Anno 1404: Dawn of Discovery

[LK]

You can configure the non-campaign modes to remove AI opponents. It's totally up to you.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, but I plan on finishing the campaign before I do any mucking about. Plus I didn't HATE it, so I won't mind if it pops up, I just won't be doing any KILL EVERYONE scenarios. I skip those in pretty much everything I play. 

[LK]

Last missions of the campaign actually focus less and less on combat. The final mission has zero combat. It's all about trading your way to victory. The game really does hold your hand, but doing everything on Hard and with all the side missions isn't THAT easy.

Not once during my 14-16 hour playing session did I have nothing to do. Growing and meeting the needs of the settlement was a full time job until I was ready to cal it quits.

[LK]

Jesus christ this game has me by the balls. This game oozes many things I'd associate with Blizzard.

I still have a bitch of a time orienting my fields when planting them, but other than that the interface is just plain good, as schild mentioned. I've been referring this to all my friends.

[AcidCat]

Well I downloaded the demo to check it out, but for some reason the game took issue with my mouse, where the pointer was displaying half a screen away from where the game thought it was. Needless to say, I never got out of the option menus. So I just deleted it, not going to spend god knows how long troubleshooting a demo I can only play for an hour.

[Yoru]

I need a fucking table of what outputs what at which rates and so on. Monitoring all the little arrows drives me batshit.

Also, I have no idea why, but stone keeps disappearing out of my stockpiles; do citizens upgrading to patricians consume stone or something?

[Tairnyn]

Also, I have no idea why, but stone keeps disappearing out of my stockpiles; do citizens upgrading to patricians consume stone or something?

Yes, and it's very frustrating when the things they need require stone to build. I usually block ascension rights for a few to get the economy up and running before I set them loose.

[Yoru]

Someone needs to make a little webapp like they used to have for ATITD: punch in a commodity and it lists all the things that produce/consume it and at what rates.

[Viin]

Upgrades for population take stone? Had no clue.

If I need something for a quest I usually just block the consumption of that item, through the 'needs' window. If you click on the part of the needs graph that represents the item (say, leather jerkins for patricians) it'll keep them from consuming them and start lowering their satisfaction rating.

Weird that it doesn't show you that you need stone to upgrade though .... I'll have to watch for that.

[LK]

This was funny. I was playing Master Builder scenario and my Envoys needed Perfume to advance, and the peaceful, weak, non-militaristic nun AI opponent had conquered the only big island where it'd be feasible to make roses.

So, well, she had to die. Nice introduction to combat. Different types of units are very very important it seems. Cannons are the only unit that can hit all but Keeps out of range. Miners take down walls, Trebauchts buildings so your troops can move into place. Orient camps are good because of their smaller size, but if you have the space, you want the Big camps.

It all works very very very well, but keeping track of your military units can be a problem sometimes.

[Tairnyn]

If you click on a house that is ready to upgrade there's a small scroll icon in the upper right that tells you what materials it is waiting on. The problem is that you don't really see this unless you lack the materials or there's a whole bunch of houses waiting. Off the top of my head I think it's (edit: fixed, thanks Lorekeep):

Peasant -> Citizen: 1 wood, 1 tools
Citizen -> Patrician: 1 wood, 1 tools, 4 stone
Patrician -> Noble: 1 wood, 1 tools, 3 stone, 3 glass

One thing I find frustrating is trying to set up a trade route in which I control how much material is left behind for the source colony. If I want one island to produce enough materials for two islands to share I find it difficult to keep the trade route from pulling too much from the source unless I use it at a very predictable rate on both. Worse yet, if the target island is full then the resources stay on the boat and prevent it from picking up other things I want it to transport. For example, I find tools are a feast or famine situation and I usually just make tools on any islands I'm actively building to avoid having to mess around with transferring them all the time.

[LK]

It's 4 stone for Citizen -> Patrician and 3 Stone, 3 Glass for Nobles. Given that stone is also used for defenses, storage, and all sorts of construction, you should get as much of it as you can. Wood and Stone are two resources you should over-do in the early stages. Tools Production is usually sufficient to have one Ore Mine, One Smelter, One Coal Source, and 2 Tools Workshops to keep you supplied.

