Griefing can be fun... for those doing the griefing.

[Shockeye]

This is too funny not to share.

1. Polymorph Exploited | 12/17/2004 11:37:03 AM PST   

I spent half an hour sheeped last night. Some mages thought it would be funny to keep me sheeped as long as possible. I consider it griefing but what can I do? I can't even run away when sheeped.

They were alternating their polymorph on me as best I could tell.

I even managed to drink a Free Action Potion trying to figure out how to get out of there, but it did nothing. I can't cast or dispel or run away or anything, basically mages are able to steal my time.

Now, after laughing for a minute I noticed the information about the poster.

Dhalgren
Level 36 Dwarf Priest
Guild:    Canadian Legion
Realm:    Kel'Thuzad

My question is now, since this happend to a Canadian could it be considered a hate crime?

[Threash]

I don't know how many people it would take to keep someone polyd for half an hour with the diminishing returns code but it would be easily stopped simply by logging off.  Remember kids, its not griefing if its allowed under the rules.

[Samprimary]

Three mages did that one time to a 36 Paladin who got caught attacking Razor Hill. The rest just stood around him and danced.

[Righ]

I think it's fairly trivial to do with a small number of mages. The PvP reuse penalty is something like 50% then 25% duration. Since the poly lasts 20 seconds at 100%, and the reuse timer is quite short (a couple of minutes), a small number can keep it going indefinately.

[Threash]

Seems like a very stupid way to grief someone if it takes 3 or even 2 people wasting the same amount of time just to keep one person sheeped, specially when he can simply log off any time he feels like.

[SirBruce]

Forcing the person to log off would still be griefing.

Bruce

[Jayce]

Forcing the person to log off would still be griefing.

Perhaps.  But if you are engaged in PvP in this game, you chose it at some point (barring exploits).  Given that, the player could "win" by logging off for 10 minutes and eating a sandwich while the logged-on mages wasted their time.

And ultimately, isn't PvP about out-thinking your opponent with the result of wasting his time?

[geldonyetich]

I was charmed once by those pesky Alliance that were harassing Splintertree Post in Ashenvale.   They had my Warlock melee a lvl 40 Hoarde Guard with my staff.   Lucky I wasn't doing the tanking.   Course', being Undead, I can avoid being recharmed by slamming a racial ability button, but the charm lasted a whole 60 seconds and in the meanwhile I just had to mill around and  see how things are like when my side is colored red and theirs green.  Unfortunately, there's little I can do to make myself immune to polymorph (other than perhaps to swig a magic resistance potion).

[SirBruce]

Forcing the person to log off would still be griefing.

Perhaps.  But if you are engaged in PvP in this game, you chose it at some point (barring exploits).  Given that, the player could "win" by logging off for 10 minutes and eating a sandwich while the logged-on mages wasted their time.

And ultimately, isn't PvP about out-thinking your opponent with the result of wasting his time?

No.  People want restricted PvP, not unrestricted PvP.  This is why the NFL, for example, has very regimented rules as to who can throw the ball, when they can throw it, who they can throw it to, how much you can touch someone, etc.  PvP is about a contest of skills within a particular set of rules.  Working otuside of those rules is often considered unfair.

One could argue that constantly polymorphing is within the rules of WoW, since the game allows you to do it.  Perhaps, but that's probably NOT the sort of rules the victim had in mind when they consented to PvP.  Moreover, even though it's technically allowed, it could be a behavior which is judged to produce a game that isn't quite the one people want or consider fair, and so the rules are changed.  See the various rules changes over the years in the NFL relating to what receivers can do (stick-em), what DBs can do, where the ball is placed after a failed field goal, etc.

But you should know all this.  "I can do it, so it must be okay!" is a two-year old's logic.

Bruce

[schild]

Sheeping is funny. It's not an exploit. There aren't enough mages for this to happen often. It's coincedental that the guy it happened to is one of the 1% that actually posts on boards.

That said, I wish this happened more often. Oh, and it's not griefing. Takes too much work to be considered griefing.

[ahoythematey]

This is something I desperately want to see or do myself.  Words cannot express how deeply I hate the majority of people that play on my particular server.

