Holmes- because "latent" homoeroticism just isn't good enough anymore.

[Oban]

I thought this was a thread about Hannity & Colmes and/or that Hannity had finally come out of the closet.

[Big Gulp]

Didn't Robert Downey Jr. already make that movie?

[apocrypha]

So, if someone wants to make a film with some suggestions that Sherlock Holmes had sexual feelings for Watson, well, so what? Why does it affect you? Why does it bother you? If you don't want to watch it, then don't.

Are you suggesting they should be prevented from making such a film? No, that would be ridiculous. There are 100's of films released every year that I have absolutely no interest in seeing and I have access to a fantastic plethora of ways of finding out what films I *might* be interested in. It's rare that I find myself watching a film that I utterly hate and when I do I can always walk out of the cinema or turn the DVD off.

But to rant about every one of the romcoms or kids TV tie-ins or crappy vehicles for talentless Hollywood "actors" would be stupid and pointless, unless I had some kind of axe to grind, or prejudice to air. Just saying.

[Brogarn]

So, if someone wants to make a film with some suggestions that Sherlock Holmes had sexual feelings for Watson, well, so what? Why does it affect you? Why does it bother you? If you don't want to watch it, then don't.

For me, its because I did want to watch a Robert Downey Jr flick directed by Guy Ritchie. Now, if RDJ wasn't kidding and was really alluding to some sort of homosexual underpinnings in the relationship between him and Watson, its suddenly something I'm not as excited to see. So, ya, there's an emotional reaction there. I was excited. Now I'm disappointed. That's how it affects me.

[schild]

So, if someone wants to make a film with some suggestions that Sherlock Holmes had sexual feelings for Watson, well, so what? Why does it affect you? Why does it bother you? If you don't want to watch it, then don't.

For me, its because I did want to watch a Robert Downey Jr flick directed by Guy Ritchie. Now, if RDJ wasn't kidding and was really alluding to some sort of homosexual underpinnings in the relationship between him and Watson, its suddenly something I'm not as excited to see. So, ya, there's an emotional reaction there. I was excited. Now I'm disappointed. That's how it affects me.

Try being less of a pussy, maybe?

[Brogarn]

Try being less of a pussy, maybe?

Uh. What?

[schild]

You are suddenly emotionally involved because there might be some gay underpinnings between Watson and Holmes. That's absolutely ridiculous.

It would seem to me that you're exactly the type of pussy-footed mass-marketed consumer that Fox is trying to make question their need to see a movie that will kickass.

[Brogarn]

You are suddenly emotionally involved because there might be some gay underpinnings between Watson and Holmes. That's absolutely ridiculous.

It would seem to me that you're exactly the type of pussy-footed mass-marketed consumer that Fox is trying to make question their need to see a movie that will kickass.

Action flick involving RDJ and Guy Ritchie and Sherlock Holmes sounded like a bad ass movie that I got a bit excited about. Watching a homosexual relationship on any level develop on screen between Holmes and Watson gives me almost the opposite reaction. Mixing the two makes me overall less interested in seeing it. Those are all emotional reactions. These aren't violent emotional reactions that have me all raged out or anything. They're just "Yay" followed by "Oh... ehh... maybe not so much". Still... technically emotional reactions. But not in the extreme that you're trying to make them.

If you need further explanation, or would like to wrongly accuse me of any sort of anti-homosexual views or opinions, please feel free to ask me my stance on these issues and I'll gladly lay them out for you so that you can make more informed judgments of my character instead of completely uninformed accusations. You haven't asked, so you don't know. I also imagine you're not really interested, but I figured I'd throw the offer out there anyways.

[schild]

I'm not really interested in your views or a semantic argument about emotive response.

But even for a moment, if you think Guy Ritchie - no matter what is (or in this case ISN'T) said in the press - will make a movie with some deeper meaning, you're crazy. That's not the guys bread and butter and he learned that the hard way.

The fact this (once again, probably fake) press actually made an impression on you in any way, like I said, makes you exactly the type of person Fox is targeting.