[LK]

From the Steam Forums, pretty useful and something I've already guesstimated:

Rope needs 1 hemp farm
Weaver needs 2 hemp farms
Smelter needs 1 ore mine / 1 coal maker
Tools needs half a smelter
Weapons needs 1 smelter
Bread needs 2 crop farms / 1 mill
Tannery needs two pig farms / half a salt mine
Brewery needs 1 herb garden / 1 crop farm
Salt works needs 1 salt mine / 1 coal maker
Book maker needs 1 lumberjack / 1 paper mill / 1 indigo farm
Butcher needs 2 cattle farms / half a salt works
Carpet maker needs 1 indigo farm / 1 silk farm
Mosaic workshop needs 1 quartz quarry / 2 clay pits
Glass maker needs 1 forest glassworks / half a quartz quarry
Coffee roaster needs 2 coffee plantations

I think the Paper Mill is off because a Paper Mill produces a fuck ton of paper. 3 Coffee Roasters are enough to support a super large Envoy population. Perfume requires a *massive* amount of roses though.

I think also:

Marzipan requires 2 Sugar Cane, 1 Sugar Refinery, 2 Almonds, 1 Confectionary

[Ceryse]

Seeing the trend in this thread, I actually bothered to get this game from Steam. Huge mistake; I keep falling into the pattern of wanting to finish setting this production chain, or that new settlement up, before I stop; leading to 6+ hour long sessions. Been awhile since I've gotten sucked into a game like that, and really wasn't expecting it since I didn't really take to the first Anno game. But finding suchandsuch person (knights, nun, spy.. whatever) when you have a large sprawling, developed island? That quest can go fuck itself.

I haven't really done much other than the first couple Campaign missions and several goes at the Elector scenario, to get the hang of things... always seems to be more stuff I learn every game about how to go about things. I can't even fathom, at the moment, throwing in combat.. especially given how shitty my harbour areas tend to be designed. I do wish there was a way to slow the game down as a toggle rather than a keep-the-button-pressed, though.

[Tairnyn]

After getting through Elector I've made 2 tries at the Master Builder scenario investing a total of about 10-12 hours and I'm about to restart on my third try. I came to the horrible realization that you actually need 3500 nobles ON THE SAME ISLAND to finish the cathedral, which seems really difficult (if not impossible) if you decide to build your city center on a medium sized island. In addition, if the computer player places a market on an island you can't get access to it without military action so there needs to be an early push to 'tag' islands early that you plan to use or else risk not having room for production.

[Sky]

In addition, if the computer player places a market on an island you can't get access to it without military action so there needs to be an early push to 'tag' islands early that you plan to use or else risk not having room for production.

I don't remember if that was the exact mechanic, but I do remember the early push being important in the first couple games, too.

[LK]

After getting through Elector I've made 2 tries at the Master Builder scenario investing a total of about 10-12 hours and I'm about to restart on my third try. I came to the horrible realization that you actually need 3500 nobles ON THE SAME ISLAND to finish the cathedral, which seems really difficult (if not impossible) if you decide to build your city center on a medium sized island. In addition, if the computer player places a market on an island you can't get access to it without military action so there needs to be an early push to 'tag' islands early that you plan to use or else risk not having room for production.

Yeah, I had a nun so she was lightly defended and I steam rolled her. The island they start on should be of a decent size though. I just finished Master Builder but what really bugs me is that these "find the little dude" quests can be so damn frustrating and time consuming in large cities. In the Campaign it helps you by pin-pointing their general location, but in the Continuous Mode it'll only pinpoint the first guy's location. After that they could be *ANYWHERE.* One time I just saved my game and demolished my entire city until I had a general idea where they were.

Seeing the trend in this thread, I actually bothered to get this game from Steam. Huge mistake; I keep falling into the pattern of wanting to finish setting this production chain, or that new settlement up, before I stop; leading to 6+ hour long sessions. Been awhile since I've gotten sucked into a game like that, and really wasn't expecting it since I didn't really take to the first Anno game. But finding suchandsuch person (knights, nun, spy.. whatever) when you have a large sprawling, developed island? That quest can go fuck itself.

Oh hey.   Me too. But I actually managed to get to 10 hours. Liam Neeson (god damn it schild) asks me if my family is worried about me. I knew the answer and kept playing.

By the way, the VO in the game is above and beyond what I've come to expect from video games.

[LK]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=909970

Christ.

[Yegolev]

At least you know you're not the worst one.

[LK]

What I see them doing there is making one or two slots appear out of the influence area. It might take a 5% - 10% hit in efficiency, but if it buys you an extra farm from space conservation, then it's worth it. I always try to make all the slots appear in all the influence area.

[Sjofn]

I've only gotten the four hour warning from Liam, because it resets when you start a new part of the campaign. 

I'm finally going to put on my big girl pants and start messing with the scenarios. Watch out, world!

[LK]

Make sure to go in order. They are a good introduction to certain mechanics.

[Jobu]

Thanks for this thread, I never would have thought of buying this without it. I too am gripped by my balls with it.

