Help me with a pet... please!

[voodoolily]

As a non-dog owner, though, I'd like to chime in a request that you also respect your neighbors and your city's leash laws and KEEP YOUR DOG LEASHED ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS. My cats have been chased into our back yard, up trees, more times than I can count by dogs that people either don't leash at all or unleash a block away (we live next to a park). When you confront them about it, they get all pissy like you're just being an asshole.

I've also known two people who had to have cats euthanized (at expensive emergency pet hospitals) after off-leash dogs disemboweled them.

There are some breeds that are stupid and spazzy no matter what you do, but with a trainable breed like my border collie/australian sheperd mix the leash is a non-factor.  Although, I have no doubt she would attack a person or animal that threatened the family.  I think she believes we're her herd of cows :P

Yeah, we have one neighbor in particular whose black lab, Luna, is completely mellow around cats and as long as she has her pink ball in her mouth is perfectly content. She will still try to walk into our house if the door is open, though. The only solution we could find to the off-leash dog problem is to have a fence built around the unfenced side of our house. This is an expense we really wish we didn't have to deal with, but I'm tired of finding dog crap and damage to my property (our next door neighbor's dog snuck into our yard and pulled my pig skull off the porch and ate it) when I don't even own a fucking dog.

...that's kind of an indirect problem with being a cat owner (if your cats are indoor/outdoor) - not only to you have to clean up after your own pets, but your cats attract other people's pets. Every male cat in the neighborhood hangs out in our yard, marking with urine and vying for position on the social ladder, which in turn makes our cats more aggressive. Plus the dog chasing thing. And we still have a rat and squirrel problem. That Komodo dragon is sounding better all the time.

[Viin]

For the lazy pet owner, who wants a real pet (ie: not fish or a hamster), a cat is the easiest. Super easy, especially if you get one already grown out of the kitten phase a bit. But even the kitten phase isn't a big deal.

[Polysorbate80]

Our dog rarely actually craps in our yard; she almost always does it on her morning walk--but oddly enough, I used to to still have heaps of dogshit in my back yard all the time.   I always figured it was strays, until I caught the neighbor in the rental behind our property deliberately sending his mutt into our yard to take a shit when he thought we weren't home.  Lazy fucker. 

[Sjofn]

For the lazy pet owner, who wants a real pet (ie: not fish or a hamster), a cat is the easiest. Super easy, especially if you get one already grown out of the kitten phase a bit. But even the kitten phase isn't a big deal.

Yeah, they're leaps and bounds easier than dogs, since they are extremely unlikely to come NOT knowing how to use the litterbox, etc.

[Feverdream]

I'm biased, I guess....my opinions are shaped from being raised in a family of veterinarians and working as a vet. tech all through high school and undergrad school, as well volunteering at local humane societies.  So I have some general opinions about various breeds of dogs and their suitability as family pets which I hope are informed by experience, but we all do have our blind spots.

Someone recommended a bulldog or dachshund...no, no, no.  These are both great dogs, but they are VERY stubborn breeds, so your 'easy to train' requirement would go right out the window.  Someone else recommended a Malamute...but they are not always the best with kids, and if I recall, you didn't want a shedder.  Malamutes shed in huge quantities =P.

There are quite a few breeds that would meet your requirements, but when all is said and done I'd agree with the recommendation another poster made:  Go with a retired racing greyhound.

They're very clean and quiet, almost catlike.  They are TOTAL couch potatoes.  They're typically a bright dog, and respond very well to training. The rescue organizations that work specifically with retired racers will screen them for temperament to be sure they're OK with kids or other animals if you need to be sure about that (greyhounds in general are kid-safe, but it's always good to screen to be sure you don't end up with an unhappy exception to that rule).

[Jimbo]

I have a hard time with the dog intelligence score thing.  I've had both a Rough Collie and a Beagle, they do things differently, just like owners of Bloodhounds vs Belgian Malinois for tracking and police work, you get the dog that has the right temperament and conditioning.  The dog Intel guys think that the hounds are dumb, because they like to get on a scent and won't let up...hello! that is what they are made to do, you can't make a hound into a cattle dog or get it to attack like some of the other working dogs.

Hounds have it hard to train because of the over stimulation from the sights, sounds, and smells that we don't get, to them the world is one cool place to run crazy and get treats.  Chances are you can find a beagle or beagle mix at the shelter or find someone who has pups that don't have papers and get them for a decent price.

