Goonswarm and Scamming

[Phildo]

An empire carebear alliance was convinced that they were being given some space in Delve to hang out and blue standings.  When they showed up, what hadn't already been transferred to Jihadswarm agents was annihilated.

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1448

[ 2009.07.24 03:31:45 ] Im Better > we all died
[ 2009.07.24 03:31:52 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > some alliance beca
[ 2009.07.24 03:31:58 ] Im Better > ><
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:02 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > get out of my chanel
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:14 ] darkcrisp > FUCK
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:16 ] darkcrisp > fUCK
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:19 ] darkcrisp > FUCK
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:20 ] Princess Aelmus > Calm down
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:25 ] darkcrisp > FUCKING AMBUSH
[ 2009.07.24 03:32:27 ] Princess Aelmus > dont give them the satisfaction
[ 2009.07.24 03:33:16 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WELL BECA WHAT DO U HAVE TO SAY FOR UR BUDDIES
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:05 ] Marcus Kerensky > Well played Von.
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:08 ] Marcus Kerensky > My hats off to you.
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:14 ] Im Better > FUK THIS
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:20 ] Marcus Kerensky > Thank you for bringing my eve career to an end.
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:26 ] Princess Aelmus > look guys stop giving them the satisfaction of this
[ 2009.07.24 03:34:29 ] Marcus Kerensky > Goon accomplished their goal.
[ 2009.07.24 03:36:19 ] Princess Aelmus > not completely they are probably waiting for our reaction i mean that is the whole goal of there game
[ 2009.07.24 03:36:42 ] ligh nort > dude they got alot
[ 2009.07.24 03:36:50 ] ligh nort > every bpo bpc i had
[ 2009.07.24 03:36:57 ] ligh nort > 28 bil
[ 2009.07.24 03:37:01 ] ligh nort > just from me
[ 2009.07.24 03:37:03 ] NovaGrand > mhm that was the plan
[ 2009.07.24 03:37:12 ] ligh nort > then the stuff that pan had too
[ 2009.07.24 03:37:27 ] Princess Aelmus > well we gotta just move on okay you probs think i am being iratianal
[ 2009.07.24 03:37:32 ] Princess Aelmus > but we gotta hold tight
[ 2009.07.24 03:44:14 ] darkcrisp > bravo von bravo
[ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] Uncle Hybrid > ^_^ Well, back down from a Vexor to a Imicus.
[ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > U FUCKING FAG ASS FUCK I CANT WAIT TILL MY LEGACY WALKS ALL OVER YALLS MUNKEY ASSES
[ 2009.07.24 03:45:04 ] Uncle Hybrid > ...
[ 2009.07.24 03:45:36 ] Pandora's Shadow > this is why i made a fall back recovery plan
[ 2009.07.24 03:45:41 ] Princess Aelmus > haha
[ 2009.07.24 03:46:03 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WHAT THE FUCK IM GONNA YARRRRRRR I SWEAR IT MAN I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE
[ 2009.07.24 03:46:39 ] ligh nort2 > what revenge we totaly got pwned like a bunch of cattle vs wolves
[ 2009.07.24 03:46:50 ] Pandora's Shadow > guess ill keep it to myself then ...
[ 2009.07.24 03:47:05 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WHAT PLAN HOMMIE NOT SECURE HERE

I've gone ahead and bolded what I think are the funny parts.

[Meester]

Now thats comedy.

Will the isk generated from this carebear population control program be used against Triumvirate. and HUN Reloaded (Hun sometimes ally with Tri?)?

[Reg]

This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense.

[Kovacs]

I've gone ahead and bolded what I think are the funny parts.

It's not really the scam so much, although obviously really shitty thing to do to a family style guild but.. eh whatever, live through it or die.  Who would want to be surounded by people who thought those quotes really were funny?  Not me.

[Thrawn]

Will the isk generated from this carebear population control program be used against Triumvirate. and HUN Reloaded (Hun sometimes ally with Tri?)?

Isk will probably go into the pockets of whoever did the scam.  GF has more isk then it knows what to do with. 

[Phildo]

Sorry, but this particular quote is funny:

[ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > U FUCKING FAG ASS FUCK I CANT WAIT TILL MY LEGACY WALKS ALL OVER YALLS MUNKEY ASSES

[Trigona]

This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense.

This behaviour imo is pathetic and although I enjoy the flying with the goons (in joint opps), I just hate this scamming ethos.  For me mmos are about the social bonds that are forged between friends and enemies.  The goons don't need the isk, they don't have a hatred of the people they ripp off, they just do it cause they're dickheads.

Schadenfreude  - it's lame and immature.

[Reg]

I think it's more a community building thing than because they're just dickheads. This kind of stuff makes it easier to separate themselves from everyone else and lets them heighten their own identity. Because "everyone else" is stupid and falls for scams. Because "everyone else" hates the Goons.