Anyways. When placing farming stuff (cider, goats milk, hemp, etc) the building itself has a number next to the farm fences.  I found in a few cases I could cram more than that number in, and it would say 6/4 or 4/3 for example. Does that make any difference?

Secondly... when placing workshop style objects (linen shirts, ropes, flour, etc) the relevant resource buildings will highlight green if it's in the little influence radius of the workshop. But I can place the workshop anywhere in my influence and it still plugs away making whatever it's supposed to. So is there any benefit to placing, say, a ropeshop so that it highlights as many hemp farms as possible, or is it the same as just sticking it anywhere that's convenient?

[Yoru]

Manufactories (e.g. rope shops) that highlight resource buildings (e.g. hemp farms) don't rely on market cart deliveries. They instead dispatch little walking dudes to get goods as they become available/needed. This is why you see near-instant movement of goods if you sandwich your manufactories between your resource buildings.

Realizing this has substantially changed my layouts and vastly improved the efficiency of my supply lines.

[Ceryse]

Right; if they're highlighting the resource building (hemp farms for the weaver, for example), they don't tie up carts and it should be more efficient. I've found, however, that occasionally having a few production buildings just crowding a marketplace as more efficient -- if you can't sandwich the weavers close enough to the hemp fields, for example, it can be less efficient due to walking time, or how it can work with the overall lay-out.

I'm starting to make massive use of secondary and tertiary islands for production (a island devoted to iron ore/steel/weapons/tools, one for farming, etc) and then shipping finished products to my islands with population on them; which lets me maximize population on those islands (more room for the bloody houses), and often can net more income on trading runs from AI players (they seem to have a cap on what they can spend at each port, not total, so if you have a massive surplus of something and its spread over three ports, they'll buy from three ports, thus buying more).

My main problems right now are my harbour (they look so ugly and inefficient.. small storehouses keep screwing up the tiles available for me) and getting my timing down for expansion and, still, tweaking my initial builds (I've noticed AI players tend to go nuts on wood production early, and lose a lot of time on getting tool production going because of that, whereas I try to rush some tool production as tools often limit my growth first, even with buying them from the default orient and Lord AI players).

Oh, and Jobu; if you place 5 hemp fields for a single hemp farm (making it 5/4) it won't help at all, unless at 4/4 it was running at less than 100% efficiency.

[bhodi]

I have real trouble with the trade routes and goods. For a game based on it they sure when to great lengths to hide critical information.

You can tell general trade ships to keep X number of goods in your local warehouse and buy anything more. You can't seem to do the same thing for your trade routes. I want to be able to keep my goods balanced on each island, have a few of wood,tools just in case I need them or I want to expand. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this unless I've totally missed it.

Instead, the best you can do is "Pick up X from here and put it down here". Which is great, if there was ANY WAY AT ALL to track what your consumption figures are over time. It's extremely crude and there's no way to refine it beyond guesswork. Even the arrows "your storehouse is filling up" is useless because it takes into account large stores that you sell or transfer so you can expand to new islands, so it'll say your stock is decreasing when in fact you might have a large surplus.

Extremely frustrating. How do you all deal with this? Also, is there a way to add more resources in the upper left? I really do start to care about, say, food, and I don't like my first indication of issues being a giant warning that there is 0 fish in my storehouse.

Oh, what's the point of the eyedropper/clone tool? You can only clone a single building? I was hoping it was kind of like a stamp tool where you could stamp out a specific field/road/house configuration block.

[Yoru]

The supply/demand stuff is really crude and I think that's one of the game's big UI failings. For industrial supply/demand, I ended up using Lorekeep's list from this thread and it's worked pretty well. The only industrial goods I run a huge surplus of are salt and paper.

For city-based supply and demand, I build up my supplies until they hit maximum. Then I check back every so often; if the supply has dipped more than 5 units below maximum, it's time to build another supply chain for that good. Tedious, but it works for now; I've only just gotten to the level where you have nobles and envoys to maintain.

The low granularity of the automated ship transport tools has kept me with one main island that produces the main construction goods, with multiple outlying islands. Each outlying island contains 1 or more full supply chains for some city commodity, with the exception of my Oriental city island - that one contains the Oriental city, its basic supporting industries and one outlying island to produce coffee. I manually haul over tools every so often.

I've also found that, even though you can build several harbormaster's wharves around a single island, automated ships will insist on going to your warehouse. This makes warehouse placement on an island vital, as sailing around a large island can considerably slow down a supply route. Building extra harbormaster's wharves does make your life easier when you're dealing with your manually-controlled ships though. My main island has 3 of the things arranged in a triangle pattern around the edges of the island, so I don't have to sail terribly far around it regardless of the angle I'm sailing from.

edit: grammar

[LK]

When you get an island full of Patricians, your paper stocks will start to run thin.

