Blizzard hates the large and in charge!

[Paelos]

But it isn't your health. It is his health. You don't pay his medical bills, you aren't his family or his doctor, he doesn't answer to you (And realize I mean you in a very general term, not directed at you personally, shockeye) and he is responsible for his own person. The choices HE makes affects him and asking a company to be considerate of the sizes of different people isn't a crime.

I hate to call you out on this, but I will because there are many reasons why fat Americans are not good for the rest of us. It has to do with the same reason that smokers aren't good for the normal person. And I'm not talking about second-hand fat.

It is a health problem to be fat, it causes numerous things that cause people to see doctors, take medications, and visit the hospital well before "old age." This stresses the health care system extremely and in my view, like smoking, it is totally preventable. And here's the real kicker, IT DRIVES UP YOUR INSURANCE AND MINE. Were it one guy, it wouldn't be costing me or you much money, but it's not. America is getting fatter, and ignoring it or saying it's ok is NOT COOL. That doesn't mean we demean them or that we ridicule them in public. That doesn't mean that we coddle them into believing they aren't affecting people outside of themselves either.

[schild]

Having sympathy for people like this is like having sympathy for the mules in the movie "Maria Full of Grace." It takes a special brand of sympathy to take it to that level.

[Riggswolfe]

So now the forces of political correctness say I have to accept people that are eating themselves to death?

No thank you.

[personman]

Whew.

I always knew this was a community a little off the mark.  But I never thought I'd see 1964 all over again.  Nothing like a bunch of rednecks patiently explaining how Them Folks Ain't Natural.

What an amazing bunch of losers lacking any genuine self-esteem.  And I thought the Vault was the ultimate low in humanity.

There's no diet that corrects terminal character flaws.  Will power? Please.  Not a god damn one of you has shown anything close to strength of soul.

Schild please IP ban me.  It will be easy - I have a static IP.

Wow.

[personman]

I hate to call you out on this, but I will because there are many reasons why fat Americans are not good for the rest of us.

No wonder you've been unhappy these last few weeks.  You're soul finally caught up to the rest of you and it must escape.

[geldonyetich]

Heck, I'm 230 and a single XL is sufficient for me.  4X would make a fair tent for me.   That thread we're making a fuss outta has got to be a troll.

[schild]

Whew.

I always knew this was a community a little off the mark.  But I never thought I'd see 1964 all over again.  Nothing like a bunch of rednecks patiently explaining how Them Folks Ain't Natural.

What an amazing bunch of losers lacking any genuine self-esteem.  And I thought the Vault was the ultimate low in humanity.

There's no diet that corrects terminal character flaws.  Will power? Please.  Not a god damn one of you has shown anything close to strength of soul.

Schild please IP ban me.  It will be easy - I have a static IP.

Wow.

Man, what burst your happy bubble? I was just making fun of the lardass for thinking that a company should offer a shirt to such a small number of the population.

Look at it this way, if he loses the weight, he can get his shirt with the darkelf on it. Or even worse, a Tauren. Then he'll be a reasonably hefty furry. Is that better? Calm yourself. I'm not IP Banning you because you don't like a thread.

Leave on your own, but it was your choice to hop into the conversation. Multiple times. And I'm not sure what was more insulting in anyone elses posts moreso than yours.

[Paelos]

I hate to call you out on this, but I will because there are many reasons why fat Americans are not good for the rest of us.

No wonder you've been unhappy these last few weeks.  You're soul finally caught up to the rest of you and it must escape.

Seriously, what drugs are you taking? Bigots, grand sweeping statements, talking about my soul? HELLO?

NEWS FLASH: Being Fat is not like being black or retarded. It's not even in the same ballpark, so for heaven's sake stop with the melodrama. Don't sit there and go on and on like it's the Inquisition coming down on poor pitiful people whose only crime is being the way they are. Ask any doctor, for the majority of people with weight problems, being fat is a lifestyle choice. Even if it happens to be genetic, you can still control it to the point OF NOT NEEDING A 4XL SHIRT which was the whole point to begin with.

