Cataclysm

[Paelos]

Let me put it this way. They MIGHT redesign the old shit. However, there has to be a new world introduced. It doesn't even have to be huge. To do anything less is simply lazy and will divide the player base.

Example: TBC - new fucking island, Wrath - new fucking island, Cataclysm - new zones on the same...island...with stuff...and goblins...yeah.

[WindupAtheist]

The problem is, there IS always a bigger threat which makes the Horde vs. Alliance slapfight look completely retarded.

God, I'm so fucking sick of even hearing this. Fuck whatever stupid raid boss (that I'll never see) who's totally going to come out of his instance and destroy the world if 25 poopsocks don't heroically farm him to death first. Fuck that shit right in the ear. I'm tired of the Warchief in Warcraft being some fucking fruitloop who hates war.

Give me some war, give me some new battlegrounds and Wintergrasp type shit to fight over, and let me kill the fucking Horde. I don't care if they stroke the PVE players with a bunch of "Foozle the Lootbag is totally going to take over the universe!" nonsense, because that's what half the game is about. But quit fagging up my half with scene after scene of Thrall and Jaina blowing kisses at each other while everyone learns to just get along.

[Falwell]

God damnit WUA we're trying to have a content slap / hair pulling / earring yanking fight here. Lore nerd gayery goes over there ---->

I'll just go back to my original point. WoW players deserve better. I'm not part of that community anymore, but Blizzard can do better than drive people back through "classic" content on expansion #3. Changing the old world is a good thing, but it sure as hell shouldn't be the core tenet of a retail expansion.

[Paelos]

WUA's gonna fag up everything over lore. He's got NOVELS. 

[Fordel]

I think a lot of the "RAWR WAR" stuff will end up being like the PvE quests at the east end of Ashenvale, those lumber related ones and etc.



There are also tons of unused zones they could use for the expansion, not counting anything they rebuild. Just look at the map and all the little 'sections' we can't access currently.

[Falwell]

WUA's gonna fag up everything over lore. He's got NOVELS. 

Oh hell, novels? Alright everyone, fall back and we'll reassess the situation once we've regrouped. We're gonna need much heavier artillery to win this fight.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah. Between never-finished shit like Grim Batol and Hyjal, and abandoned zones like Winterspring and Silithus, there's easily room for a healthy expansion's worth of content if they feel like giving it to us. Even if they don't put it on an island. Or they could be lazy about it and just reskin some bullshit.

And since nothing about this approach really tells us anything either way, let's fight about lore instead! And how I shall bathe myself in the tears of "Horde are really the good guys!" fanboys as they come under the yoke of puppy-kickin' Garrosh Hellscream!

Edit: Please, I've never bought a WoW novel in my life. I just keep up with my fellow lorefags enough to know what happens in them.

[Falwell]

And since nothing about this approach really tells us anything either way, let's fight about lore instead! And how I shall bathe myself in the tears of "Horde are really the good guys!" fanboys as they come under the yoke of puppy-kickin' Garrosh Hellscream!

Horde should be eating kids, not doing diplomacy sessions. THERE CAN WE GO NOW?!?!

[Paelos]

Edit: Please, I've never bought a WoW novel in my life. I just keep up with my fellow lorefags enough to know what happens in them.

Borrowing novels from your friends counts there, Bucko.

[WindupAtheist]

I've never even borrowed one. As soon as they come out, lorefags post about them all over this thing called the internet.

[Falwell]

I've never even borrowed one. As soon as they come out, lorefags post about them all over this thing called the internet.

WUA is basically the guy at work that bums smokes off 10 different people every day, yet never buys any so he can still try and claim to be a non smoker.

[Fabricated]

The concept makes sense, because it's a pretty good way to make getting into Grim Batol/Uldum/Hyjal/etc logical instead of borderline stupid like Zul'Aman. ZA was a fun instance and you got to fight a cool lore character but it made no fucking sense in the overall narrative coming at 80. Kinda the same deal with Karazhan.

"WE WOULD LIKE TO INTERRUPT YOUR TOUR THROUGH THE OUTLANDS AND SPACEGOATS TO ASK YOU TO...GO BACK TO AZEROTH AND KILL AN OLD ONE-ARMED TROLL AND CHECK OUT THIS DUSTY TOWER MAYBE."

I just don't believe Blizzard will put the work required into making a major remake of Azeroth work into a semi-coherent narrative.

Unless they make 1-80 possible in the old world, detours into Outlands and Northrend will make no fucking sense whatsoever.