[Khaldun]

I do agree with the retired racing greyhound idea...our friends have them, and they're exactly as described. One caveat: they cannot *ever* be let off leash in an open space, cause they'll run and run and run. It's kind of weird...total couch potatoes, happy inside, quite calm on walks, but off-leash in a park and suddenly the racing training grabs hold of them.

[TheWalrus]

From the area you described, you will need at least one cat to keep mice from eating your house and vehicle wiring.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I do agree with the retired racing greyhound idea...our friends have them, and they're exactly as described. One caveat: they cannot *ever* be let off leash in an open space, cause they'll run and run and run. It's kind of weird...total couch potatoes, happy inside, quite calm on walks, but off-leash in a park and suddenly the racing training grabs hold of them.

I was just going to say this.  Greyhounds can't ever be left off leash, because they'll be gone.  My brother had 2 he's rescued and they were the most docile babies, but he gave them up again because he was working really long hours and it wasn't fair to the dogs to be left alone for so long.  Also remember, these aren't small dogs either. 

Personally, I'd never have a dog that could fit on my lap, but that's just me.  Anything that small isn't a real dog, IMO.  I'd have a cat if I thought my Golden would leave it alone and the husband let me.

Since someone else mentioned an electric fence and you're going to have plenty of room, just make sure the collar is either easy to put on/take off, or you can leave it on the dog all the time.  The second part is generally easier if it's a short coated dog though, since you don't have as much fur to account for in trying to get the prongs to the skin.  But since you want little shedding, it sounds like short coated is the choice.

[angry.bob]

There are some breeds that are stupid and spazzy no matter what you do, but with a trainable breed like my border collie/australian sheperd mix the leash is a non-factor.  Although, I have no doubt she would attack a person or animal that threatened the family.  I think she believes we're her herd of cows :P

As a lifelong dog owner and follower of leash laws, it doesn't fucking matter. The minute anyone who owns a dog steps an inch off their own property with the dog, they need to have it on a leash and a bag to pick up the crap. One, it's the law in most places. Two, I live across the street from a park and I can't count how many times people's friendly family dog that they let of the leash has bolted out of the park and into my property to start shit with my dog. Naturally, they act like I'm an overeating asshole for spraying their dog with the hose. I'm often tempted to just thank them for the new, free dog they delivered to my house and then tell them to fuck off while I take the dog inside, but that's likely to cause more problems than it's worth.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, lots and lots and lots of dog owners swear their precious little pookums is totally fine off-leash, but all it really takes is one time of it deciding to bolt for fun and get run over, get in a fight with another dog, etc. It's better for all involved to work the leash magic. It's not just for OTHER people, it's for the dog in question too.

If my sister had a dollar for every time her rough collie has gotten lunged at by a dog that "never did that before," she could probably buy another collie. Some dogs just don't like a particular dog and you won't know it until it's a problem. My sister's collie is apparently a dog that screams PLEASE KICK MY ASS. To be fair, he is the biggest wuss in the world, with exactly zero prey drive. He won't chase animals, although he will try to corner them in a sneaky way, and then sniff them. And that's that, he goes on his merry way.

[chargerrich]

1. Smaller
2. Little to no shedding
3. Easily trainable
4. Prefer lazy as hell (no hyper active dogs)

Sounds like you want a pair of rats. They fit all the criteria listed perfectly!

LOL they have lazy mice where you live?

[Polysorbate80]

One, it's the law in most places. Two, I live across the street from a park and I can't count how many times people's friendly family dog that they let of the leash has bolted out of the park and into my property to start shit with my dog.

Three, go carve that into a 2x4, hammer some rusty nails into it, and cram it up your ass.  Sideways.

Strangely enough, the few people who ever complain about my dog not being on a leash are generally themselves doing something illegal or improper.  My favorite is the guy out on the local recreation path who whizzes by on his racing bike at ~30mph (15mph limit) without warning he's passing on the left (officially mandatory, or at least polite, especially when you're speeding) and screams in passing that the dog needs to be on a leash.  Frankly, he's more of a danger than my pet; he's real hard to hear coming up from behind.

I can sympathize some on your second point; if someone's dog is not going to be on a leash it needs to be trained to leave shit alone unless told otherwise.  If they're coming over to "start shit" with your dog, though, I have to wonder whether your dog is helping to provoke it.