[Jayce]

Moreover, even though it's technically allowed, it could be a behavior which is judged to produce a game that isn't quite the one people want or consider fair

And that's the problem with a large amount of people who PvP in these games.  When presented with a new situation or challenge, they'd rather hit a message board and whine about it with academic-sounding rhetoric rather than thinking creatively and rising to the challenge.  Over time, things get changed and games get dumbed down.

But I suppose that's the instant gratification TV generation for you.

[HaemishM]

I consider it quite funny, however, I also consider that it makes PVP not quite so good. It is the DAoC Stungard problem over again.

Sure, it takes a number of mages to do it. But shouldn't the immunity to being polymorphed last long enough that you can't be chained in this way? Because, you know there's nothing that makes PVP less fun than not being able to do fuck all about the attacks being heaped upon you.

It WILL become a problem, because it's entirely too good a tactic to remove the most important component of the opposition in team games; the healer. Keep him polyed, the rest of your crew can go whaling away on anything else.

And yes, it IS grief. If the only option for getting out of it is log off or wait til the harrassers get bored, you are being griefed.

But it's still funny as fuck.

[Nija]

Sounds like that guy is griefing himself by not having any friends/guildmates/people in /1 to ask for help. Sad.

Time to make a mage.

[Threash]

I consider it quite funny, however, I also consider that it makes PVP not quite so good. It is the DAoC Stungard problem over again.

Sure, it takes a number of mages to do it. But shouldn't the immunity to being polymorphed last long enough that you can't be chained in this way? Because, you know there's nothing that makes PVP less fun than not being able to do fuck all about the attacks being heaped upon you.

It WILL become a problem, because it's entirely too good a tactic to remove the most important component of the opposition in team games; the healer. Keep him polyed, the rest of your crew can go whaling away on anything else.

And yes, it IS grief. If the only option for getting out of it is log off or wait til the harrassers get bored, you are being griefed.

But it's still funny as fuck.

They already nerfed it on the Europe beta server, poly fear and sap only last for a max of 15 seconds during pvp.

[Kageru]

Of course it is griefing. It doesn't matter how many mages it took. Nor is it reasonable to blame the victim because he should have had high level allies to call upon. The only relevant fact is that one group of players were able to degrade anothers players game experience while that player had no reasonable means of retaliation or escape. That's griefing.

That said if you  play on a PvP server then you should have realized what you were signing up for.

[Evil Elvis]

When did time management enter into the grief equation?  Shit, most real griefing is a huge waste of time on the griefers part.  Do you honestly think they give a fuck?

That said, I can't believe they left poly and sap in at retail as it was.  Aside from the huge griefing opportunities, it's way too powerful.  When's the last time you resisted a sheep?  Probably never.  I've had low level 20's sheep me, and I'm level 50.  The upcoming 15-second max limit is much needed, and should have been in long ago.

Also, fuck their diminishing returns code.  I've been sheeped multiple times in a row, and have yet to see it kick it.  If it's even working, it needs to be upped alot.  The odds of landing a 3rd consecutive sheep/sap/fear on someone w/o any cooldown should be almost nill.

Maybe once they hammer this shit out, they'll get to work on pet not flagging the owner in pvp, people attacking from rooftops and water in neutral cities, and the complete ass AI for the town guards.

[Jayce]

When's the last time you resisted a sheep?  Probably never.

This I agree with.

I've landed poly on people I had no business landing it on.  People who resisted all my other spells.

While I appreciate any equalizing factor between low levels and high ones in PvP, one way or the other should be chosen.  Either make it easy to land any spell on higher levels without resistance (like the low level would be doing damage worth a flip anyway), or make them all resistable.

[Pineapple]

Forcing the person to log off would still be griefing.

Bruce

You cant even log out when sheeped. You cannot choose "exit the game". The only way you are getting out of the game while in sheep form is to crtl-alt-del and end the WoW process.

In beta there were no diminishing returns on sheeping, and it was guaranteed 20 seconds or however long it said. Mages could regen their mana faster then the casting would drain it. Quite literally, you could keep someone sheeped for hours if you cast it every 9 seconds. They could do absolutely nothing, save the force client shutdown.

Fun days.

[Samprimary]

Wow. And the mages were sitting around and sheeping him on relog, too. Skeezy. But fun, and I never saw him in Durotar again.