Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 29, 2025, 12:13:00 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: I has Windows 7 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14 Go Down Print
Author Topic: I has Windows 7  (Read 127942 times)
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


on: August 07, 2009, 04:01:30 PM

As F13's official Microsoft shill-mole, I got my greedy hands on the final release of Windows 7 yesterday, thanks to the magic of MSDN subscriptions.  I've been playing with the release candidate as a virtual machine for a few months, but since it has an expiration date, I wasn't inclined to install it for reals.

Well it's installed for reals now, so I'm coming to shill tell you all that Microsoft has finally gotten around to joining us in the 21st century.

Starting with the least-relevant but most-cool in my opinion is the fact that someone at Microsoft has been going crazy on acid.  Stodgy wallpapers are gone, replaced with things like this as default desktops:


That's almost tame compared to some of the bizarre, weird crap that you can put on your desktop.  And, unlike Google, Microsoft actually paid the artists to do this, which is a nice gesture.

The new taskbar is the big deal for the user interface.  Anyone who's read anything about 7 will have seen this bit already, but it's worth mentioning.  They merged the quick-launch portion on the taskbar with the program buttons, making it into something like the dock on macintoshes, but better.  In the screenshot above, I only have Firefox and an explorer window running, which is why those two icons are lit.  The ones that aren't lit can be run by clicking on them, just like the old quick launch icons, and any program that is running will appear on the taskbar, just like the old program buttons.  So instead of using the start menu at all, I just plopped my commonly-used programs down on the taskbar and run them right from it. 

So far, that's identical to how a mac's dock works.  But where it gets aweomser is in the execution.  A mac's dock offers no particular feedback.  You'll see a blue dot under a program if it's running (or an arrow in pre-Leopard OS X), and the icon will bounce if the program needs attention, but that's the extent of it.  Actual useful stuff is in the new taskbar, like the controls for media player:


(The fact that one of the demo songs that comes with the OS is named 'Ninja Tuna' is pretty sweet, too.)  Both screenshots show that when you mouse over a running program, you get a popup showing the window.  Or windows, if you have multiple windows from the same program.  And when you click on the popup, that window is brought to the foreground.  But if you just mouse over the popup, something else happens:


The other windows all turn transparent to let you see the full-size window without bringing it to the foreground.  In a similar vein, if you grab a window's title bar and shake the mouse around, the rest of the windows all flee the screen to let you get at your desktop.  [PROTIP: Shake the window again to get the other windows back.]  It's more useful for people who stash all their crap on their desktops than people like me who file their crap away, but still neat.  You can also quickly resize windows by dragging them to the sides of your screen.  Dragging to the top will maximize a window.  Dragging to the left or right will make the window take that half of your screen.  Pull the window away from the edge and it resumes its former size.

Mechanicswise, there's not a whole lot to say about the OS.  It's Vista.  They changed the security settings to let users have a less-draconian security policy without turning it all the way off, but I never minded the UAC security, so not really a factor in my case.  The performance also seems improved over Vista, with things popping up faster than they used to and generally snappier behavior in the UI.  The newest nVidia drivers let 7 steal processor time on the graphics card to improve its own performance when the GPU isn't busy, which is a sweet enough idea that Apple's doing the same for Snow Leopard.  I imagine that ATI is working out similar drivers, but since I don't own one of their cards, I didn't care enough to check.

<rant>One weird note about 7 is that it doesn't come with a mail program, messenger program, photo-editor, video editor, and a few of the other things that came bundled with Vista.  Instead, you get a link to 'Go online to get Windows Live Essentials', which will let you download the programs.  They're free, but it's still vaguely annoying.  Fuck you, EU, right in your stupid asses.  Every OS in the planet is bundled with web browsers, e-mail readers, messengers, and everything else they can shoehorn in, and Windows is the only one that gets its shit jumped over it, so now I have to go through extra retarded steps just to get what should've come on the install disk.  Apple tries to sneak Safari onto computers like spyware and nobody calls them on it, but Microsoft has to cripple their OS without a web browser because of these idiots?  Microsoft was plenty douchey back in the days of the first browser war, but lately they've been less underhanded than even Google about things.</rant>

