Well that's that then (Mark Jacobs leaves EA)

[Redgiant]

Hmm what about step 1. Treat your scenarios like an alternative ( and valid) play style and not an excuse to grind xp/renown.

Andy, at least you are posting here, which is good. And I know that you can only go so far in what you say or promise, regardless of what you might believe is right.

There are some simple obvious points I want to make, that every single person I personally know who has played WAR (~22 people) collectively agree on:

1. ORvR was expected to be THE focus of the game. It is not, and anything short of a revamp of the entire way the game works won't change that.

2. Most if not all people who are players I know, or posters unhappy with WAR in its current form, define ORvR by certain very obvious standards.

    a. The world is non-instanced, at least anything remotely related to ORvR. Frontiers, cities, anything part of the ORvR system. See DAoC. Do not see WARs split-up tiers, strange zone splits and geography.

    b. The world is persistent and lives on with whatever effects you and the other in the realms hae managed to accomplish. See DAoC. Do not see scenarios.

    c. The ongoing interest in ORvR is a combination of the ever-changing circumstances, politics, alliances, backstabbing, strategy and community-belonging feel that only real players vs. other real players can create and make dynamics day after day. No amount of bling, points systems or treadmills are going to remain viable and interesting unless player and realm dynamics are the center of the game system. You cannot possibly create enough content and mechanics on your own to appease the ORvR-craving population; the players do it for themselves with a living world. SEE DAOC FRONTIERS AND 3-WAY REALMS. Do not see WARs overbearing treadmills, locking rules, and mind-boggling reliance on PvE for its daily RvR system.

    d. Realm pride and guild support must innately be the top priority for players, not because they are forced to but because the game just allows you to want to. SEE DAOC.

    e. The ORvR must be the focus more than simple loot whoring and bean counting. This also alienates a lot of people who want the sheer fun of ORvR but not the b.s. of mindless gear shinies. And it must be quickly offered at every level range if you have a PvE component to familiarize and grow your character. See DAoC Battlegrounds and Frontiers. See populous WAR T1 and maybe T2. Do not see DAoC's ToA, WoW, WAR T4, or any other game that puts myriad roadblaocks between you and playing in ORvR. If ORvR is truly the point of the game (and not just lip service), then goddamnit let people GET TO IT.

There are an awful lot of people, myself included, who won't believe anything will change and will not give any "second chances" without anything short of a direct admission by SOMEONE at Mythic that you just plain screwed up in how you fundamentally slanted WAR. You were obviously trying to WoW-ize it instead of produce a more modern DAoC II with all the knowledge of what had worked great (a lot) and what didn't (ToA) for ORvR reasons. You know that we know that you know ... but of course no one will say that because they either don't believe it (epic fail) or can't change it now so won't say something they cannot do (your fault; Beta people tried to tell you a lot of things but you didn't listen to them or your past experiences).

Mythic bit the hand that fed them. Big time.

So, are you going to admit that scenarios are a stupid damn thing to focus so much attention on, and they should have never, ever been the primary means of, well, anything related to ORvR? Or that involving low-level PvE antics in ORvR goals is wrong?

[Morfiend]

Now where did I put that starfucking emote....

[Redgiant]

Whether or not MJ was let go due to accountability for WAR's disappointment, the appearance of accountability is good to see.  The gaming industry is too competitive for the old school MMOG designers who won't be swayed from their vision. More Hartsman and less Jacobs, please.

This is not accountability. Accountability for WAR is someone at Mythic stepping up and publicly admitting they messed up some basic things about its gameplay and focus.

So far, every single shred of official info or employee post has been (a) leadership is the same, and (b) WAR core gameplay is already right and they just need more population and class balance. They want more subs and returning players, but they say the exact worst thing that anyone who knows WAR at all needs to hear.

I know why they don't admit it, but really for their sake as a business to right itself, they better say it and embrace it and start DOING SOMETHING THE FUCK ABOUT IT sooner than later.

[Kirth]

Now where did I put that starfucking emote....

someone link this thread on WHA. 

[Demonix]

Now where did I put that starfucking emote....

someone link this thread on WHA. 

Why, is the banhammer getting rusty?  Did schild run out of kittens?

[DLRiley]

Hmm what about step 1. Treat your scenarios like an alternative ( and valid) play style and not an excuse to grind xp/renown.

