinese FPS MMO?

I don't know about you, but I can't wait.

[NiX]

Huxley? Is that you!?

[Pax]

How will such mercs "respawn"?
Pod pilots are immortal demigods but how this translates to ground combat between mundanes I don't know...

[lac]

If you die in the FPS you respawn in the MMO and vice versa. Just make sure you place your console near your pc.

[Soln]

Wow.  Brilliant.  Seriously, good for them.

[Pennilenko]

Im not afraid to say, that I have abandoned common sense and am definitely gonna get my hopes up on this one. This could make players like me serious assets to their corps. I love me some console fps. Shit my corp would have an every day ground enforcer.

[eldaec]

My guess is they interact through the market.

ie.

FPS success provides materials and loot for space manufacturing.

Space manufacturing provides gear for FPS.

I can't see any of it being set in 0.0, not because it would be such a problem if there was FPS in my EVE; but jesus christ CONSOLE FPS in my EVE? Get out.

do console MMOs work at all, the lag would probably be horrendous

What the fuck are you talking about? Why in the name of all that is holy do you think network packets shot out of the ass of a console would travel any slower than those from a PC?

[Mrbloodworth]

This may be one way I would play eve, Eve space combat is a complete turn off for me. They should have added (twitch) fighters years ago, but nooooo.... Lag drones got that covered.

[Thrawn]

Tying to two together just seems stupid to me because you know you won't be able to do stuff like bombard a planet from space or cut off supplies in a way that will effect the ground wars etc...

[Amarr HM]

My initial impression is that this will be introduced as an extension of factional warfare or something similar. I don't think it will correlate with 0.0 but who knows.

[Mrbloodworth]

Tying to two together just seems stupid to me because you know you won't be able to do stuff like bombard a planet from space or cut off supplies in a way that will effect the ground wars etc...

Space funds, and directs objectives of the ground.

[Simond]

Why fight on the ground when you can just park half a dozen Apocs in orbit and glass anyone that looks at you funny?

[schild]

By the way, my comment was a joke. This whole idea is ridiculous to me, in every possible way.

[ajax34i]

I don't think they want you to get a console and play a marine in order to hold SOV, although most alliances will probably do that.  I think they want us to throw money at the planets, in the form of "if you conquer this planet in the name of Alliance X, they will pay you 3 billion ISKs" contracts. 

EVE players will basically fund the wallets of the DUST players, as well as create missions and content for them.  Take any system in 0.0, I don't think any planet in it will be available as a DUST battleground scenario until fleets clash and sov becomes contested, at which point the DUST players can queue up to fight in said planet battlegrounds, until a winner is determined.

That's what I imagine they're trying to do.  They don't want us to try to play DUST, they want us to throw money at planets so that DUST players get funded.

[Thrawn]

I think the potential for the idea is huge, I think the reality will be a steaming pile.

[Amarr HM]

I think the potential for the idea is huge, I think the reality will be a steaming pile.

Yes and probably, but I hope not.

[palmer_eldritch]

He talks in that video about sovereignty currently being dictated by the number of player owned structures you own in a solar system, and goes on to say that Dust will become "one of those inputs" or something like that (not sure if "inputs" is the word he uses).

So that does sound like it affects 0.0 sovereignty. (edit - unless I just don't understand factional warfare, which is possible)

I want to know more about how contracting people to fight for you actually works. It could mean that the alliances currently holding lots of space and wealth-generating moons have even more of an advantage, because they are rich (and presumably can pay more mercs). I am in one of those alliances so woo hoo! but objectively I can see that would be a bad idea.

But it seems to me there are two possibilities, if we assume that Eve players and players of this FPS are generally different people.

i) Alliances through their wealth or cunning are able to give their side in the ground war a major advantage, in which case playing the FPS would kind of suck for the opposing side.

or

ii) Alliances can make only a fairly limited difference to the ground war, in which case the FPS may be fun, but the outcome is effectively random from the point of view of the Eve player.

Or maybe CCP will explain their plan more, and it will all make sense

[ajax34i]

I'd speculate that yeah trying to take a planet in the middle of alliance space would suck, but if the player can queue for whatever they wish, they can always go to NPC-0.0, lowsec, or, heck, PVE it on a high-sec planet.

The thing is, EVE is partly about logistics, gathering cash, and building infrastructure, and they're describing the DUST game as purely FPS: you start with a pistol and you upgrade your gear by walking over guns and/or power-ups.  No talk about being able to take that vehicle with you to your next mission, or anything belonging to anyone, so I don't know how they're going to make the two games work.  Maybe it's the job of the orbitting fleet to drop gear and vehicles and "set up" the scenario so the ground players have toys to play with.