And on that note, its not like the guy sent a quiet email asking for that shirt. No no no, he painted a target right on himself by making a comment about it on the Blizzard Forums. COME ON! Did you expect a pity parade?

[schild]

JARED DIDN'T WANT UR PITY.

[Paelos]

Make it a footlong!

[SirBruce]

I admit XXXXL is pretty big.  It's just about the largest size most clothes come in, although you can get larger.  Most places have at least XXL, and if they choose to go beyond that, then usually they have XXXL and XXXXL.  So it's not an unusual thing for someone to ask for.  The guy shouldn't feel ashamed to ask and Blizzard shouldn't feel ashamed if they decide it would cost them too much to offer such sizes for too little return.

The problem was the reaction of the community, making fun of him for asking.  Personally, I get annoyed when places run out of Mediums, and I really feel sorry for the people who are looking for a S or XS and all you can find are L and XL.

Bruce

[CmdrSlack]

Actually it could be affecting me. My wife told me our health plan covers gastric bypass surgery. It also turns out a number of people in her office got the surgery without ever trying to lose any weight. They decided to take the easy way out and not dedicate themselves to being healthy on their own. Our medical insurance costs keep going up. Idiots like that cost me money. They take no responsibility for their own weight instead letting medicine do it for them.

Heh, I don't know if I'd go so far as to call gastric bypass easy.  My uncle had it recently and there have been a LOT of complications, he'll most likely be in the hospital from Thanksgiving thru New Year's as a result of the problems.

While I'll admit that some people use medical solutions (bypass, lypo, etc) as an easy out, I know that my uncle was doing the bypass for obvious medical reasons that went beyond "being too lazy."

[Lum]

What a charming thread.

I used to require 4XL shirts. Now I only require 2XL, and hopefully by next year will be down to XLs without numbers in them. So I speak with some hard-won experience.

Some basic facts which some of you may be unaware follow.

1) If you are of a size that requires a 4XL shirt, "just getting up and walking" is not a terribly easy option. You are what is called morbidly obese. Walking ANY distance is exercise at that point. Like, walking in from a parking lot. At that point, simple everyday existence becomes difficult in some respects. It is a serious health problem and medical intervention is necessary.

2) Your demeaning and ridiculing them isn't necessary. It's been covered quite adequately already. Really. Mostly IN THEIR OWN HEAD.

3) Not offering MMO players shirts up to 4XL isn't going to work out too well. Sorry, schild, but again, I speak from experience working the T-shirt counter at a game convention. I know this may not go over well, but people who play MMOs tend to be overweight. I know, it's a shock. Babydoll size S shirts for girls also tend to be in demand, so there is hope.

[Litigator]

I was contemplating a contribution to the discussion over there before the thread there got closed.  

First of all, Lum, congratulations on getting your health back.  I think you remind us all about sensitivity.  But at the same time, XXXXL is really damn big, as Schild noted.  I live in New York City, and I don't even think a person that big could exist here, with the amount of walking necessary to obtain things, and the problems intrinsic to navigating things like revolving doors and subway turnstiles at that size.  

Frankly, I suspect that, even basic tasks become extremely difficult at that size. Showering, and even using the toilet must become difficult.

And in the name of insensitivity and harsh reality obliterating the myth of dignity.

PERILS AND PROBLEMS WITH OVERSIZE CASKETS

Last time I wrote about describing the oversize casket. This article will deal with some of the more interesting problems. First some rules regarding oversize caskets:

...

Transportation and body removal

All I can say here is to ‘be creative’. I had one funeral home tell me that they enlisted the aid of the local fire department. On another occasion, the funeral home used a small front end loader tractor to lift the body. I heard of one situation where the funeral home used an "A frame" engine lift to move the body. The best thing to do is have a plan in mind before you arrive at the hospital. Good luck.

http://www.oversizecasket.com/article2.htm

http://www.oversizecasket.com/casketstyles.htm


Ye Gods!