[Nebu]

Three, go carve that into a 2x4, hammer some rusty nails into it, and cram it up your ass.  Sideways.

Strangely enough, the few people who ever complain about my dog not being on a leash are generally themselves doing something illegal or improper.  My favorite is the guy out on the local recreation path who whizzes by on his racing bike at ~30mph (15mph limit) without warning he's passing on the left (officially mandatory, or at least polite, especially when you're speeding) and screams in passing that the dog needs to be on a leash.  Frankly, he's more of a danger than my pet; he's real hard to hear coming up from behind.

I can sympathize some on your second point; if someone's dog is not going to be on a leash it needs to be trained to leave shit alone unless told otherwise.  If they're coming over to "start shit" with your dog, though, I have to wonder whether your dog is helping to provoke it.

No one can control their dog 100% of the time.  That's why leash laws exist.  That and to protect children.  If you want your dog off a leash, go someplace where no one else is around.  

I do agree that the guy on the bike is a hazaard as well, it's just a separate issue.

[SnakeCharmer]

If they're coming over to "start shit" with your dog, though, I have to wonder whether your dog is helping to provoke it.

Yeah.  Seriously.

I bet angry.dog is standing there going 'bark bark bark bark growl woof bark bark bark' which is loosely translated into 'yeah that's that's right, motherfucker, i called your mother a bitch!!! whatchoo gonna do about it, shiteater?'.

[Polysorbate80]

Can't control your kids 100% of the time either, but we let them run around without leashes.

Probably best I just stop commenting before the thread gets sent off to the "pound".  I will just state for the record that I disagree and will continue to disagree, and leave it at that.

[Brogarn]

Can't control your kids 100% of the time either, but we let them run around without leashes.

Probably best I just stop commenting before the thread gets sent off to the "pound".  I will just state for the record that I disagree and will continue to disagree, and leave it at that.

Really? That's your counterargument? Kids aren't on leashes so dogs shouldn't have to be on them either? Interesting.

Also, you can agree to disagree all you like, the law hasn't changed. Your dog is supposed to be on a leash. Put one on it and if you disagree with the law, we live in a  Democracy. Contact your congressman, write letters, etc .etc. In the meantime, put your fucking dog on a leash.

[Polysorbate80]

Fuck it then, the thread's off to the den.

The kids on leashes bit is only serious in that nobody fucking controls anything or anyone 100% of the time.  That's a given.  We give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove they're untrustworthy.  Why not for dogs?

I'm not "agreeing to disagree" or asking anyone else to do so.  I'm telling you that so long as my dog exhibits no behavior that would force me to leash her on walks, I'm not going to do it, so save your breath. (Or pixels, or whatthefuckever)  You might want to call the cops and let them know.  You know, the ones I frequently pass who don't give a shit, because the dog behaves as it should.

Speaking of kids, I've seen a few little shits get nipped by dogs because the children just would not leave the dog the fuck alone.  The best pet in the world won't take abuse forever.  Train your kids, people.

[voodoolily]

Someone else recommended a Malamute...but they are not always the best with kids, and if I recall, you didn't want a shedder.  Malamutes shed in huge quantities =P.

I was making a joke. My friend's Malamute basically just lays down with her belly on the floor from about May to September since she can't move in the warm weather.

[gryeyes]

I always feel bad for huskies and other cold climate dogs kept in warm places. They are fucking miserable most of the time. As for pets I say a friendly domesticated squirrel! Also, If my child was capable of escaping me and killing another child and or adult I would leash it. You are leashing the dog for other peoples comfort and safety. And since 99% of dog owners don't know jack shit about training their dog its a good rule of thumb.

[voodoolily]

There are some breeds that are stupid and spazzy no matter what you do, but with a trainable breed like my border collie/australian sheperd mix the leash is a non-factor.  Although, I have no doubt she would attack a person or animal that threatened the family.  I think she believes we're her herd of cows :P

As a lifelong dog owner and follower of leash laws, it doesn't fucking matter. The minute anyone who owns a dog steps an inch off their own property with the dog, they need to have it on a leash and a bag to pick up the crap. One, it's the law in most places. Two, I live across the street from a park and I can't count how many times people's friendly family dog that they let of the leash has bolted out of the park and into my property to start shit with my dog. Naturally, they act like I'm an overeating asshole for spraying their dog with the hose. I'm often tempted to just thank them for the new, free dog they delivered to my house and then tell them to fuck off while I take the dog inside, but that's likely to cause more problems than it's worth.