[dusematic]

Most straight guys DON'T want to watch Brokeback Sherlock.  That said, I think it's obvious this movie won't be that.  There will probably be some subtle nods/jokes towards that effect at best.  Straight dudes NOT being pumped about homosexual love affairs unfolding on the silver screen is normal and widespread.  NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

[Khaldun]

Let me put it this way. If you're into looking for subtle homoerotic nods, there's a FUCKLOAD of buddy movies that have a scene or two that can plausibly be read that way. There's a few action flicks that hetero guys who don't want the queer all over them seem to have watched without a clue that they had screaming manjuice oozing from every corner (cf. 300). Or they had a clue and didn't care.

So now we're talking about a reinterpretation of a famous pop culture icon in which he is going to be something he absolutely was not: an action hero with fistfights and explosions galore around him. Ok by me, mind you. And, by the way, there's some provocative let's-get-some-press mindfuckery coming out from RDJ suggesting that maybe they'll do some winking about an aspect of the Holmes stories which savvy people have been winking about for OH SEVENTY YEARS OR SO.

And we get some people saying, "Hey, don't mess with my Holmes stories". Not about the fistfights and explosions, but about the winking, which is more consistent with the original stories by a magnitude more than the action-hero stuff. And we get people saying, "Wow, now I'm less interested, because there will be winking about teh gay, I'll just go watch some cop buddy movies and Star Trek and lots of other stuff where there is no winking about teh gay in the adventures of manly men working in manly ways with each other."

[Lantyssa]

There will be no homosexuality on open display in this movie.  Downey was having fun with words.  They will be some hot women in the movie that either RDJ or Ritchie will bang.  Maybe repeatedly.  That's the only sex there will be.

Yeesh.

[schild]

There will be no homosexuality on open display in this movie.  Downey was having fun with words.  They will be some hot women in the movie that either RDJ or Ritchie will bang.  Maybe repeatedly.  That's the only sex there will be.

Duh. 

[Ingmar]

And we get some people saying, "Hey, don't mess with my Holmes stories". Not about the fistfights and explosions, but about the winking, which is more consistent with the original stories by a magnitude more than the action-hero stuff. And we get people saying, "Wow, now I'm less interested, because there will be winking about teh gay, I'll just go watch some cop buddy movies and Star Trek and lots of other stuff where there is no winking about teh gay in the adventures of manly men working in manly ways with each other."

This.

Seriously, I thought the "Holmes sure doesn't seem to care much for the ladies" thing was pretty much mainstream 'duh' at this point.

[Samwise]

So now we're talking about a reinterpretation of a famous pop culture icon in which he is going to be something he absolutely was not: an action hero with fistfights and explosions galore around him. Ok by me, mind you. And, by the way, there's some provocative let's-get-some-press mindfuckery coming out from RDJ suggesting that maybe they'll do some winking about an aspect of the Holmes stories which savvy people have been winking about for OH SEVENTY YEARS OR SO.

And we get some people saying, "Hey, don't mess with my Holmes stories". Not about the fistfights and explosions, but about the winking, which is more consistent with the original stories by a magnitude more than the action-hero stuff. And we get people saying, "Wow, now I'm less interested, because there will be winking about teh gay, I'll just go watch some cop buddy movies and Star Trek and lots of other stuff where there is no winking about teh gay in the adventures of manly men working in manly ways with each other."

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Lantyssa]

Duh. 

I wanted it to be perfectly clear in case Khaldun's rant upset their emotional investment in it being a movie about manly men doing manly things with manly implements.

[Paelos]

This thread is once again a reminder that linking to Fox News only leads to retarded conversations.

[Sir T]

Holmes was an obsessive freak. He wanted to be the Ultimate Consulting detective and pored everything into it. When Watson told him once the earth was round he said he would do his best for forget that fact in case it pushed some fact to do with his work out of his head. Anything to  His brother went to a club where nobody talked to one another because it was the only place his razor sharp mind would give him peace. The fact is Sherlock was asexual because anything to do with attraction would have been interfered with what he was obsessed about.

