Hard Knocks - Bengals Training Camp

[Margalis]

I'm a sucker for these sorts of shows.

I find it funny how NFL coaching staffs are full of old obese white guys.

[Merusk]

All anyone's been talking about on the radio is Mike Brown sitting in one of the meetings asking if they can move a defensive end to a tight end. "Because he can run pretty well." 

I don't know enough about football to know WHY this is a stupid ass thing to say, but from the furor it's raised I know it is.   It's also pretty damn illustrative of why the Bengals have sucked for so very, very long.

[Sky]

TE needs hands, not just running. Most guys are on D because they don't have hands.

[WayAbvPar]

It is a perfect example of why the Bengals have been terrible for so long. Mike Brown doesn't know what the fuck he is doing and refuses to get out of the way of those that do.

[Paelos]

TE needs hands, not just running. Most guys are on D because they don't have hands.

I think the biggest issue is that a TE needs to understand how to block and catch. A defensive end would have absolutely no idea how to block anybody, nor would he have the mental skills needed to perform on the offensive side of the ball. Hell, those guys don't even practice together.

[Margalis]

Yeah but the guy can run!

To be fair though in the 4th and Long show about the Cowboys they kept stressing how they wanted a good athlete that could contribute where needed. So the mindset that you can take a guy who is athletic and fit him in someplace may not be that out there, and may have some merit. Though saying that the guy can run and leaving it at that is probably silly.

[Paelos]

The only sport I can think of where there are roles for "utility" players that can fill many roles is probably baseball. Maybe soccer, but they just call them midfielders. Football is just too highly specialized and focused on every person on the field doing their small job perfectly.

[Arnold]

The only sport I can think of where there are roles for "utility" players that can fill many roles is probably baseball. Maybe soccer, but they just call them midfielders. Football is just too highly specialized and focused on every person on the field doing their small job perfectly.

In basketball, some players can play multiple positions.  Guys, like LeBron James and Ron Artest are capable of playing 4 of the 5 positions.  Now they won't play some of those positions for many minutes, but based on what lineup is on the floor they can rotate to various roles.

Of course, the list of people who can play 3 positions is even longer, and when you get to two positions it's huge.  Lots of guys can play small forward/shooting guard or point guard/shooting guard.  Lots of centers log time at power forward, and there are power forwards who are quick enough to play small forward at times.

[Paelos]

I'm not schooled in basketball, but they seem to shift dynamically around a lot on the court. I can see how people could do different things as they all have to cover the whole thing. It doesn't seem to be the same as football and baseball where you are a clearly defined X, and you are never moving outside of this Y space barring a major issue.

Maybe I'm missing something on the game, but it reminds me a bit of hockey in that regard. Wingers that could play center, defense that could move shift over, etc.

[Nebu]

Most guys are on D because they don't have hands.

I'd argue that defensive players are a different breed.  Defense has to think and react while offense need to do what they're told.  My opinion as an ex d-back may be biased here.

I have a couple of friends that played TE in the NFL and the mantra was good blocker first, receiver second.  I'm sure this hasn't changed much as few TE's ever become elite receivers. 

[Cyrrex]

It actually seems to be shifting somewhat in today's pass-happy offenses.  You actually have a handful of pretty good receiving tight ends these days.  The days of being a one dimensional blocking TE may be coming to an end.

[Nebu]

It actually seems to be shifting somewhat in today's pass-happy offenses.  You actually have a handful of pretty good receiving tight ends these days.  The days of being a one dimensional blocking TE may be coming to an end.

I agree to a point, but still contend that blocking is primary.  If you want a receiver, run a 3 WR set and have three guys on the field with 4.3 speed and a 36" vertical leap.   

[Cyrrex]

Sorry, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was going to be a pass-first deal, only that it is trending in that direction.  TEs need to be blockers.

[Trippy]

Most guys are on D because they don't have hands.

I'd argue that defensive players are a different breed.  Defense has to think and react while offense need to do what they're told.  My opinion as an ex d-back may be biased here.

That has been the stereotype of cornerbacks, though (not the D as a whole). I.e. wannabe receivers without good enough pass catching skiils. Strong safeties are a different story (they just like hitting people) and free safeties have more of that D mentality (aka "the last line of defense"). And of course there are well-known exceptions to the CB stereotype like Rod and Charles Woodson and Deion Sanders who just prefer/preferred to play D.

[Arnold]

I'm not schooled in basketball, but they seem to shift dynamically around a lot on the court. I can see how people could do different things as they all have to cover the whole thing. It doesn't seem to be the same as football and baseball where you are a clearly defined X, and you are never moving outside of this Y space barring a major issue.

Maybe I'm missing something on the game, but it reminds me a bit of hockey in that regard. Wingers that could play center, defense that could move shift over, etc.

A lot of what defines a player and their position is their ability to defend against the opposing team.  In the NBA, man on man defense is used most of the time (zone defense used to be illegal!).

[Cyrrex]

The better explanation, in my opinion, is that in sports like basketball, soccer and baseball (albeit to somewhat varying degrees) don't have as great a distinction in terms of the skills required to played them.  If, for example, you are an amazing dribbler, shooter and passer, are quick and have a good leaping ability...those skills will help you in the sport of basketball regardless of the position you play.  You can't usually generalize the skills of a football player in the same way.