Usually yelling "leash your fucking dog or I'm calling Animal Control" does the trick, and they start using a different entrance to the park, but I don't like the little neighbor kids seeing/hearing me use that kind of language. Our main problem now is when I'm out of town and Sauced has to confront a woman with an off-leash dog. They get way up in his face about it like, "what're you gonna do, huh asshole?" If I were home I'd beat the shit out of a bitch that tried that, and I'd call the cops on her dog. My husband is too nice.

[Stewie]

Ill second the Blue Heeler recommendation.
I used to have one and they only shed for a few weeks of the year, are one of the smartest dogs around.
That being said they do require a lot of exercise , but with your property that should not be a problem.
 

[Polysorbate80]

If the dog is honestly being a problem, call animal control (or the cops, if they do double duty as AC in your town).  It's their responsibility to handle it, not yours; don't try to be "nice."

Unless it's endangering someone; then feel free to kill it, IMO.  I'm not a hypocrite; I would expect that to happen to my own dog if she were to harm someone outside of protecting my property & family.

Edit to add:  Before someone comments, no, I do not see simply being off the leash as "endangering" someone :P  I mean threatening or attempting to bite or some such.

[K9]

Mate, I think it's time you just stopped. Go get some fresh air.

[Khaldun]

I don't take my own dogs off-leash, but I'm not necessarily bothered by someone who has if the place and context are ok, and the dog is highly trained. E.g., if I'm hiking in the woods, there's really very few people around, and I pass someone with a well-trained dog that's off-leash, I'll pull my own guys off to the side, let them pass, and it's fine. If someone lets a well-trained dog off-leash to go jump in a pond or creek in a remote area, fine. If it's a windy, rainy beach in November, I'm ok with an off-leash dog. Remote, quiet, wild places where a well-trained dog gets a special pleasure out of being able to roam a bit, sure.

I get nervous about any off-leash dog, no matter how well-trained, in a more crowded or social setting. I don't think it's a good idea regardless of training to have an off-leash dog in a crowded municipal park, for example. Or at a big social gathering.

See, the thing is, I have no way of knowing whether someone else's dog is well-trained. I've seen very placid, seemingly controlled dogs suddenly trigger off, regardless of what an owner tells me about the dog's training. So an off-leash dog is something that I have to keep my eye on if it's around me, my family or my dogs. If I'm in a park, hanging around, rather than moving on a hike or walk, then an off-leash dog hanging around the same area is something I have to constantly pay attention to, which detracts from the whole point of trying to be relaxed in a park. In that kind of more crowded, social and public context, insisting on having an off-leash dog is a kind of narcissism, a hijack of space that has to be shared with other people and purposes. It's not a big deal in that context to give up a bit of your (and the dog's pleasure) to leash the dog and assure other people that your dog is under your control.

[Polysorbate80]

Mate, I think it's time you just stopped. Go get some fresh air.

Yeah, I should go take the dog for a walk 

[Ingmar]

The little dog my family had was attacked (while on leash, and got a punctured lung and some torn muscles) by an off-leash samoyed once when I was walking her, and I can guarantee she did nothing to provoke it. You off-leash people can seriously go fuck off. It doesn't matter how nice and friendly your dog "seems", or how nice it is to people or dogs that it knows, there's always a chance of these kind of things. Keep it on a fucking leash unless you're someplace that specifically allows it to go off like a dog park or something.

[Sjofn]

Can't control your kids 100% of the time either, but we let them run around without leashes.

Probably best I just stop commenting before the thread gets sent off to the "pound".  I will just state for the record that I disagree and will continue to disagree, and leave it at that.

Really? That's your counterargument? Kids aren't on leashes so dogs shouldn't have to be on them either? Interesting.

Also, you can agree to disagree all you like, the law hasn't changed. Your dog is supposed to be on a leash. Put one on it and if you disagree with the law, we live in a  Democracy. Contact your congressman, write letters, etc .etc. In the meantime, put your fucking dog on a leash.

What's awesome is that there ARE "leashes" for children. My brother and youngest sister had 'em because they wouldn't stop wandering off and introducing themselves to random strangers.