"okay yeah I know you're kinda pissed about that worldwide flood that destroyed your civilization and yeah Deathwing and Azshara and Cthulu summoned Sargeras and they're having a big gay tea party right now but I need you to go through the Dark Portal and fight Illidan since for you to have a reason to go there he needs to not be dead, also after that you need to take a boat to Northrend and kill Arthas too since we really didn't get around to that thanks"

[Paelos]

Retooling the world for flying would be a MASSIVE overhaul. Everything is piece by piece loaded, and when you actually fly around you see that cities aren't even one piece at all. They are several weird sections that make you fall through the floor.

[fuser]

Am I the only one who likes the old world content as is? With the low level mounts now travel is a non issue and heck just chop the exp if leveling is too slow.  There's some really good stories and flushed out content there.

Same as Merusk, I'll be done and finish up with WoW. That's not to say like meth addicts people be there getting a fix as other mmo's flop.

[WindupAtheist]

Unless they make 1-80 possible in the old world, detours into Outlands and Northrend will make no fucking sense whatsoever.

"okay yeah I know you're kinda pissed about that worldwide flood that destroyed your civilization and yeah Deathwing and Azshara and Cthulu summoned Sargeras and they're having a big gay tea party right now but I need you to go through the Dark Portal and fight Illidan since for you to have a reason to go there he needs to not be dead, also after that you need to take a boat to Northrend and kill Arthas too since we really didn't get around to that thanks"

I've worked it all out in chart form.

[Sjofn]

Am I the only one who likes the old world content as is? With the low level mounts now travel is a non issue and heck just chop the exp if leveling is too slow.  There's some really good stories and flushed out content there.

Same as Merusk, I'll be done and finish up with WoW. That's not to say like meth addicts people be there getting a fix as other mmo's flop.

I like the old world fine, but "just chop the XP required to level" only gets you so far. In fact, it gets those really good stories and shit skipped, because nine times out of ten, the quests with the interesting story are also the quests that make you go from one ass end of the continent to the other, and pretty much no one does those after they've done them the first time. If they cut the "fetch me ten boar asses" quests and steamline the Hey There Is A Narrative Here quests so you don't have to run all over god's creation to fed ex your mcguffin to get your lore pellet, then the old world will flow better and you can still have the interesting stories. And you might even have people DO them!

[ezrast]

I'll just go back to my original point. WoW players deserve better. I'm not part of that community anymore, but Blizzard can do better than drive people back through "classic" content on expansion #3. Changing the old world is a good thing, but it sure as hell shouldn't be the core tenet of a retail expansion.

Technically, an old-world retool wouldn't be part of the expansion, it would be part of WoW patch 4.0. Obviously, players without Cataclysm have to be able to access it, or else where will they level up? This means that Cataclysm itself is going to have to reveal new content in order for there to be something for people to pay for.

Unless they make 1-80 possible in the old world, detours into Outlands and Northrend will make no fucking sense whatsoever.

By that logic, going into Outlands - or any of the 1-60 leveling zones - already makes no sense. WUA said it way better though.

[Falwell]

Technically, an old-world retool wouldn't be part of the expansion, it would be part of WoW patch 4.0. Obviously, players without Cataclysm have to be able to access it, or else where will they level up? This means that Cataclysm itself is going to have to reveal new content in order for there to be something for people to pay for.

Come on now, let's not drive this thread into semantics already on page two. We just got a chart so this bastard is here for the long haul.

Anyways, the new shit will probably rely heavily on phasing so it may be a moot point.

[Paelos]

He makes a good point though. If you expansion overhaul current zones, WTF stops ppl from not paying for it? We're going to phase every damn zone now? That's how stupid the business model is with this supposed "design".

IE - It's horseshit.

[ezrast]

Sorry, wasn't trying to nitpick semantics, just pointing out that even if the revamp is the "core tenet" of Cataclysm, that doesn't mean there won't be other stuff to do - sort of like how storming Icecrown and killing Arthas was the core tenet of Wrath, but instead we've mostly been traipsing around forests, collecting swords from young maidens and causing a ruckus among the local gigantic viking populations.

[Paelos]

THE REVAMP ISN'T REAL

[Falwell]

THE REVAMP ISN'T REAL

Jesus, it's caps, he's serious.

Speak my good man, let us in on this nugget of knowledge.

[Paelos]

I just like caps. I gives me a good quote to come back to and shove it in the face of people who were wrong. If I'm wrong it's just silly, but I live on the edge.

Seriously though, I am as hardcore a financial guy as you'll meet while being a gamer, and to remake old shit in the guise of new shit isn't a business plan. It's a salvage plan.

[Ingmar]

If this is true, this is pretty much my dream expansion. Seriously, there is not one single tiny thing I don't like about it.


....except Forsaken Hunters. 

[Sjofn]

So you're lying.