Andy, at least you are posting here, which is good. And I know that you can only go so far in what you say or promise, regardless of what you might believe is right.

There are some simple obvious points I want to make, that every single person I personally know who has played WAR (~22 people) collectively agree on:

1. ORvR was expected to be THE focus of the game. It is not, and anything short of a revamp of the entire way the game works won't change that.

2. Most if not all people who are players I know, or posters unhappy with WAR in its current form, define ORvR by certain very obvious standards.

    a. The world is non-instanced, at least anything remotely related to ORvR. Frontiers, cities, anything part of the ORvR system. See DAoC. Do not see WARs split-up tiers, strange zone splits and geography.

    b. The world is persistent and lives on with whatever effects you and the other in the realms hae managed to accomplish. See DAoC. Do not see scenarios.

    c. The ongoing interest in ORvR is a combination of the ever-changing circumstances, politics, alliances, backstabbing, strategy and community-belonging feel that only real players vs. other real players can create and make dynamics day after day. No amount of bling, points systems or treadmills are going to remain viable and interesting unless player and realm dynamics are the center of the game system. You cannot possibly create enough content and mechanics on your own to appease the ORvR-craving population; the players do it for themselves with a living world. SEE DAOC FRONTIERS AND 3-WAY REALMS. Do not see WARs overbearing treadmills, locking rules, and mind-boggling reliance on PvE for its daily RvR system.

    d. Realm pride and guild support must innately be the top priority for players, not because they are forced to but because the game just allows you to want to. SEE DAOC.

    e. The ORvR must be the focus more than simple loot whoring and bean counting. This also alienates a lot of people who want the sheer fun of ORvR but not the b.s. of mindless gear shinies. And it must be quickly offered at every level range if you have a PvE component to familiarize and grow your character. See DAoC Battlegrounds and Frontiers. See populous WAR T1 and maybe T2. Do not see DAoC's ToA, WoW, WAR T4, or any other game that puts myriad roadblaocks between you and playing in ORvR. If ORvR is truly the point of the game (and not just lip service), then goddamnit let people GET TO IT.

There are an awful lot of people, myself included, who won't believe anything will change and will not give any "second chances" without anything short of a direct admission by SOMEONE at Mythic that you just plain screwed up in how you fundamentally slanted WAR. You were obviously trying to WoW-ize it instead of produce a more modern DAoC II with all the knowledge of what had worked great (a lot) and what didn't (ToA) for ORvR reasons. You know that we know that you know ... but of course no one will say that because they either don't believe it (epic fail) or can't change it now so won't say something they cannot do (your fault; Beta people tried to tell you a lot of things but you didn't listen to them or your past experiences).

Mythic bit the hand that fed them. Big time.

So, are you going to admit that scenarios are a stupid damn thing to focus so much attention on, and they should have never, ever been the primary means of, well, anything related to ORvR? Or that involving low-level PvE antics in ORvR goals is wrong?

I called it but was too late to stop it.

[Feverdream]

So, are you going to admit that scenarios are a stupid damn thing to focus so much attention on, and they should have never, ever been the primary means of, well, anything related to ORvR? Or that involving low-level PvE antics in ORvR goals is wrong?

Why the hell would I want Mythic community reps or devs to "admit" anything?  I'm so not interested in psychotherapy here.

I'd like an RvR-focused game.  They haven't made one yet.  I'm not convinced their team has the capacity to do so.  That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the burden the CR folks face in travelling around to various boards to post right now, but shrieking for confessions doesn't do much.

[Andy_Mythic]

Now where did I put that starwaffling emote....

I'm hardly worthwhile of that emote.

[Morfiend]

Now where did I put that starwaffling emote....

I'm hardly worthwhile of that emote.

Tell that to Redgiant. 

[schild]

Redgiant, no one likes an asshole, so don't be one.

[chargerrich]

In many ways, the words of a community team = our actions

If only.

That's not really targeted at you in any way. I've kept up with the WAR community team exactly this much: "not at all."

Edit: That's not quite true, I kept up with the WAR team while playing to know that none of the changes that were plaguing the game were going to get fixed any time soon.  

No offense taken, I've been reading here long enough, prior to my Mythic life, to know better than to be offended or think that anything said here is a personal attack on a huge level...for the most part  .

All I can say is, I look forward to the opportunity of working towards winning players back, yourself and others here included. There's no denying that many have negative feelings towards our game and we have a lot to do to correct those feelings. 16 tons and all that.