[Polysorbate80]

I actually tried to talk my wife into a leash for our daughter when she was younger.  The dog will listen when I tell it something.  The kid?  Not so much sometimes :P

[Polysorbate80]

The little dog my family had was attacked (while on leash, and got a punctured lung and some torn muscles) by an off-leash samoyed once when I was walking her, and I can guarantee she did nothing to provoke it. You off-leash people can seriously go fuck off. It doesn't matter how nice and friendly your dog "seems", or how nice it is to people or dogs that it knows, there's always a chance of these kind of things. Keep it on a fucking leash unless you're someplace that specifically allows it to go off like a dog park or something.

Again, it all depends on the dog.  Some can't be off a leash.  Never said that was the case.  Mine is perfectly fine in the middle of the crowded renaissance fair at the local park, and I want to growl at and bite some of the people there :P

OT:  I think I've got the ranting out of my system; it's found a new target in the mandatory migration of all our university's computers to Active Directory.  Except, I've already got ours on the AD.  And the handy tool the IT guys came up with to join computers to the AD and make other necessary changes to the system won't do any of those "other necessary changes" if the machine is already in the domain.  So I have to remove the computer and then run the tool to add it back in :P

[Vash]

Can't control your kids 100% of the time either, but we let them run around without leashes.

Probably best I just stop commenting before the thread gets sent off to the "pound".  I will just state for the record that I disagree and will continue to disagree, and leave it at that.

Really? That's your counterargument? Kids aren't on leashes so dogs shouldn't have to be on them either? Interesting.

Also, you can agree to disagree all you like, the law hasn't changed. Your dog is supposed to be on a leash. Put one on it and if you disagree with the law, we live in a  Democracy. Contact your congressman, write letters, etc .etc. In the meantime, put your fucking dog on a leash.

What's awesome is that there ARE "leashes" for children. My brother and youngest sister had 'em because they wouldn't stop wandering off and introducing themselves to random strangers.

My parents used them for me and my brother whenever they had to take us to a crowded public places (malls, dept. stores, etc.) as youngsters (2-5yrs old) otherwise we'd have nothing to stop us from running off and playing hide and seek in clothes racks and getting into all kinds of trouble.  Nowadays parents can put radio signal locator devices on their kids, makes me want to yell "Get off my lawn!".   

[Bunk]

We always kept our dogs on a leash when off our property. Still, sometimes your dog isn't safe in it's own yard - even when its the bigger dog.

We had female shepherd when I was a teen, and we had about a one acre lot. She had free run of the lot and was very good about staying in it. One day, whole family is outside, when a little terrier dog from the neighbour's yard decides to visit. Now there was a clear division between the yards marked by a tree line and a drainage ditch. We'd never really seen this little dog before, and all of a sudden it comes running in to the yard yipping away like only little rat dogs can...

Our shepherd, without missing a beat, jogs over to the yippy dog, picks it up by the scruff of the neck (like a dog would lift her pups), jogs over, and drops it on the far side of the ditch.

Well, holy shit did our bitch of a neighbour (the woman, not the dog) freak out. We ended up having to keep our dogs hidden in the house for a week, because the bitch called animal control on us... Her dog was fine, no blood, no injuries, just a little freaked out.

Basically the animal control officer told us, that while it was a ridiculous complaint, since it happened in our own yard - if they got a second complaint, they'd have no choice but to take our dog...

Turns out everything worked out - the neighbour was crazy and her husband divorced her about a month later, so we never saw her or the yippy dog again.

[voodoolily]

Nice setup with the first sentence, Bunk. Really sets the stage for what will surely be a tale of horror and/or tragedy. 

[Hawkbit]

All depends on the state.  Our dog about three years ago developed some serious agression issues when we had a baby and we placed him in a home where someone was going to work with him, hopefully so we could introduce him back into the household.  Well, less than a day after being there he bit this lady's neighbor and put her in the hospital for three days. 

They immediately dropped the dog off to us and we were told that we could not euthanize the dog for 14 days to ensure rabies didn't crop up.  Animal Control was very specific in saying that we did *not* have to euthanize the dog if we did not want to and they never once said they were going to pick the dog up. 

We did end up euthanizing him after the 14 days though. 

[Khaldun]

Hard as it may seem, that was the right thing to do, I think.