Watson got married in the first series of Novels. That created an awkwardness in the later stories as Watson would have to arrive at Sherlock's at the beginning of a case to write about it, till Doyle finally had him living there again as it was easier, with Sherlock making vague references to Watsons "tragedy." In the time before he "resurrected" Holmes, Doyle gave permission to an author to write a play where Sherlock meets and falls in love with a woman. Doyle didn't seem to care much about it, but the fact he raised no objections at all shows that Sherlock was not overtly gay in his mind. Either way its not an important part of the Holmes character. If your mind wants Holmes in pastels with lavender napkins, its your mind.

To be honest the biggest problem I have with most portrayals of the Holmes-Watson relationship is that Watson has nearly always been portrayed as a complete fool. Watson was NOT a fool. For one thing Holmes would never have stood him if he was, for another he was a Doctor, and Holmes always deferred to Watson in matters of Medicine. Holmes had his craft, Watson had his, and Holmes respected Watson enough in matters of his profession to defer to him.

I'll wait and see about the film. Charlton Heston played Holmes once, and did a pretty good job too if I remember right.

Geek mode off. And please no linking to FOX for gods sake.

[Righ]

Expect Guy Ritchie or the studio to make a statement some time in the next day or too to prevent gay fearing America from condemning the movie based on a Screws of the World misrepresentation of RDj humor.

Horrid typo aside:

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1617599/story.jhtml

[Sjofn]

There will be no homosexuality on open display in this movie.  Downey was having fun with words.  They will be some hot women in the movie that either RDJ or Ritchie will bang.  Maybe repeatedly.  That's the only sex there will be.

Yeesh.

Holmes having a sex scene AT ALL would be wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong. But I betcha most people going "omg teh gay" wouldn't weep about the INTERGRITY OF TEH ORIGINAL if he was humping a lady in it.

[NiX]

Horrid typo aside:

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1617599/story.jhtml

He plays on the undertones most people here agree are present, but there's no brokeback investigating. So all you manly men can rejoice! Hurrah for an unbreakable bond between two men that could be called love, but not real love, cause that's gay.

[Ingmar]

Bromance is the in thing in movies these days after all.

[schild]

Bromance is the in thing in movies these days after all.

So too, apparently, is making Holmes a bareknuckle boxer.

[dusematic]

Horrid typo aside:

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1617599/story.jhtml

He plays on the undertones most people here agree are present, but there's no brokeback investigating. So all you manly men can rejoice! Hurrah for an unbreakable bond between two men that could be called love, but not real love, cause that's gay.

lol

[lamaros]

The fact is Sherlock was asexual because anything to do with attraction would have been interfered with what he was obsessed about.

In the time before he "resurrected" Holmes, Doyle gave permission to an author to write a play where Sherlock meets and falls in love with a woman. Doyle didn't seem to care much about it, but the fact he raised no objections at all shows that Sherlock was not overtly gay in his mind. Either way its not an important part of the Holmes character. If your mind wants Holmes in pastels with lavender napkins, its your mind.

To be honest the biggest problem I have with most portrayals of the Holmes-Watson relationship is that Watson has nearly always been portrayed as a complete fool. Watson was NOT a fool. For one thing Holmes would never have stood him if he was, for another he was a Doctor, and Holmes always deferred to Watson in matters of Medicine. Holmes had his craft, Watson had his, and Holmes respected Watson enough in matters of his profession to defer to him.

Fact? No.

He hated the character and was sick of it all, I wouldn't be surprised if he let someone turn him into an alien or robot either. Doesn't mean that Holmes was heterosexual.

While Watson wasn't a complete fool, he was foolish most of the time.

Watson repeatedly berates Holmes for his drug addictions and other unhealthy habits and Holmes just laughs it off and makes jokes about it. So this "Holmes always deferred to Watson" thing is not at all right. Holmes treated Watson like a pet and looked down on him, as he did everyone.

Watson repeatedly talks of Holmes as never displaying an interest in women (and Watson despairing of it). On the subject of men you don't have much, but it's probably just as reasonable to make suggestions about Holmes being gay as asexual.