Anyhow, so far everything's pretty much gravy for the new OS.  No hitches, crashes, or weird behavior.  I'm reinstalling my games tonight on my home computer, and if anything's going to fuck up, it's gonna be them.  But since they were running fine on Vista, they shouldn't have any hassles on 7.  Here's hopin'.
Ozzu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 666


Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 04:14:50 PM

I've been using the RTM build for a few days now. I dig it. It's not a whole lot different than RC1 was, but RC1 was already pretty damn good.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 05:30:14 PM

(The fact that one of the demo songs that comes with the OS is named 'Ninja Tuna' is pretty sweet, too.)

If you have never listened to Mr. Scruff you should probably check him out, I'd recommend Keep it Unreal as the best album to listen to. I'm yet to meet anyone who hates him.

On a related note, thanks for the write up, this is all looking very nice.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Viin
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6159


Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 10:20:19 PM

Thanks for the tips on shaking the window, etc - had no clue.

Where did you find the link for Windows Live Essentials? Been trying to find that for the RC1 build...

- Viin
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 10:51:19 PM

I just bought a new cheapo laptop, but I guess I'll be getting this for free... err.. what.. next month? Maybe because I'm already at the end of Vista's lifecycle, I don't know much, but I don't think it's all that bad either. I look forward to upgrading though.

I don't think MS as a whole is all that bad..they've got a lot of good software (I'm primarily a Mac user btw.. I already liked Office for Mac. Except Windows has One Note, and Mac doesn't for some reason. Which sucks).. It's nice to have solutions in almost every category... Even better when they know they have to compete, like they do now. [edit] Err yeah, that's bullshit about not being able to bundle even an email prog
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 10:56:11 PM by stray »
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 11:43:22 PM

October 22 is launch day.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 11:47:53 PM

Err yeah, that's bullshit about not being able to bundle even an email prog

Which one doesn't have an email prog?
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 11:49:47 PM

Oh he was saying that 7 isn't bundled with email or msn messenger? You have to download the Live Essential pack.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 11:52:48 PM

7 isn't bundled with Outlook Express or some variant? How weird.

Not that anyone should use it anyway. Gmail/Wave or Thunderbird.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 11:56:32 PM

The consumer version hasn't been packaged yet. I.e. the "RTM" version people are talking about isn't necessarily the same as what you will get when you buy the box on October 22.
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 12:01:00 AM

7 isn't bundled with Outlook Express or some variant? How weird.

Not that anyone should use it anyway. Gmail/Wave or Thunderbird.

Yeah, I think Live Mail (or the older Windows mail bundled on Vista) is Outlook Express. They're not replaced by those apps though if you're using Live services and/or Hotmail.

Anyhow, the cockblocking is unnecessary. Every OS comes with this stuff. I don't particularly mind downloading, but it's bound to prevent some people adopting some of their apps (I think this is more the case with the Live video and photo gallery apps.. People who use MSN messenger will get it anyways because it's already popular).


edit: err i'm confused now. was this something sparked on by the EU? i'm reading articles that are saying it's a Microsoft move. They just want to keep the Live branding seperate from the core OS.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 12:09:05 AM by stray »
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 12:14:07 AM

I don't know how Microsoft makes money off any of those apps anyway (except MSN which has ads).
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 12:54:42 AM

I don't know either, but I dig the generosity. The best feature of Live is the 25gb of free storage (not counting the mailbox).
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 03:12:04 AM

Thanks for the tips on shaking the window, etc - had no clue.

Where did you find the link for Windows Live Essentials? Been trying to find that for the RC1 build...

Just pop the start menu up and type 'mail' in the search box.  The link will appear.  The actual location is Control Panel > Getting Started > Go online to get Windows Live Essentials, but lots quicker to just use the search function.

I Heart search function in Vista and 7.

edit: err i'm confused now. was this something sparked on by the EU? i'm reading articles that are saying it's a Microsoft move. They just want to keep the Live branding seperate from the core OS.