[dwindlehop]

It could mean that the alliances currently holding lots of space and wealth-generating moons have even more of an advantage, because they are rich (and presumably can pay more mercs). I am in one of those alliances so woo hoo! but objectively I can see that would be a bad idea.

This is what bothers me about the little that has been announced so far. So instead of dropping 100B on caps, you drop 100B on mercs and now you get sov. Not a huge change from POS and cap spam.

I figure each "district" on a planet is a 32v32 map or so and the number of districts in-play goes up and down with the number of online players.

[Pezzle]

My hunch is the FPS, the MMO and ambulation will all hit in close proximity.

[Meester]

* Meester builds up supply of small arms & planetry vehicles

[patience]

Why fight on the ground when you can just park half a dozen Apocs in orbit and glass anyone that looks at you funny?

Why doesn't the airforce dominate modern warfare? You need infantry to hold territory. You use airpower or in Eve's case orbital assets to blow shit up that you can afford to blow up.

Geeze some of you are focusing on the FPS aspects a little too much. If the Gamasutra quote is accurate then CCPs goal is to make a second MMO on the console. In light of this objective their decisions make sense.

The FPS genre is king in the console space and studies show a large portion of console users don't crossover to pc gaming compared to the other way around.

Secondly in light of this point don't expect this game to have dinky rooms of 4-32 players but instead expect it to compete with MAG or even excel over Planetside and have 200-500 players.


That said it would be asinine to have the console game be exclusive while being tied into a mechanic like SOV. Sure they intend to change it SOV but we all see a lot of potential here for CCP Shanghai to screw up and make the mechanic terrible for the MMO corps, the console mercs or even both at the same time.

Frankly I'm looking forward to this a lot but I won't play the game if it is console exclusive. I already have one console and I'm not getting another when I want to upgrade my PC for Mechwarrior.

[Nerf]

Don't be stupid, air power doesn't dominate modern warfare because we're concerned with things like collateral damage and civilian casualties.  In a game, no one gives a fuck about that.  Nuke everything, rinse, repeat.

Remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki?  That's what air power means when you stop caring about anything but winning.

[Margalis]

This sounds like a cool but likely terrible idea in practice.

Imagine if you are say a FFXI player and someone told you that the availability of Notorious Monsters was now going to be directly tied to people playing a Pokemon-style game on the DS. Or that you are a CounterStrike player and your map selection is going to be determined by people playing a trading card game.

The second someone does everything right in EVE and still loses some territory because of what happened in the console FPS there is going to be bitching to high heaven. If the FPS has any real consequences then players of the main game are going to be annoyed at things outside of their control influencing the game. And adding this in years after the fact rather than at launch is a great way to piss off the existing player base.

[Gets]

Let's not get sidetracked or everyone will start debating whether titans are more viable than mechas.

I figure each "district" on a planet is a 32v32 map or so and the number of districts in-play goes up and down with the number of online players.

This is why I don't see DUST as an actual MMO since so many recent FPSs claim to be just that and are actually more than anything regular multiplayer experiences: Huxley, Global Agenda, Section 8, etc. No idea where the RTS part comes in. EvE Wars?

The opinions on DUST have been very interesting to read. From EvE haters to spreadsheet lovers, from  to  , I don't recall CCP ever announcing anything that has resulted in such a huge spectrum of mixed feelings, and yet alll we have is a few slides, a Venn diagram* and a trailer likely done by the same people that did the one for Killzone. I personally don't own anything newer than a NES as far as consoles are concerned, but I still feel quite positive over the announcement. Because the main thing that has kept me playing EvE through it's various frustrations is the knowledge that it is always growing and expanding, not in the form of more shiney and rehashed treadmills, but with its entire virtual world horizon. If CCP knows anything it's making sure their fanbase has something to look forward to, even when the entertainment results from a horrible clusterfuck of implementation.

Look at it this way; likely not a day has gone past since someone in the game has asked whether you can walk on planets. If they think a console FPS is the best way to find an answer to that question, then more power to them. Planets have been largely ignored in the game and it's very interesting to wonder how they will solve some of the issues. I'm tired of being able to fly though planets in the game, however if they implement orbital platforms and planetary defenses (a là Sword of the Stars planetary combat) at the grids of planets, with the defense power in the hands of whatever DUST army controls the surface, then I'd be impressed. Sadly I don't think it it will be much more than a player behind his 360/PS3 triggering a green light for someone behind his PC and vice verse.

The second someone does everything right in EVE and still loses some territory because of what happened in the console FPS there is going to be bitching to high heaven. If the FPS has any real consequences then players of the main game are going to be annoyed at things outside of their control influencing the game. And adding this in years after the fact rather than at launch is a great way to piss off the existing player base.