Well that comment is the first step... at least from my perspective that is the first I have read or heard anyone from Mythic even beginning to admit that the game was perhaps, "not awesome". Now if someone with the ability to make change would admit to errors in and a focus on the following:

1. The T3 and T4 cockblocks
2. The "McQuaid" inspired grinding required
3. The fact that getting to Rank 40 should be EASY and that gaining Realm Ranks should be hard.
4. Stop trying to be a PVE game, because as such it sucks... hard (see #3)

For the record... I do not see any stars to fuck around here and secondly I am done with the game, for good. The good ideas WAR had are or I believe will be implemented into WoW which is a vastly better game even if the PvP will always feel sterile.

1. queue BGs from anywhere - check
2. xp from pvp - check 3.2
3. guild tax - hoping
4. guild leveling - hoping
5. collision detection - yeah probably not

[DLRiley]

So, are you going to admit that scenarios are a stupid damn thing to focus so much attention on, and they should have never, ever been the primary means of, well, anything related to ORvR? Or that involving low-level PvE antics in ORvR goals is wrong?

Why the hell would I want Mythic community reps or devs to "admit" anything?  I'm so not interested in psychotherapy here.

I'd like an RvR-focused game.  They haven't made one yet.  I'm not convinced their team has the capacity to do so.  That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the burden the CR folks face in travelling around to various boards to post right now, but shrieking for confessions doesn't do much.

I'm going to laugh bloody tears when people realize that rvr can't hold the subs needed to make it work.

[schild]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

[Morfiend]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

I would resub for a month to see that.

[kildorn]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

That is a horrible picture. Like, nobody could possibly admit to liking anyone who posed for that, even ironically.

[Morfiend]

I got a present for you Andy. In handy avatar size.

[HaemishM]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

Yeah, this. I will never EVER subscribe to the game as long as this dickbag is still working on it. I don't give two rat fuck's in a the wind how nice a guy he is to work with. His public persona and the derision he seems to hold for even the most loyal of his customers, as well as his rampant unprofessionalism and just general muppetry ensure that I will never touch WAR until he is gone.

Start in his office, then shoot the fucker who refused to change the leveling curve, the assholes who won't or can't instance Fortress assaults and anyone involved in the capital city system and the ward gear.

Oh, Andy... how does it feel to be called a 3-star talent?

[Ingmar]

What the hell are those pants? 

[HaemishM]

Cockfags (TM)?

[Feverdream]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

Well.  I admit I'd like to see it.

But unless it was immediately followed by his public statement that he's decided to "pursue other interests", it wouldn't be enough to inspire a resub.  It would definitely warrant a "thank you!" to Andy for inflicting the pain on our collective behalf, though.

[Senses]

I get why Andy gives a shit if War gets fixed and makes happy, but why does anyone else.  Is this game even relevant anymore?  It was broke from top to bottom and if people's lives and careers weren't so invested in keeping it on life support, they'd be the first to pull the plug and let their loyal fanbase come crashing down.  The only reason at this point that anyone that doesn't receive a paycheck from EA should even care about it is whether or not some valuable lesson was gleaned from this disaster, but seeing as I'm either a pessimist, or a realist, I'll be awaiting the next train wreck.

[Delmania]

I got a present for you Andy. In handy avatar size.

Damn you.

[chargerrich]

I get why Andy gives a shit if War gets fixed and makes happy, but why does anyone else.  Is this game even relevant anymore?  It was broke from top to bottom and if people's lives and careers weren't so invested in keeping it on life support, they'd be the first to pull the plug and let their loyal fanbase come crashing down.  The only reason at this point that anyone that doesn't receive a paycheck from EA should even care about it is whether or not some valuable lesson was gleaned from this disaster, but seeing as I'm either a pessimist, or a realist, I'll be awaiting the next train wreck.

Because...

Despite the game:

1. Being far worse than even my biggest fears
2. Being around 10% of what most expected
3. Being more PVE inspired than PVP
4. Being a step BACK from DAOC
5. Being poorly coded
6. Having the worst grind since EQ1
7. Having no end game at launch
8. Being led with a myopic vision of what fun is
9. Doing literally nothing better than other games on the market

It is still a kick ass IP... I mean quite possibly the best IP available. This alone makes it worth talking about, even in a bitter "EFF YOU" kind of way.