Bread, Beer and Wine are the major items for Occident that require massive quantities that you should really think about running a massive surplus of. It helps to have extra Candlelabras and Glasses too, if you can manage it. Perfume and Carpets for Orient. Perfume is a bitch to get rolling.

Wood production *is* critical at the start. You need a lot of wood to get everything going for all the basic industries before Tools Production kicks in. I usually start with 5 Wood shops located away from my central house location. I pump as many tools as necessary from the NPC to get Citizens rolling and get the Tools Production going.

Warehouse placement isn't as critical as you make it out to be. You need to build Harbor Master offices around your island and tell your ships to go there instead of the warehouse. Multiple piers also need to be built if you have multiple ships attempting to access one port. It doesn't hurt if you are being attacked to have a repair crane at each port as well. They will automatically go to it as everything routes through the Warehouse / Harbor Master Office you've selected.

[ffc]

I'm playing this on Wii (anyone?  anyone?) and really enjoying it.

It's definitely an Anno-lite console/Wii "streamlined" experience but in a good way while keeping the same addicting economic engine building gameplay as the real deal.  The past several nights I wanted to play for 30 minutes and 2 hours disappeared. 

I'm about halfway through the campaign story where King George basically keeps sending his two sons Goofus and Gallant out to build stuff.  We play as Gallant.  I have yet to see any combat other than me running away from pirates corsairs.  A small surprise is the quality of the voice work and funny banter between the characters.

The only negative is sailing.  I hate everything about the boats - clicking on them, moving them around, fleeing from corsairs, etc.  The rest of the game is great. 

[LK]

Notes:

Working with the Corsairs will eventually unlock a quest, "The Feast", that results in a permanent alliance.

Building a Mosque eventually unlocks a quest, "Duty", which requires you to kill 50 Corsair ships, which ALSO has the side effect of permanently forcing them from the region (I think!).

[schild]

Building a Mosque eventually unlocks a quest, "Duty", which requires you to kill 50 Corsair ships, which ALSO has the side effect of permanently forcing them from the region (I think!).

In the continuous game, if you kill enough corsair/pirates, you'll eventually just get a quest to kill a small platoon of them to get a permanent alliance and remove their ships from the high seas.

[LK]

There is a bug where you are given quests to kill Corsairs whilst allied with them. That's where Letter of Marques come in. The game does have a number of bugs that could corrupt a game session's stability.

[Draegan]

I just watched a video on Youtube.  Looks good.  Watching it for 15 seconds it reminds me of Caesar II.

[Ceryse]

I have real trouble with the trade routes and goods. For a game based on it they sure when to great lengths to hide critical information.

You can tell general trade ships to keep X number of goods in your local warehouse and buy anything more. You can't seem to do the same thing for your trade routes. I want to be able to keep my goods balanced on each island, have a few of wood,tools just in case I need them or I want to expand. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this unless I've totally missed it.

Instead, the best you can do is "Pick up X from here and put it down here". Which is great, if there was ANY WAY AT ALL to track what your consumption figures are over time. It's extremely crude and there's no way to refine it beyond guesswork. Even the arrows "your storehouse is filling up" is useless because it takes into account large stores that you sell or transfer so you can expand to new islands, so it'll say your stock is decreasing when in fact you might have a large surplus.

Extremely frustrating. How do you all deal with this? Also, is there a way to add more resources in the upper left? I really do start to care about, say, food, and I don't like my first indication of issues being a giant warning that there is 0 fish in my storehouse.

I haven't found keeping islands topped off all too hard, once I discarded the idea of more than one or two population centers. There's really no way, in-game, to easily track consumption of goods by your population, other than experience. I have been using http://www.anno1404-rechner.de/ though, as it'll calculate how many of what you need for however much population figures you drop into it. Not English, but its easy enough to muck with.

One of the things I've started to do with my supply runs is to add an AI stop over at the end of the route to drop off any goods the ship is still carrying; if the port the ship was supposed to supply has filled its storage space with the good, then it can dump the excess on the AI. You won't get a great price for the stuff, but it helps keep things from getting bogged down without worrying too much about micromanagement.

I also generally top off each island with the building resources if I notice one getting low, using the Flagship which I keep in manual control for quests and personally running goods here and there.

As for adding resources to the upper left, you can. Just dragging the resource icon up there should work; much like you can plug things into the two hotbars to quickly select what to build and such without having to go into the build menus.

[Tarami]

Unless you click the link to get it in English.

http://www.anno1404-rechner.de/index.php?lang=en