Good thing some of us are in uberguilds that play many genres and have reasonable communication across the community. 

[sanctuary]

There's over 5000 star systems in Eve of which a fuck load are 0.0. Thats alot of systems for sov to be influenced by DUST. Sure not every system is contestable at any given moment but just yesterday there were 20 systems that changed sov. How practical is it that every sov change in 0.0 or FW be dependant in some way on DUST players?

Still I like the idea of an FPS in the EVE universe having some impact on EVE. I think it fits with CCP's single shard vision.

[TripleDES]

Hrm. I don't think it's a good idea to have a separate platform product with the potential of a multiple of amount of players (compared to EVE) to influence the same goddamn universe.

[Jayce]

Don't be stupid, air power doesn't dominate modern warfare because we're concerned with things like collateral damage and civilian casualties.  In a game, no one gives a fuck about that.  Nuke everything, rinse, repeat.

Remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki?  That's what air power means when you stop caring about anything but winning.

How's the military genius life treating you?

He's right, air power is incapable (IRL) of taking land, by its intrinsic nature.  Do you think that Enola Gay turned around, landed and accepted Japan's surrender?  Ever hear of the Battle of Britain?  The reason has nothing to do with avoiding or not avoiding collateral damage.

Of course whether this will play out the same in Eve is questionable.

[patience]

This is why I don't see DUST as an actual MMO since so many recent FPSs claim to be just that and are actually more than anything regular multiplayer experiences: Huxley, Global Agenda, Section 8, etc. No idea where the RTS part comes in. EvE Wars?

Let's step back for a minute. At their most basic nature MMOs are about knowing you in exist in a gamespace that continues to run without you participating at the moment. By merely having Eve and Dust integrated with each other through SOV you already have an FPS game that is clearly more like an MMO than these other games which weren't even as ambitious as Planetside.

I was really excited about seeing what CCP was going to do with their upcoming social networking site but now I'm even more intrigued at how they are going to implement things.

Don't be stupid, air power doesn't dominate modern warfare because we're concerned with things like collateral damage and civilian casualties.  In a game, no one gives a fuck about that.  Nuke everything, rinse, repeat.

Remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki?  That's what air power means when you stop caring about anything but winning.

Who's being stupid here? You repeated almost exactly what I said in different words just to try and look smart. Seriously don't talk anymore before the thread gets even more stupid.

[Endie]

This does strike me as of widespread enough interest that the thread should be in the main MMO section.  Shoudn't someone start one there?

After all, this has to be a complete first in gaming: two games in the same persistent universe, each potentially influencing that universe in ways that affect players in the other game?  Sounds potentially awesome.  Or potentially dreadful, of course.  But the fact is that it is extravagant and adventurous and is one of the few real steps in moving the genre forward I've read of in years.

[kildorn]

The idea of your various games in the same IP/timeframe interacting: neat.

The idea of Sov being determined by a separate game from the one you're playing: Terrible.

If it winds up being fair 32v32 type maps, it also completely eliminates the idea of outplanning your opponent. You can bring 500 ships to beat down 50 defending a system or whatnot, but in the end how do you represent that in a way that makes the FPS meaningful, but doesn't completely remove the advantage the 500 fleet brought.

Blarg, every time I think of a situation about this it just screams "dear god NO"

[DLRiley]

If there is a MMO company that is completely 100% NOT CAPABLE OF DEALING WITH LAG it's CCP.  This is going to be a cluster if they bring in twitch.....

That's pretty harsh because although lag is a problem in low sec and with battles involving over 1000 people or when zillions of drones are used,  Eve afaik is still the only game where 100s of people can fight often with minimal lag.

I think this move by ccp is potential genius - it adds a delicious layer of complexity to an already complex game.

this seems to add a delicious layer of fun to a pretty boring game. this is one of the few times i wish i can be bothered to really master console shooters. Wondering if the rts elements is simple, x amount of human players go here type decision making hmmm.

[Malakili]

I can't see this possibly ending well for CCP. 

If they want to make a sci-fi shooter.  Go for it.  Don't fuck with EVE though, its doing well on its own.

[dwindlehop]

What I have grokked of the RTS elements from the limited announcement is that a Dust 514 commander will get to decide which heavy fortifications and armor to bring and where to move them. I wouldn't be surprised if a Dust commander could also issue waypoints and objectives like a Natural Selection commander. I would be very surprised if there was any resource management at all outside of the "Your pod pilot masters have seen fit to send a billion isk for this theater; don't spend it all in one place". So far more of Dawn of War 2 or Halo Wars than Starcraft 2 here.