It's an assumption on my part with no real sources inside the company to offer concrete proof, but the fact that the EU sues Microsoft every time they have anything included with the OS is making me feel fairly confident that this 'branding move' is mainly to preemptively prevent the EU's douchery.

And the new Live Mail is vastly better than the shit that was Outlook Express.  Spam filters with free updates, mail indexing integrated with the OS's search functions, contacts, calendar, RSS feeds, all sync to the OS, all sync online with Hotmail.  I think they can be made to sync with Google's stuff, but'm not 100% on that.  I have exchange on my office server and sync from there to my phone, so never needed to park my stuff on websites to access it on the net.

Microsoft has really gotten on the ball these last few years.  Someone must have installed phones in their offices or something, because now their departments actually seem to be talking to each other.  I remember back in the early XP years, you'd see some new project come flopping onto land, gasping and wheezing, with no support, dubious utility, and no connection to any other project.  Then they'd name it something like Microsoft ReadyStove(tm), and its entire purpose was to play WMA files on your oven, and then nobody would ever hear about it again.  Now they have things that mesh well and make sense, like your desktops backing up nightly to a home server, which also streams your audio and video files to your xbox on demand and sets up remote access to your files over the net.

Just check this shit out:



Windows 7 will stream your media collection over the internet to you.  The Microsoft of XP days would have slit its own throat rather than let anyone stream anything; they wanted ten layers of DRM everywhere.  Someone finally got a clue, and I'm glad they did.
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 04:04:02 AM

Yeah, I like the syncing. My only complaint (at least in Vista) is that the Calendar or Contacts aren't stand-alone apps, like they are with the Vista Calendar/Contacts. I have to open Live mail to interact with them.. Plus, I can't associate *.ics (iCalendar) file types with anything.

I can somewhat believe they may be wanting to seperate the Live branding though. There may come at a time when Windows (as it is now) is more irrelevant, but Live becomes an internet platform.
Numtini
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7675


Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 07:56:39 AM

Quote
I Heart search function in Vista and 7.

I think I must be missing something as I find the search function next to useless in Win 7. It's fine for home use, but on a larger network with thousands of files? Narrowing down something when one of my users has lost something on a server is hopeless. And it used to be quite simple. Probably my only gripe about the OS.

As to the lack of a mail program, I think the idea is you should be using hotmail or whatever they call it now so they can spam you with ads. Or some other web based service and honestly I think that's a far better solution.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9029

inflicts shingles.


Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 09:27:19 AM

Does the new Mail from Live Essentials support IMAP? Cuz that's the only reason I should get any of the stuff. Windows Search can be useful if you have a ton of files that need indexing, otherwise I suspect that it would just be a resource hog.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 11:14:10 AM

Yeah, there's IMAP support.
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 11:55:16 AM

I Heart search function in Vista and 7.

It seems to work when I know the file name, but I have only used it to open IE: "iexplore.exe" opens it.  Interestingly, the fact that I am not able to properly search for files on my laptop (XP SP2) is one reason I am reading up on PowerShell, so I can write my own.  For that reason plus the opaqueness of the W7 search, I am dubious of it.

I do not understand why people are complaining about not having software bundled into Windows.  Just a few years ago, people were moaning and rolling their eyes about all the shit packed into Windows that they had to deinstall.  Assholes.  Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 05:09:23 PM

The crap I never like getting bundled is demos of Norton or some tacky looking media player (that also wants me to pay $30 bucks for a better version). I don't mind full featured software, especially if it's from the people who made the operating system. It all integrates well, and does what I want. Only WMP is a bit worthless, but it becomes useful once I install some codecs. After that, I don't even need an alternative player. As for the Live stuff, I'll happily use it. Maybe it's not as good as Apple's bundled apps, but it's about the same experience.. Except in one case, it's much better: It's free. iLife upgrades come at a cost, as does MobileMe. While all of the same functionality is free on Windows. I can't complain.
fuser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1572


Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 07:21:35 PM

Only WMP is a bit worthless, but it becomes useful once I install some codecs. After that, I don't even need an alternative player.

Even better, 7 includes DivX/Xvid codecs now (I cannot remember if mkv is in).
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9029

inflicts shingles.


Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 08:05:39 PM

Any windows edition that came with 'media center', either XP Media Center or Vista Ultimate  came with DVD codecs. Same thing with Windows 7. Its just that right now we're all using RC which is the 'ultimate' version. The one  that'll be on sale will come in various flavors, and I bet only the 'ultimate' will have the DVD codecs.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
fuser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1572


Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 08:19:50 PM

Any windows edition that came with 'media center', either XP Media Center or Vista Ultimate  came with DVD codecs. Same thing with Windows 7. Its just that right now we're all using RC which is the 'ultimate' version. The one  that'll be on sale will come in various flavors, and I bet only the 'ultimate' will have the DVD codecs.

Nope, Media Center 2005 had no support for MPEG-2 you still had to purchase an nvidia/powerdvd based product to get codec support. Vista editions came with MPEG-2 but you could load others for better encode/decode quality/features, 7 has seemed to add divx/xvid to base codecs added to the OS.

With that said yep the ultimate edition is the only thing tested on but I wouldn't doubt its across the board in WMP12.
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10633


WWW
Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 10:51:26 PM

Only WMP is a bit worthless, but it becomes useful once I install some codecs. After that, I don't even need an alternative player.

Even better, 7 includes DivX/Xvid codecs now (I cannot remember if mkv is in).

.mkv is not in RC1, don't know if they added it to RTM or not. I just spent 2 minutes and got VLC for playing the .mkv I was wanting to watch.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
ezrast
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2125


WWW
Reply #24 on: August 09, 2009, 12:25:11 AM

Not really apropos to anything, but does someone want to explain the appeal of docks to me? Not relating (non-transient) windows to taskbar buttons 1:1 just doesn't feel right.
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #25 on: August 09, 2009, 05:31:56 AM

(The release version doesn't have native .mkv support, so still need to grab that codec for your anime piracy needs.)

You can set 7's taskbar to 1:1 window relationships, if that's what you want.  The appeal of clustering up all of an application's windows to a single button is just one of clutter-reduction.  My father's a perfect example, being one of those people who opens a dozen different browser windows and never closes the damn things.  His desktop was always covered in icons, which in turn were covered up under all the windows, while the application buttons on his taskbar would all be scrunched up and tiny because he was running six to eight programs at the same time.

In XP, I started most programs off the desktop.  Wading into the start menu was obnoxious, and fuck that quick launch thing on the taskbar; it took up space I needed for the buttons of the programs I was running.

In Vista, I moved most of my programs to the start menu.  Being able to hit the windows key, type in a couple letters of the program name, and hit enter, was damn faster than wandering through the menus to find it.  I still mostly ignored the quick launch, for the same reason: If I filled up the quick launch area with all of my commonly-used programs, the space left over for running programs would be tight.

In 7, I just dumped all of my programs onto the taskbar.  Nothing's left on my desktop but the recycle bin (and Fallout 3, but that's just because the disembodied head of Vault-boy goes well with the weird wallpaper.)  I no longer need to be concerned with the quick launch icons taking up the space for running programs, because they ARE the space for the running programs.  Having the icon up on the bar at all times lets me fire up a program even faster than using my keyboard under Vista.  I can have an easy thirty programs on the taskbar now, and considering that I use less than ten for my most common daily tasks, it's more than ample.

My dad's still a god-awful cluttery packrat with 7.  I'm still working to convince him to stop dumping all his files and program icons on the desktop.  I'm hopeful that he'll start catching on in the near future to how much all of the file and program organization features can speed things up, but I only just started getting him regularly using Vista's search to find his files a couple months ago, so it may take a while.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #26 on: August 09, 2009, 11:20:16 AM

Not really apropos to anything, but does someone want to explain the appeal of docks to me? Not relating (non-transient) windows to taskbar buttons 1:1 just doesn't feel right.
I haven't used Windows 7 yet but the Mac OS X Dock is fucking piece of the shit and is one of the canonical examples of how Apple's UI design went into the crapper when Steve Jobs returned.