[Endie]

Goonswarm is a broad church, and the attitude of the leadership is that you can do what you like to neutrals or hostiles (our allies are sacrosanct).  So you get people who like fleet ops (GFFL), people who like griefing-oriented PvP (Jihadswarm), people who like making space riches (97.4% of our worthless alliance), people who like roaming gangs and, yes, people who like scamming.  CCP made that a fundamental part of the game.  It was in their UO roots, they created the mechanics in a way that encourages it, and they steadfastly remove to punichs it, whether it is recruitment scamming or ponzi schemes.  I don't do it and I don't really feel anything but kinda :shobon: for the victims, but I accept that it is part of what makes Eve, Eve.  The game has already moved too far towards safety and consequence-free gameplay for most of the playerbase, and I'd be loath to see this sort of thing go.

Our enemies like it, anyway: it gives us a reputation with ignorant empire pubbies for ultimate evil, so when some emo retards like God Chaser or Shiu want an excuse to give up responsibility before they receive a hammering they can tell lies like "Goons phoned my house and threatened to kill my family" and a few people will buy it.

Our own website says on the front page that if a goon is asking you for money on something like this you're probably being scammed.  Our alliance description very often says the same thing for weeks at a time.  Honestly, apathetic bloody alliances.  If they can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs...

[Trigona]

All the goons I have got to know through these forums and in game I have the utmost respect for and I'm glad ccp allow p. much anything to be ok.  I guess I'd prefer people I like not to to indulge in behaviour that I disapprove of.

On a side note, the road trip that MM was going to take has been postponed for a couple of weeks.  Too many people in alliance want to fight war targets in Tribute or refill their wallets.  When we do go on holiday I'm sure we'll be fighting with the goons once again. 

[NiX]

I'm still surprised people give Goons money when they promise something. Its been going on for how long now? I'm sorry, but people just need to learn to smarten the fuck up.

[Murgos]

The general idea among goons is that if you get scammed by a goon it's your own damned fault.  There are plenty of 'Warning Goons scam the shit out of everyone." notices out there.

Part of what makes that chat log so funny is that you can tell they more than half expected to be scammed in the first place and yet they went through with it.

As far as supporting the play style goes though, one of the things that makes Goonswarm what it is is the inclusive nature of their membership.  Just follow the published method for joining goonswarm and you're in.  So, the leadership has to make room for everyone.

[Reg]

Well yes of course people need to smarten up. It doesn't mean I have to laugh along while a bunch of gloating goons giggle and smirk over how they spoiled the game for someone whose greatest crime was being naive and uninformed.

[Phildo]

Woo, threadsplit!  Sorry 'bout that one, Yoru.

Reg, being naive and uninformed while wanting to get involved in 0.0 is pretty negligent on anyone's part.  The harshness of that part of the game is very well documented and pretty much anyone who knows anything about Eve should be aware of what it's like.  Only flying what you can afford to lose and being aware that anything can kill you are the first two lessons anyone should learn in Eve.  I do feel bad for them on some levels which is why I'm not a scammer myself, but one of the fundamental joys of Eve for me is being able to point at a killboard and say "Look at this shit I just helped kill, and look how upset they were about it."

If I ever threaten that my legacy will walk all over y'alls munkey asses or quit the game because I lost some expensive ships, please call me out on that publicly.

Furthermore, this is F13 and we're supposed to make fun of people with horrendous spelling of words like "iratianal" and net handles like AMERICANSLIMSHADY.

[Goumindong]

I find it funny that people complain that people scam, but don't complain when a neutral flies a ship into an area and gets blown up.

There is pretty much no difference. If you are not blue, you will get destroyed in any way as a target of opportunity.

Now, if the people doing this were official goonswarm representatives who are tasked with making the political decisions for the swarm then there might be a case, but that would only be a case of "foolish political strategy" rather than any sort of immoral act.

We play a game where the main point is to blow the other guy up and take their stuff, deal with it

[Reg]

I realize how terribly out of step I am with prevailing sentiments here. That's why I normally am careful to avoid the threads where you all congratulate each other on how clever you are and how stupid everyone else is.

I just couldn't avoid this particular one because it appeared in the War thread.  I guess I'll go "deal with it." Have fun.

[rand]

This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense.

This behaviour imo is pathetic and although I enjoy the flying with the goons (in joint opps), I just hate this scamming ethos.  For me mmos are about the social bonds that are forged between friends and enemies.  The goons don't need the isk, they don't have a hatred of the people they ripp off, they just do it cause they're dickheads.

Schadenfreude  - it's lame and immature.

scamming is a type of social bond that involves owning pubbies yall grandmas

[NiX]

I realize how terribly out of step I am with prevailing sentiments here. That's why I normally am careful to avoid the threads where you all congratulate each other on how clever you are and how stupid everyone else is.

I just couldn't avoid this particular one because it appeared in the War thread.  I guess I'll go "deal with it." Have fun.

I didn't congratulate them, but you keep on trucking with that sand castle in your vagina.

[Strazos]

I just think it is cool that you can scam at all, though I don't do it myself.

Warfare - More than just Blowing Shit Up.