[Arnold]

That said, I'm 6'/250, with a beer gut. Joe met me, he can vouch for me being more large than fat. I know the difference. I know I could lose a good 25-50 lbs and still be larger than the normal guy. Wide shoulders, chest, big guido build. Oh well. But I'm at 250 and wear an XL from most places and a large from some. Once I can't fit into my 3-button jacket that didn't come from a Big & Tall store, I'll know I've crossed that line.

I'm 6'1" and 240 pounds, with a flat stomach(heh, according to my BMI, I'm obese).  XL fits in most cases, but some brands of t-shirts run so small, I look like someone at a dance club with a shirt that's 2 sizes to small, so the thing will fit tight around the biceps.

I'm in the process of working down to a svelte 225, and that won't affect how XL shirts fit much, because of my shoulder width.

[Arnold]

America is getting fatter, and ignoring it or saying it's ok is NOT COOL. That doesn't mean we demean them or that we ridicule them in public. That doesn't mean that we coddle them into believing they aren't affecting people outside of themselves either.

Ever see any groups of children these days?  We are in for a world of hurt.

[Polysorbate80]

I married one of those 'big girls' too, Haemish (14 years and still going).   I'm guessing she's averaged around 250 since I've know her.  I don't know for sure, I've never once asked her weight.

Odd that I was the kind of person who made fun of the fat girls back in high school.  Karma or something, perhaps?

[Arnold]

It's odd that all you self rightous people just assume anyone needing a 4x size is due to a weight problem.

Apparently, Yao Ming plays WOW.[/quote]

[schild]

I'm in the process of working down to a svelte 225, and that won't affect how XL shirts fit much, because of my shoulder width.

That's the EXACT same problem I'm in. Though I'm not really trying to lose weight atm. I probably will soon. But for now, I'm sort of stablized. I hope. Six months says so though.

[Ironwood]

*Crimes against Humanity*

Because I would hate to post out of character.


Isn't Lum too fat for sex though ?

[stray]

I say this as someone who is a buck 25 soaking wet. A buck 30 with shoes on. I have big feet. But I married a "big girl" and she knows what it feels like to be constantly told you can't be fat and attractive.

Huh..Goes to show that no one is even close to what they appear like on the internet. I always kind of pictured you as a semi-chubby version of Reverend Horton Heat. Slick red hair, chop sideburns, flaming tongue, sweat on your brow, and being from Mississippi, dressed in a white suit like one of the characters in a Tennesee Williams play.

In other words, something resembling an angry Southern preacher. No? Either way, I bet you could incite a riot if you really wanted to.

[Calantus]

If you think the guy was asking for a size that would be too expensive to make due to low demand, that would have been the way to say it. Instead of pointing out that it's very, very fat. I don't know why you'd think you need to point that out for people. News flash: it's easy to see. And if you think comments are innocent, they never are. If all you ever got was a comment every-now-and-then it would be harmless, but it goes much further. Every comment is unlikely to be the only thing that happens that day. If there aren't other comments, teasing, looks, or laughs behind the back then that person has stayed home that day.

What do other people's mum's teach them anyway? Before I got fat I used to make comments about really fat people, but I was damn sure they couldn't hear or see me when I did so. Why? Because I was taught from a very young age that it is rude to comment on people. Whether they be fat, disabled, ugly, or whatever. I just think it's amazing that other people don't think that way. To me it's a very core principle, you don't hurt other people's feeling just to make a joke, impress your friends, or whatever. And you don't stare just because you find the spectable amazing/amusing.

And if you think that your comments help then think again. I hardly think mentally abusing people for years is a good way to make them change their lifestyle. And I have never heard of someone who lost alot of weight because people made comments. Comments work on the people who could stand to lose 20 pounds, they don't work on people who could stand to lose 100. Most reasons are to get the women/men, health reasons, the weight gets annoying (my reason, a flight of stairs did me in and I was just sick of it), or you just look at yourself and don't like what you see.