[Musashi]

Seems like there's a lot of potential for new content between the Uldum speculation, and the whole let's go figure out what the fuck this Maelstrom is all about.  I know that most of the info is about the re-doing of old content.  But that doesn't exclude new content at all.  After all, it's Blizzard.  I'm gonna be a Goblin mother fuckers.  Of course, my first reaction to this post was 'fake post is fake.'  So a grain of salt until it's official.

[Simond]

Yeah. Between never-finished shit like Grim Batol and Hyjal, and abandoned zones like Winterspring and Silithus, there's easily room for a healthy expansion's worth of content if they feel like giving it to us.

Well, bearing in mind that Hyjal and Uldum were explicitly mentioned as "Hey guys remember these zones that we never added?", plus Grim Batol is Deathwing's crib it's a pretty sure bet. Let alone whatever they're going to do to existing zones (Durotar is gone, Barrens split into two zones with a fucking volcano erupting in the middle, 1K Needles flooding and turning into a thousand islands in the ocean, etc etc).

And since nothing about this approach really tells us anything either way, let's fight about lore instead! And how I shall bathe myself in the tears of "Horde are really the good guys!" fanboys as they come under the yoke of puppy-kickin' Garrosh Hellscream!

The way they need to frame that to win over the "But I'm on Thrall's side" people is something along the lines of "Well, we tried over and over and over again to work with the Alliance and they are simply unwilling to side with 'savages', especially since King Wrynn reappeared. So they wanna pick a fight? They're gonna get one. FOR THE HORDE!"

Plus the Forsaken and blood elves should be really, really fucking pissed off with what happens with Gilnean worgen.

[Merusk]

And since nothing about this approach really tells us anything either way, let's fight about lore instead! And how I shall bathe myself in the tears of "Horde are really the good guys!" fanboys as they come under the yoke of puppy-kickin' Garrosh Hellscream!

The way they need to frame that to win over the "But I'm on Thrall's side" people is something along the lines of "Well, we tried over and over and over again to work with the Alliance and they are simply unwilling to side with 'savages', especially since King Wrynn reappeared. So they wanna pick a fight? They're gonna get one. FOR THE HORDE!"

Plus the Forsaken and blood elves should be really, really fucking pissed off with what happens with Gilnean worgen.

It will be that paragraph with a side of "And those fuckers killed Cairne" if this is all true.  Scheming fucking Hellscreams.

The Elves I can see, the Forsaken no so much.  I mean they ARE dead and never really tried to join the Alliance IIRC. Sylvanis just kind of flipped everyone the bird and walked off initially.

[Simond]

The Alliance was originally called the Alliance of Lordaeron. Guess which country most of the Forsaken used to be part of?
"So, wait. Let me get this straight: we get cursed by the Lich King - after saving your pitiful arses in the second war, I might add - and you lot effectively declare war on us for even existing. Genn Greymane and his merry band of leghumpers get cursed by a third-rate archmage after turning their back on the Alliance and you turn around and welcome them with open arms? Fuck. That. Shit. Putress was right all along. Now where did I put those barrels of Blight again?"

[Lakov_Sanite]

All of this plus the faction transfer service coming actually makes me think the tauren might split from the horde.

[Jayce]

Initially I bought it, but now I'm not so sure.  Also I was wondering what they would have done with Nazjatar and the Maelstrom and why it wouldn't be included.  It seems like a ridiculous oversight not to include one of the two main zones people are looking forward to - the Emerald Dream or the Maelstrom.

But if they change up the old world, make leveling easier, retool Azeroth to allow flying mounts, include the new class combos, but also add the Maelstrom, Undermine and a few other bits like the Tomb of Sargeras for people that have the expansion, that might make sense.  Azshara as the big end boss would be a big enough payoff, maybe with Deathwing as a speedbump.   And some new dungeons in Nazjatar.

TLDR version I think the leaks might be mostly on target but I bet there's more, unless Blizzard has totally lost their marbles.

[Paelos]

I find it hard to believe Blizzard wouldn't include a new continent underneath the Maelstrom. Also, if they add goblins they should add the isle of Kazan as Undermine is there.

[Fabricated]

I can't imagine the entire world getting a flying mount redesign since that would take more effort than making an entirely new continent.

Flooding some zones and an old world retune would take more effort than I see Blizz putting into anything.

[jpark]

Flooding some zones and an old world retune would take more effort than I see Blizz putting into anything.

Interesting.  My friend argues that WoW is on cash cow status and whatever Blizzard is focused on it, it is no longer WoW.

[bhodi]

The fact that their "A" team programmers, designers, and art team have moved onto other projects after 5 years is a no-brainer. That doesn't mean that "B" team can't come up with new and interesting and cool stuff.