It's cathartic... at least for me since my dumbass bought 8 collectors editions  

[BitWarrior]

Hey. Andy.

I bet a shload of people will resub if you punch this guy in the cock and get it on camera:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/2009_06/PaulWModels.jpg

And I mean hard. Hard like, the next photo is his medical documents for "Severe Cockpunching."

I would resub for 3 months to show my support for said action.

On an observational note, I like how he has archer girl holding a pair of backup sunglasses in case his current ones break from extreme horn throwing.

[Lantyssa]

I get why Andy gives a shit if War gets fixed and makes happy, but why does anyone else.  Is this game even relevant anymore?  It was broke from top to bottom and if people's lives and careers weren't so invested in keeping it on life support, they'd be the first to pull the plug and let their loyal fanbase come crashing down.  The only reason at this point that anyone that doesn't receive a paycheck from EA should even care about it is whether or not some valuable lesson was gleaned from this disaster, but seeing as I'm either a pessimist, or a realist, I'll be awaiting the next train wreck.

Because, believe it or not, they actually had the basis for a really good game.  However such ideas tend to be ignored in the subsequent rounds of "let's crib the good ideas from this awesome game" when they're in a product that isn't considered all that awesome.

In many ways it's the same "so close" feeling that led to monstrous threads about SWG.  There's also a tough balancing act to follow, but if they can follow EQ2's path instead of SWG's, they might be able to start growing again.

[Ingmar]

I get why Andy gives a shit if War gets fixed and makes happy, but why does anyone else.  Is this game even relevant anymore?  It was broke from top to bottom and if people's lives and careers weren't so invested in keeping it on life support, they'd be the first to pull the plug and let their loyal fanbase come crashing down.  The only reason at this point that anyone that doesn't receive a paycheck from EA should even care about it is whether or not some valuable lesson was gleaned from this disaster, but seeing as I'm either a pessimist, or a realist, I'll be awaiting the next train wreck.

Because Tier 1 was fun as hell. If they ever fix all the other stuff I'd resub.

[chargerrich]

[On an observational note, I like how he has archer girl holding a pair of backup sunglasses in case his current ones break from extreme horn throwing.

That.Is.Awesome.

I think it is part of the arrogant douche baggery kit...

[Fabricated]

I get why Andy gives a shit if War gets fixed and makes happy, but why does anyone else.  Is this game even relevant anymore?  It was broke from top to bottom and if people's lives and careers weren't so invested in keeping it on life support, they'd be the first to pull the plug and let their loyal fanbase come crashing down.  The only reason at this point that anyone that doesn't receive a paycheck from EA should even care about it is whether or not some valuable lesson was gleaned from this disaster, but seeing as I'm either a pessimist, or a realist, I'll be awaiting the next train wreck.

Has any company ever learned from any of the numerous train wrecks? I mean really, ever?

Don't say Blizzard either.

[Sjofn]

I got a present for you Andy. In handy avatar size.

I didn't THINK I could hate Paul more, and yet. There it is. More hate.

[Feverdream]

Has any company ever learned from any of the numerous train wrecks? I mean really, ever?

Don't say Blizzard either.

Funcom might be.  Too early to know for certain, but I am seeing the glimmer of possibility.

[tmp]

Now where did I put that starfucking emote....

[Ingmar]

Has any company ever learned from any of the numerous train wrecks? I mean really, ever?

Don't say Blizzard either.

Funcom might be.  Too early to know for certain, but I am seeing the glimmer of possibility.

Funcom is just repeating their recovery to the first time they had the problem - release buggy horrible mess, then fix it 8 months later. If their 3rd game releases cleanly, then I'll give them credit for learning, but not before.

[schild]

Now where did I put that starfucking emote....

He said STAR fucking.

Don't be sick.

[IainC]

[On an observational note, I like how he has archer girl holding a pair of backup sunglasses in case his current ones break from extreme horn throwing.

That.Is.Awesome.

I think it is part of the arrogant douche baggery kit...

Actually it's because anyone who goes even remotely near the stand gets given a pair. At Leipzig last year our booth babes had multiple pairs as did all the random marketing people who wandered in and out as well as a few boxes of them that are thrown into the crowd at random intervals.

My 2008 Leipzig Gallery should give you plenty of examples.

[Sjofn]

So I don't really understand the sunglasses thing. I understand it was, indeed, a thing but like. Why?