And there is nothing wrong with being fat. Insurance going up is insurance companies being greedy. If they can refuse people based on medical conditions they can refuse/raise prices for the morbidly obese too. They only don't because there's more money in just hiking prices. For a while I was "okay" with being the size I was. I wanted to be thinner but I wasn't too bothered by my weight (besides the comments). I liked my lifestyle and there is nothing wrong with that. Then I decided I wanted a new one with enough conviction to lose the weight and that doesn't make me a better person than who I was then.

I've always thought that there's nothing intinsicly wrong with being racist/homophobic/bigotted in any way provided it never hurts anybody. As long as you don't treat people badly because of it, or refuse them service/jobs then it doesn't matter. Lots of times you have to pretend you like people despite not liking them (like my manager, the bitch) or not approving of them. Why not apply that discretion to everybody who doesn't go out of their way to piss you off? Just because they're not your boss doesn't mean they don't deserve the same outward respect.

[Big Gulp]

Big women are beautiful, and not just when you are drunk

I really don't want to be harsh here, but no they aren't.  They can have a pretty face, sure, but that asset is completely undermined by being fat.  Now granted, I don't speak for all manhood, but the number of guys out there who find fat women attractive are miniscule compared to the number of guys who categorically don't.

You sound like good people, so I'm really not trying to be harsh, but I can't just let something that sounds like a total untruth go unchallenged.

[Calantus]

Big women are beautiful, and not just when you are drunk

I really don't want to be harsh here, but no they aren't.  They can have a pretty face, sure, but that asset is completely undermined by being fat.  Now granted, I don't speak for all manhood, but the number of guys out there who find fat women attractive are miniscule compared to the number of guys who categorically don't.

You sound like good people, so I'm really not trying to be harsh, but I can't just let something that sounds like a total untruth go unchallenged.

Well, surely it has to depend on how big. There's a point where someone is too fat to be attractive to any normal person, just like there's a point when someone is too skinny or too muscly. Before you hit that point there's potential for hotness. If she was saying you can be too big to walk and still be hot you could call her out, but "big" doesn't say much of anything.

EDIT: Normally I don't comment on people's personal avatars (although I think I might have commented on Bruce's at some point), but... hmmm, how to put this? How about "there is nothing wrong with that picture".

[Big Gulp]

Before you hit that point there's potential for hotness. If she was saying you can be too big to walk and still be hot you could call her out, but "big" doesn't say much of anything.

Okay, easy rule of thumb, then.  When women go over the 200 lb. mark the potential for hotness is gone, at least as far as I'm concerned.  I may very well be a shallow son of a bitch, but sorry, that's how I see it.

Now that that's out of the way, I'd in all seriousness like to ask folks like Lum who have gotten to the point of needing the XXXXL's how it happened.  When I see someone that big it just seems almost like they had to work to get there.   I can see how a spare tire or bigger hips can creep up on someone, but to get to that size almost necessitates labor on your part.  Very glad to hear you're getting that monkey off your back, though, man.

[Calantus]

Yay, the universal past-time: picking on fat people.

Get your past-times straight. Even the ridiculously massive pointed and laughed at Napolean Dynamite.

And I'm talking about people in the crowd.

I guess. But I just never saw much nerd bashing growing up so it doesn't register as highly to my mind (except for one guy but that started because he was an asshole). I think that either the shows we get from america are overdone, or you guys have a much more active anti-nerd vibe than we do here. I always find it amusing when I hear all the terms like "jocks" and "socs" (sp? the one that comes from socials). Maybe you guys just have a more pronounced social segregation than we do here.

Also, some cultures highly repect intellectual pursuits, so "globally" is a little more accurate. There are also places where being fat is seen as a good thing (sumos, and some african cultures), but they are more rare.

[Joe]

Like Lum, I used to be a big ol' Fatty McFatfat. I was weighing in at over 300 pounds (by the time I found a gym I was down to 315 after dieting for a month or two) and wearing a XXXL shirt comfortably, and really putting a stretch on my XXL wardrobe.