[dusematic]

How the hell do so much of you know so much about Sherlock fucking Holmes?  I think I read like two of the stories in high school English.  Jesus.

[Triforcer]

There will be no homosexuality on open display in this movie.  Downey was having fun with words.  They will be some hot women in the movie that either RDJ or Ritchie will bang.  Maybe repeatedly.  That's the only sex there will be.

Yeesh.

Holmes having a sex scene AT ALL would be wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong. But I betcha most people going "omg teh gay" wouldn't weep about the INTERGRITY OF TEH ORIGINAL if he was humping a lady in it.

I would.  Its not him, either way.  Lets make Holmes XTREME!!!  I hope they give a few scenes to his equally XTREME dog, Poochie. 

[Hindenburg]

Man, some of you guys hate fun.

[Sjofn]

[Holmes treated Watson like a pet and looked down on him, as he did everyone.

Maybe, but he FREAKS THE FUCK OUT when Watson is shot in a way I found really surprising at the time, given what a douchebag Holmes is the rest of the time.

[tar]

So too, apparently, is making Holmes a bareknuckle boxer.

I'm pretty sure that Holmes was a boxer in the books. Quick check produces this conversation between Holmes and Watson:

"If I remember rightly, you on one occasion, in the early days of our friendship, defined my limits in a very precise fashion.”

“Yes,” I answered, laughing. “It was a singular document. Philosophy, astronomy, and politics were marked at zero, I remember. Botany variable, geology profound as regards the mud-stains from any region within fifty miles of town, chemistry eccentric, anatomy unsystematic, sensational literature and crime records unique, violin-player, boxer, swordsman, lawyer, and self-poisoner by cocaine and tobacco. Those, I think, were the main points of my analysis.”

So probably not bareknucle, but he was quite a physical character. For those interested in the stories: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1661

[Bunk]

From IMDB:

"To Sherlock Holmes always 'the woman', the attractive Irene Adler appears in the Sherlock Holmes short story, 'A Scandal in Bohemia'. She is widely regarded as the only woman to outwit Holmes, and for that the detective admires her greatly, keeping a photograph of her to remind him of her 'dubious and questionable memory'. However, it is incredibly unlikely that the sleuth felt 'any emotion akin to love' for Irene. She is deceased by the time Watson prints 'A Scandal in Bohemia'. "

Rachel McAdams is playing Irene - most likely your "love interest" of the movie right there.

[Righ]

The canon boxing reference appears to be:

"You never heard me talk of Victor Trevor?" he asked. "He was the only friend I made during the two years I was at college. I was never a very sociable fellow, Watson, always rather fond of moping in my rooms and working out my own little methods of thought, so that I never mixed much with the men of my year. Bar fencing and boxing I had few athletic tastes, and then my line of study was quite distinct from that of the other fellows, so that we had no points of contact at all. Trevor was the only man I knew, and that only through the accident of his bull terrier freezing on to my ankle one morning as I went down to chapel.

From The "Gloria Scott" in Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes.

[gryeyes]

Hmmm there was a pretty strong plot point about the secret homosexual desire between two of the leading male roles in RockNRolla. It kind of lends credence that Ritchie will further explore this with the admittedly queer and asexual Holmes.

[tar]

I'm re-reading the stories myself now. There's another reference to boxing in The Sign of the Four:

"Oh, yes you do, McMurdo," cried Sherlock Holmes, genially. "I don't think you can have forgotten me. Don't you remember the amateur who fought three rounds with you at Alison's rooms on the night of your benefit four years back?"

"Not Mr. Sherlock Holmes!" roared the prize-fighter. "God's truth! how could I have mistook you? If instead o' standin' there so quiet you had just stepped up and given me that cross-hit of yours under the jaw, I'd ha' known you without a question. Ah, you're one that has wasted your gifts, you have! You might have aimed high, if you had joined the fancy."

[NiX]

"...if you had joined the fancy."

Holmes can't be gay. He didn't join the fancy.