[Marcus kerensky]

   I saw this the day it posted, just in the chaos of our debacle I didn't have time to reply.  I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of "live, learn, and rebuild". My thoughts on quitting were mostly based around the idea that I have had of late,  that I need a new time sink. The beauty of our alliance, as one person pointed out, is that it is very much a family. I must have received 40+ phone calls from my pilots, not 30 seconds after the last kill, asking me to stay, that we would rebuild. For that I am grateful beyond words.
   I made a mistake trusting Goons, but they played the part perfectly, down to things like exchanges of photos of the transaction, a contract that my attorney GF would be proud of, and a phone number to the Goon rep who recruited us, complete with a title that looked legit. I searched forums, blogs, read threads till my eyes bled, looking for some evidence of this having been done before, to no avail. So my thought was, "What the hell, why not?" All in all, I was very impressed with the amount of effort that went into it, (Almost 3 weeks)  and despite the fact that I almost was able to jump my carrier out, I'm glad I lost it. Goon taught us an important lesson, travel light, and be willing to lose your ship, implants and ISK. Just never lose your perspective.
   As for SHADY, trust me, he gets his for his name...  =P

-Service-
MK

[Thrawn]

For 10 billion isk I can get all of your stuff back for you. 

[Endie]

   I saw this the day it posted, just in the chaos of our debacle I didn't have time to reply.  I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of "live, learn, and rebuild". My thoughts on quitting were mostly based around the idea that I have had of late,  that I need a new time sink. The beauty of our alliance, as one person pointed out, is that it is very much a family. I must have received 40+ phone calls from my pilots, not 30 seconds after the last kill, asking me to stay, that we would rebuild. For that I am grateful beyond words.
   I made a mistake trusting Goons, but they played the part perfectly, down to things like exchanges of photos of the transaction, a contract that my attorney GF would be proud of, and a phone number to the Goon rep who recruited us, complete with a title that looked legit. I searched forums, blogs, read threads till my eyes bled, looking for some evidence of this having been done before, to no avail. So my thought was, "What the hell, why not?" All in all, I was very impressed with the amount of effort that went into it, (Almost 3 weeks)  and despite the fact that I almost was able to jump my carrier out, I'm glad I lost it. Goon taught us an important lesson, travel light, and be willing to lose your ship, implants and ISK. Just never lose your perspective.
   As for SHADY, trust me, he gets his for his name...  =P

-Service-
MK

Good for you, chief.  You have two obvious options at this point:

1) work hard, get it back (and more) and know that those that help to do so are pretty committed.  Build it into your history, your identity, and profit from that in more important ways than ISK.
2) Insert a spy into us in return and fuck us up.  Not easy to steal stuff back on a grand scale since GS is so paranoid, but possible.  Probably easier to feed intel.  Fair's fair, and most of us would be nothing other than amused if you managed.  Especially if you did it to DS1 or Battlestars.

Don't sign your posts, though.

[Phildo]

Oh shit, hey Marcus.  You're handling this much better than other people have in the past.  Kudos.

[Slayerik]

For 10 billion isk I can get all of your stuff back for you. 

Kinda reminds me of the idiot that put an 80 million bounty on me after suicide ganking. And sent a tough guy mail about it. Seriously? Are you that fucking dumb? Thanks for turning a 500 million gank into a 575 million gank (after clone).

Eve rules because of it's ruthlessness. Without it, I probably would have sold my accounts by now.

[Setanta]

Wow - nice scam. Just when you think you see human nature at its worst, EVE pops up and teaches a new lesson :)

[gryeyes]

Its so blatantly stupid that "scam" does not even seem the right word. Marcus seems like a good guy and has an awesome attitude about the situation. But I cant think of a set of circumstances more dubious. All of the assurances granted still fall into the category of trusting people who define themselves by their cockfaggery to outsiders.

The transcript immedietly made me think of.



IT WAS A FUCKING AMBUSH!

[WindupAtheist]

I think Marcus needs to get that one guy to post here, the "WHAT THE FUCK IM GONNA YARRRRRRR" guy. That shit was hilarious and I want more.

[Yoru]

scamming is a type of social bond that involves owning pubbies yall grandmas

Stop posting. No, I mean entirely, forever.

[MahrinSkel]

Don't sign your posts, though.

What?

--Dave (damn kids, get off my information superhighway)

[Phildo]

Don't sign your posts, though.

What?

--Dave (damn kids, get off my information superhighway)

-Bring the noise

[NiX]

-Bring the noise

Pussies! Do it the manly way...

[Phildo]

-Bring the noise

Pussies! Do it the manly way...

Barely restraining myself from throwing every Goon meme in the book at you right now.

[NiX]

Barely restraining myself from throwing every Goon meme in the book at you right now.

This isn't about goons. It's about FREEDOM!

[Amarr HM]

Main thing that puts me off the scamming is the amount of time you need to invest in doing it and judging by Markus' post a lot of time went into this particular one.

[Sparky]

Yeah I've read about genuine 419 scams that took less :effort:.  Good job goons are too nerdy and socially awkward for real world criminality.