E3 2k3 pic:


That's not the most descriptive pic, but all the others I have from E3 are very grainy.

I didn't take a lot of photographs back then, understandably so. It's easier to not have to look at yourself when you just can't stand the way you appear in freeze frame. You can lie to yourself in front of a mirror. You can suck in your gut, flex your muscles, prepare yourself. When it's just a drunken photo, you see yourself in a more realistic light. After getting a few of those pictures in my hands, I decided it was time to make use of my teenage metabolism before I grew too old to actively work out.

So I hit the gym at 18 and 315 pounds. Six months later, I was down to about 270, and XXL shirts draped around me comfortably. Another month of strenuous exercize, two cans of tunafish and a multivitamin per day later, I was down to 240. Where I live now has no serious gym equipment, and I don't feel like paying $60/month to work out, so I took up racquetball with some buddies from work. I'm now down to about 210, but with the holidays here, I'm anticipating either moving up to 220 or down to 200, because lately it seems whatever I eat ends up causing me to lose weight.

Me ~two weeks ago:
http://waterthread.org/personal/joestand3.jpg">

I'm clearly not where I want to be (170 is a good number for my 5'10" Sicilian frame), but if I can keep up with racquetball and trying to eat right, I should by there by summer. I usually wear a large t-shirt size, but the variety of sizing options puts me between a medium and XL. The European t-shirt I have is an XL. The company polo shirt is a medium, and it kinda binds around my biceps. The distance around my chest is 38 inches, and my waist is 38/40 depending on how serious I've been about not eating like shit in a given week. This is down from god only knows on my chest and a 50/52 inch waist.

Since losing weight, I still feel for fat people, but I'm far less sympathetic. I have fat friends. I still try to judge people on their personal merit. However, it's not hard to lose weight. Genetic conditions aside, no one under 30 has an excuse to be 100 pounds overweight. It's easy to get there, and even easier to ignore, but being a prisoner of your own flesh SUCKS, and the people who try to remain blissfully ignorant to what they're missing are deluding themselves to the point of it being a pathology. You shouldn't be hated or discriminated against because you're fat. But you should also be actively trying to lose weight.

People look down on fat people for the same reason they look down on smokers: it's all willpower. You're a victim to the bad choices you've made, and your health and personal appearance has suffered because of those bad choices. And giving up the terrible foods that put you there is about as easy as giving up smoking; you just have to WANT to stop eating fast food and cake after every meal, just like you have to WANT to ignore the cute drunk chick offering you a menthol cigarette at a party. The sad fact is both smoking and eating are fun and provide enjoyable chemical experiences in our brains, and most people don't actively want to give up those feelings, even if it is making them miserable. Welcome to addiction.

Of course, people DO get fed up. People in this thread, me. It just takes dedication, like anything else. Fat people (and thin people) always ask me what I did to lose so much weight, and the answer I have always sound a lot more cynical than it is: "Eat less and exercize more."

That's all it takes. And you'll like being able to do pushups without reaching for a defibrillator.

[Reg]

I hope this forum is still going in 10 or 15 years when all of the skinny high school/college kids around here find their metabolisms suddenly slowing down. By that age the empathy gland has usually matured as well.

[Big Gulp]

I hope this forum is still going in 10 or 15 years when all of the skinny high school/college kids around here find their metabolisms suddenly slowing down. By that age the empathy gland has usually matured as well.

We're not talking about having a gut, we're talking about obesity.  There is a difference between the two.

[WindupAtheist]

And there is nothing wrong with being fat.

We'll have that put on your tombstone after you die of a stroke at age 32, or get harpooned to death by some vacationing Eskimos, or whatever.

[Margalis]

Ha ha, look at those cute rosy red cheeks! (Random thoughts follow)

I used to be really skinny, then I started working out, it's pretty amazing how people treat you differently. I remember when I came back to College as a sophomore people kept asking me if I was taller, showing me more respect, and just generally treating me MUCH better because I had put on 15 pounds of muscle or so. It was like some nature channel special about Baboons or some shit like that, I moved up closer to alpha male status.
---

Kids today do look like a bunch of chubsters to me. I would guess that 40-50% of the kids I see walking around in the middle-high school age bracket are overweight. Which is strange considering how looking down on fat people really is pretty socially acceptable in our culture.

How do you have a culture that glorifies skinny people and then produces overweight peope?
---

As far as the guy who wanted that size t-shirt, the correct response is "we have no plans to make shirts of that size" and leave it at that.
---

2 cans of tuna a day is a lot of Mercury.
---

I don't really like making fun of any group of people for any reason, but I have no problem making fun of specific people. If the worst thing about someone is that they are morbidly obese they're better off than most of the people around.

On the list of character flaws overeating is extremely obvious, but a lot less worse than tons of other negative traits. I really don't give a shit how fat someone is, and I don't see why other people would either. Being smarmy or arrogant or obnoxious is a character flaw as well. All the "just use willpower" people could be using willpower to fix whatever problems they have.

Why is the other guy eating so much? Well, why are you being such a prick?  I suppose being a prick isn't something other people can spot from acress a room, but it's no better.

[SirBruce]

I can tell you as a skinny person that lack of exercise is a big factor.  I've been small most of my life; I was under 5 foot when I entered high school and weight less than 100 lbs.  When I hit my growth spurt and shot up to 6'0", all it did was make me tall and skinny instead of short and skinny.

During my 20s I was mostly 130 - 135.  I never ate a lot; my caloric intake was pretty average.  I didn't exercise purposefully, but I burned enough calories just by biking around town and running around the office fixing people's computers and installing new servers in racks.  The past few years, since I've started spending most of my days sitting in front of the computer, I would say I eat even less than I did before, but lack of physical activity (and a bad knee for a while) have given me a gut and pushed me up above 140.  Now, if that 140 were muscle, I'd be ecstatic, but since it's collecting as a flabby tire around my middle, it's not good.  And so now I'm starting to exercise more to burn that off.

Anyway, I do think it's sad that many of you folks were all set to make fun of fat folks, and then when it turned out people like Lum and Joe and schild had also struggled with weight problems, people are rethinking their attitudes.  Gods, are you people so shallow that you can only muster up compassion for people you actually know?  Get some humanity.

Bruce

[Margalis]

I don't think compassion is the right word. People don't need to show compassion, they just need to stop being assholes - there's a big difference.

As far as people rethinking attitudes, I doubt that is happening. Some people don't understand anything other than a punch in the face sadly.

[SirBruce]

I don't think compassion is the right word. People don't need to show compassion, they just need to stop being assholes - there's a big difference.

You may be right.  I'm so used to some people being assholes here that the simple lack of that appears to be compassionate by comparison.

As far as people rethinking attitudes, I doubt that is happening. Some people don't understand anything other than a punch in the face sadly.

Sadly, I agree with you here, but I still hold out hope for some people.

Bruce

[stray]

I don't think compassion is the right word. People don't need to show compassion, they just need to stop being assholes - there's a big difference.

You may be right.  I'm so used to some people being assholes here that the simple lack of that appears to be compassionate by comparison.

You bring your problems with people around here on yourself. It even seems like you're goading them at times. Now you say you want compassion? Nonsense.

I think that a person who'd want a little more compassion around here would at the very least use a little tact, and try their hardest not give anyone fuel to add to the fire. But all you do is the complete opposite. Everything you've said here is said purposely, knowing full well what would happen, so don't give anyone this bullshit about compassion. I think what you really want is attention. Good or bad.

*But* if you really want compassion, then why are you here? Surely you'd be better off somewhere else, right? This is the internet for crissakes. You have several thousand options. Why torture yourself? Does compassion only mean something to you when it's from the people who are the least likely to give it? If so, then yeah, I can honestly say that you have my compassion....Because it doesn't get any more sad than that.

Feel better now?