The Windows XP taskbar has major issues too. Not having a built in feature to rearrange the order of the windows is one of the stupidest design decisions in UI history. Fortunately there's a piece of freeware, TaskArrange, that fixes that problem. That plus Microsoft's freeware Tweak UI power toy that forces windows from the same app to always be grouped together makes the taskbar very functional.

The OS X Dock however, tries to do too many things at once and as such sucks at everything. I'm especially amused at the magnification feature of the Dock (which you can easily turn off) and watching even experienced Mac users who inexplicably still have it turned on or are demoing a Mac that's not theirs to somebody have to slow down their mouse movements to actually use the thing.

Top Ten Nine Reasons the Apple Dock Still Sucks (article is somewhat out-of-date as the Dock has evolved more since he lasted updated it)

Edit: and
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 01:20:08 PM by Trippy »
Kitsune
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2406


Reply #27 on: August 09, 2009, 01:13:00 PM

I'm not unhappy with the dock on my mac laptop.  That said, my mac isn't my primary computer, so it gets by with lighter use and less demand than my desktops.  In my dock, I added the application, document, and download folders, which thankfully have unique icons, unlike the examples on that guy's webpage.  I agree with him that it's clunky on occasion, but not to the extent that I've ever felt compelled to replace it.

Now, what DO annoy me are the mac users that I do IT work for.  Half of them will add seemingly every icon on their computer to their dock, making it this huge bar of teeeeeeeensy icons across their screen that's a bitch to find anything on.  And not a one of them actually add their application folder to the dock, so finding a program not on the dock (such as, I dunno, the network tool in their utility folder that I need to fix their stupid computer) forces me to wade through the Finder.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #28 on: August 09, 2009, 01:26:01 PM

In my dock, I added the application, document, and download folders, which thankfully have unique icons, unlike the examples on that guy's webpage.
Leopard has changed this so those icons are now "thumbnails" so it's no longer obvious which is the document folder and which is the download folder.
TripleDES
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1086


WWW
Reply #29 on: August 09, 2009, 01:55:09 PM

I'm eligible for a copy via the beta. I've a confirmation on a boxed copy, so I have to wait for it.  Ohhhhh, I see.

EVE (inactive): Deakin Frost -- APB (fukken dead): Kayleigh (on Patriot).
Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737

the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #30 on: August 09, 2009, 01:59:53 PM

is there any genuine reason why there is no full-screen maximize button on Macs?  The green button seems to only maximize to what it wants.  Annoyance!
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #31 on: August 09, 2009, 02:02:10 PM

Yeah, I don't like the dock much either. That said, I don't think the UI necessarily went down the crapper once Jobs returned. System 7 was good for it's time, but I wouldn't be particularly pleased with it now. Then again, the Dock is definitely a NeXT carryover feature. Hmm...

I use Quicksilver for launching (btw, what's the best equivalent on Windows?), but searching isn't exactly ideal for everyone (intuitive search or not).
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #32 on: August 09, 2009, 02:14:29 PM

is there any genuine reason why there is no full-screen maximize button on Macs? 
No.

Quote
The green button seems to only maximize to what it wants.  Annoyance!
Yes that's fucked up.
ezrast
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2125


WWW
Reply #33 on: August 09, 2009, 03:36:34 PM

Being able to hit the windows key, type in a couple letters of the program name, and hit enter, was damn faster than wandering through the menus to find it.
Holy fuck, it never even occurred to me to think that that search box wasn't just some dumb file search or something. I'm pretty sure you just converted me away from the classic start menu.

Combining an application's windows into one taskbar button fills me with rage, though - for me, knowing the position of an icon on the bar is more important than being able to read its text. Same reason new Firefox tabs always have to be placed at the end of the bar, not next to the current tab. I guess this is less universal than I thought.
Big Gulp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3275


Reply #34 on: August 09, 2009, 03:47:59 PM

Combining an application's windows into one taskbar button fills me with rage, though - for me, knowing the position of an icon on the bar is more important than being able to read its text. Same reason new Firefox tabs always have to be placed at the end of the bar, not next to the current tab. I guess this is less universal than I thought.

You can change all that.  Personally, I set mine to "combine when taskbar is full" instead of just having it always combine.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: I has Windows 7  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC