Hot Stove talk

[Kenrick]

St. Louis is a playah.

ESPN Radio just broke that St. Louis aquired A's pitcher Mark Mulder.

"Breaking News

Mulder to St. Louis

The Big Three is now down to one. ESPN's Peter Gammons reports A's ace Mark Mulder has been traded to the Cardinals for Danny Haren, Kiki Calero and Daric Barton. Earlier in the week, Oakland sent Tim Hudson to Atlanta."

[Shockeye]

Zito to Boston in 3... 2... 1...

[SirBruce]

St. Louis is a playah.

ESPN Radio just broke that St. Louis aquired A's pitcher Mark Mulder.

"Breaking News

Mulder to St. Louis

The Big Three is now down to one. ESPN's Peter Gammons reports A's ace Mark Mulder has been traded to the Cardinals for Danny Haren, Kiki Calero and Daric Barton. Earlier in the week, Oakland sent Tim Hudson to Atlanta."

Woohoo!

What's up with Oakland?  They're just throwing away all of their talent.  Oh well, who cares, at least we have another ace.

Now we need a better #3.

Bruce

[Trippy]

ESPN Radio just broke that St. Louis aquired A's pitcher Mark Mulder.

W T F ?!?!?

*Sigh* It's going to be a long year next year.

[HaemishM]

I was floored by the Mulder trade. I mean, those are decent relievers, but holy shit, they didn't get one starting prospect. Who the fuck is going to start for the A's this year? Zito, Harden, ????? I bet Eric Chavez is shitting bullets right now.

Pedro is a cock. Film at 11.

The Giants have done more than I thought, what with Vizquel and Matheny signings, both good defensive signings. But yeah, they need someone to hit behind King Juicehead.

I guess the Cubs will replace Clement with Ryan Dempster or Glendon Rusch. Not too much dropoff, which won't mean shit if they can't score runs consistently. Leadoff hitter, plzkthx. Fuck, get Alfonso Soriano or something.

You know, last year, looking at the Yankees at this time, it was scary. But then their pitching staff turned out to be sitting ducks, and by the time the playoffs came around, I wasn't sure they could beat anyone based on their shitty starting pitching.

[Shannow]

Cant resist a good baseball thread.

- If the prospects the A's acquired work out Billy Beane will continue looking like a genius, he already has  a cpl of soon to be great arms in Harden and the other kid + Zito is still there. If they dont then everyone will forget the term moneyball.

- Beane was never gonna trade any of the big three to an AL team.

- I think Anaheim will miss Eckstein, he was the 'heart and soul' guy of that team. They are doing there best to be the YAnkees of the west though.

- Baseball ppl are rubbishing the LA GM for pulling out of the RJ deal. Wtf why? This was a horrible deal for LA, they were getting Javier V and a cpl of ordinary yankee prospects for Brad Penny, Shawn Green and Kaz Ishii...how were they ever involved in the first place??!??!?

- Arizone is talking of keeping Johnson for the start of the season if not the entirity of it. The Yankee rotation is looking rather ordinary without the Big Unit.

- Red Sox analysis. Heres the optimistic view - Clement pitches a little better, will get better run support and better bullpen help and will be a 16-18 game winner. Wells back stays healthy and wins 16 or so. Wade Miller , if his shoulder is alright could be the steal of the season hes a fantastic number 1A pitcher if healthy. Schillings ankle is alright. Also if Mantei is healthy they have another live arm to relieve Timlin of setup duty at times.
The lineup is virtually the same (Varitek has agreed to a 4 year/40mil deal today) with an improvement at SS with Rent-a-rear. Cabrera had a nice 3 months but Edgar will be a very nice hitter in the 2 slot. The rest of the lineup is back including a healthy Trot Nixon for a full season. They'll be a little weaker on the bench without Kapler and Roberts (though Payton will fill in altright).

Still there are a lot of ifs in that rotation, health and performance wise. If the ifs turn out good the Yankees are in a boatload of trouble, if they don't then the Sox are in a world of hurt.

Yankees - Lineup is practically the same, they'll score a lot of runs. Whether they come back in as many as they did last year remains to be seen (that was more from having some mediocre starting pitching against bad teams than great hitting). Rivera is a year older and who knows with that bullpen. The rotation is the interesting thing:

Yankees with Randy Johnson = better than the Red Sox.
Yankees without Randy Johnson = worse than the Red Sox.

Mussina has gotten worse each year and you never know which Moose will turn up month to month..the fantastic no.1 or the mediocre no 3.?

Will Pavano pull a Javier Vazquez? He's had one good year and has never pitched in the AL..He did peform well in the playoffs in '03 though. (He is overpaid at 10 mill, so is Clement, Benson, Ortiz and pretty much any pitcher who got signed this offseason. Stupid GMs, stupid owners.)

Jaret Wright? Kevin Brown? Javier Vazquez? ....HEH.


And lastly, bye bye Pedro, the Red Sox didn't disrespect you, your just a lying moron who cant keep his mouth shut. Trust me most people are not missing you up here, me particulary because of your complete inability to beat the Yankees in any game after June in the last 3 years.
If you'd just said 'The Mets made a better offer, I'll miss Boston but at the end of the day they came through with the dollars' we'd have been fine but you couldn't resist bullshitting and flat out lying to the press about how 'bad' the Red Sox disrespected you. Well bye, we'll enjoy watching you toss 85mph fastballs in '06 and having an era over 5.

[HaemishM]

Kevin Brown likely won't pitch for the Yankees again. The rotation is decent. Vazquez has Cy Young stuff, but he just doesn't pitch well in NY and I don't get that. The Yankees offense might be better this year with Martinez at 1st and Womack at 2nd.

[Shannow]

Um Womack and Martinez are not going to be that much better than Cairo and Olerud/Clark combinations and who knows how Sheffield will do without his clear and cream.

I wonder if Brown is going to just retire, Id doubt the Yankees will pitch him and no one is going to take that salary even if the Yankees are paying most of it.

Oh I did forget Beltran, now if he goes to the Yankees that will truely make that lineup scary.

[HaemishM]

Womack has speed. The Cubs had him when he was injured, and had they kept him, he'd have been the leadoff hitter they lacked this year. Speed kills. Especially in front of those bombers.

What's the over/under on Giambi suiting up for the Yanks this year?

[Margalis]

I think Giambi will play for the Yankees next year, and Brown will not.

Brown screwed the team with his hand-breaking idiocy, and he flat out sucked. I'm sure he's built up some ill-will and he never had a lot of buy-in to begin with.

Giambi at least had a couple years to develop a following, I'm sure they'll at least try to work him in somehow if he can come back at all. But with his health problems now who knows.

[Madman]

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

That was my reaction when I read the Cardinals signed Eckstein. I have no fear of the Cardinals this season because of Eckstein. He is a sub-par player no matter what his stats say. Sure he may have character, but character doesn't play the field.

Although I will admit that my bias against Eckstein is due to the reaction of someone drafting him in our fantasy game.

[Kenrick]

Things not looking too good in Astroland right now.  It hurts a lot to lose someone like Carlos Beltran, but at the same time I'm not sure he's worth the $$$$$$$$$$ it would have taken to keep him.

What's also disappointing is that Roger Clemens' chances of returning are now next to nothing.  There's still a chance he'll come back (which would give us a respectable 1-2-3 punch of Oswalt--Pettitte--Clemens), but at this point it's not looking likely.

This has been the worst offseason in recent Astros history.  Lost Jeff Kent, lost Carlos Beltran, Lance Berkman blew out his knee playing flag football, and now Clemens is probably not coming back.  Opening day 2005 line-up looks something more like a rebuilding team than the team that was 3 innings away from the World Series in '04.

/sadf

With all that said, I'm going to laugh my ass off when Carlos Beltran realizes his slimeball agent got him to sign for SEVEN YEARS (NO TRADE!) with the Mets!  HAHAHAHA!  He's going to be miserable.  Maybe not this year, maybe not next... But eventually, he will be miserable at Shea.

[Shannow]

Illl say July this year, about a month after Pedro fully tears his right shoulder labrum. Karmas a bitch huh petey.

[Margalis]

Derek Lowe, 9 million a year for 4 years. What a myopic signing. The guy is mediocre at best all year, then has a great post-season and regains all his value. Gotta hand it to his agent I guess.

[HaemishM]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I missed it in the strep haze.

Beltran is going to FUCKING HATE the Mets. I'd say by July, when they are sweltering in the doldrums right above the Nationals and Beltran has less than 20 homers in the voluminous confines of Shea Stadium, he will be begging to get out of that shithole. Minaya is a smart GM, but I just don't think he's going to like it. The Mets made the same mistakes they always have; they tried to be the Yankees. Again. Rebuilding takes more than one year and a couple of not-quite-star-caliber rookies. Nobody really stood out on that team as an immediate star. Piazza can't play catcher and would be better going to the AL as a DH, Floyd is fragile, Reyes was hurt. Great, they got a great centerfielder who can hit for 30 HR power. That'll be upper-20 power in Shea. Whose going to set the table? Reyes? Maybe. Matsui? Bust. Pedro and Glavine are good for 6 innings, and then who do they go to? Bullpen isn't anything to write home about. Beltran will hate losing. Again.

Derek Lowe's agent is Scott Boras, king cocksucker of the agent world. How anyone still deals with this fucker is beyond me. You KNOW he's going to fuck you on the deal. Lowe got all that money on postseason glory, which is important, but not that important. The Dodgers aren't looking good this year.

And what the fuck is up with the Dbacks? Does anyone think all that money they spent is actually going to turn them around this year? Not without a miracle.

[Kenrick]

Scott Boras, king cocksucker of the agent world. How anyone still deals with this fucker is beyond me. You KNOW he's going to fuck you on the deal.

To elaborate:

Did Carlos Beltran's agent play fair with the Astros?
News reports suggest Boras may have overstated bidding

By MARC A. LEVIN

Astros fans are understandably distraught by the departure of talented free agent Carlos Beltran after the team and city did everything conceivable to make Beltran and his family feel at home. In addition to being saddened, we should also be disturbed by the ethically and legally questionable conduct of Beltran's agent, Scott Boras.

There are now at least two reported incidents of Boras' allegedly deceiving the baseball teams with whom he has negotiated. Boras apparently told the Texas Rangers in 2000 that he had obtained an offer for star shortstop Alex Rodriguez for at least $200 million, but according to Atlanta Braves General Manager John Schuerholz, the highest offer at the time was the Braves' $150 million. The Rangers evidently bid against themselves, raising the final price tag to $252 million over 10 years, a contract that prevented the Rangers from fielding a competitive team around Rodriguez and ultimately led to his being dealt to the cash-rich Yankees.

In the last few weeks, Boras repeatedly told media outlets, and apparently the Astros, that he had five Beltran offers for at least $100 million. In fact, the Chronicle, ESPN and others have confirmed that only the Astros and Mets ever bid as much, and the Mets at the point of Boras' first utterance of this claim had apparently not even made their initial offer. These reports state that the Cubs topped out at $80 million and the other rumored teams — the Detroit Tigers, Seattle Mariners, New York Yankees and Baltimore Orioles — never entered the bidding.

If these reports are accurate, Boras arguably acted unethically in both instances. An attorney, Boras is subject to the ethical rules governing lawyers, even though his work involves negotiating deals, not appearing in court. The Texas Rules of Disciplinary Conduct, Rule 4.01 titled "Truthfulness to Others" states, in part, "In the course of representing a client, a lawyer shall not knowingly make a false statement of material fact to a third person."

If indeed Boras misrepresented his clients' offers to other teams and the media, it is hard to imagine he did so unknowingly, since as Rodriguez and Beltran's sole agent, he would necessarily know what offers they had and had not received. Although violating this rule could be grounds for disbarment in Texas, Boras is a member of the California Bar, where no such rule exists, meaning all the Texas Bar could do is deny him admission should he seek to practice here.

Beyond ethics, the legality of Boras' conduct can also be questioned. In Texas, the Deceptive Trade Practices Act (DTPA) prohibits making false or misleading statements in the course of selling a product or service, but because the Astros and Rangers have assets exceeding $25 million, they could not bring a claim. However, the Texas attorney general could initiate a DTPA claim on their behalf.

The Astros or Rangers could sue Boras for fraud. In Texas, to establish fraud, a party must prove: 1) that a material representation was made; 2) the representation was false; 3) when the representation was made, the speaker knew it was false or made it recklessly without any knowledge of the truth and as a positive assertion; 4) the speaker made the representation with the intent that the other party should act upon it; 5) the party acted in reliance on the representation; and 6) the party thereby suffered injury.

If the Rangers sued, they could claim injury for overpaying for Rodriguez, while the Astros' damages would be more nuanced. It is conceivable that, absent Boras' bluster about other offers, the Astros would have given Beltran an ultimatum to sign by an earlier deadline, realizing they had the only major offer on the table for some time. This would have forced Beltran's hand and, if he declined, at least have enabled the Astros to sign other quality free agents who are now unavailable.

Baseball executives are particularly vulnerable to being misled about the extent of other offers because they could be charged with collusion if they attempt to contemporaneously contact their counterparts to verify them. Remarkably, Boras' credibility is so low that some teams refuse to negotiate with him. Thus, Boras' best defense to a fraud claim might be that baseball executives know they cannot rely on the veracity of his statements.

To be sure, the blame goes well beyond Boras for the integrity deficit in both baseball and the corporate world. From steroids to revenue sharing, the players' union and owners have so far failed to ensure that the game is played on a level playing field. From Enron to WorldCom, millions of Americans have suffered financially as a result of deceptive statements.

While Boras is unlikely to face any ethical or legal repercussions, professional athletes should choose agents who negotiate in good faith and abide by basic rules of fair play. Like their clients, baseball agents are entitled to play hardball and swing for the fences, but they should refrain from making misleading pitches.

Levin, a former staff attorney for the Texas Supreme Court and law clerk for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, is a lifelong Astros fan and an attorney at Potts & Reilly, L.L.P. in Austin.

[sidereal]

How anyone still deals with this fucker is beyond me.

All you good player are belong to him.

[Kenrick]

Beltran will hate losing. Again.

That's the part that gets me... Houston's been a winning (and classy) organization for 8+ years straight now (with the exception of 2000).  The Mets have a decent team every 5 or 10 years.  All of Beltran's talk about how important it was for him to be on a winning ballclub looks like a load of horse shit now.  It was always just about the money for him.

And when it came to Beltran... as a lifelong Astros fan I've never seen an entire city embrace a player so quickly the way Houston did with him.  I was at Game 4 of the NLCS vs. the Cardinals, and the atmosphere was electric -- especially when Beltran would bat.  I saw him hit that homer off that bitch Tavarez to seal the win, and the place blew up.  He had the city wrapped around his finger.. and he could have had that for the next seven years along with $105 million (with zero state income tax).

So why the hell would he chose to go play in that SHITHOLE in NY where the fans and media will surely have a love/hate relationship with him, where he will surely win less pennants than he would wearing brick and sand (sorry breaking into Astro speak now).

The whole thing just stinks to high hell.  But in the end, I laugh at him.  He'll soon be miserable, and the Astros will probably utilize their very good farm in the coming years to fill the gap in CF... for a FUCK of a lot less money. :)

[Margalis]

It was well known even at the time that the Rangers were vastly overpaying for A-Rod compared to other offers. The idea was supposedly that Texas sucked so they had to overpay to lure him. In terms of monetary contract value Texas was over the next highest offer by 50 million and they knew it. ESPN knew it. Everybody knew it. Unless the Texas guys don't bother to read anything they knew it too.

Edit: Not to defend Boras at all, but he didn't trick the Rangers. They were just dumb.

[Trippy]

That's the part that gets me... Houston's been a winning (and classy) organization for 8+ years straight now (with the exception of 2000).  The Mets have a decent team every 5 or 10 years.  All of Beltran's talk about how important it was for him to be on a winning ballclub looks like a load of horse shit now.  It was always just about the money for him.

Maybe the Astros should've offered him a no-trade clause.

[Kenrick]

Maybe Borass shouldn't have first mentioned a no-trade clause 90 minutes before the deadline and then hung up the phone.

[Nazrat]

Um, why do you think that the Mets offer kept going up even after the Astros deadline?  Boras was lying his ass off about other offers.  That is how he does business.  He sets his price before the off season starts and then he does anything to ensure that he gets his price.  Check what he said he would get for Beltran and then look and see who was willing to pay that price.  Boras used the Astros to get Beltran's wife to NY and to set the market for his client.

[Kenrick]

Finally, some good news this off-season for Astros' fans (of which there is a grand total of 1 on these boards):

Barring a delay that would force Astros owner Drayton McLane to arrive to Houston later this evening, the club is set to announce a record deal with future Hall of Famer Roger Clemens, the Chronicle has learned.

The Astros will likely hold a press conference this afternoon to announce Clemens' signing. McLane, who was in a board meeting for Scott and White Hospital in the morning, was unavailable for comment. Astros general manager Tim Purpura has not returned calls to the Chronicle for three days.

Clemens' agents, Randy and Alan Hendricks, also were unavailable for comment.

Clemens, who won his record seventh Cy Young Award and first in the National League this past season, is due to get a steep raise from the $5 million he signed for last year.

He filed for a record $22 million in salary arbitration, $8.5 million more than the Astros' offer of $13.5 million, which also is a club record. But McLane on Tuesday said he was sure Clemens would not earn $22 million this year.

Nonetheless, Purpura said the negotiations would begin at the midpoint of the offers, $17.75 million, which eclipses the most ever earned by a pitcher in major-league history. The previous record was set last season by Pedro Martinez, who earned $17.5 million with the Boston Red Sox.

Clemens, 42, was the NL's starting pitcher in the All-Star game and finished last season with an 18-4 record. He led the majors in winning percentage and was among National League leaders in ERA (2.98) and strikeouts (218).

[Nazrat]

Um, Stros fan here also.

Now to sign another OF so that Biggio can stop being a statue and can sit on the bench where he belongs.

[Kenrick]

Um, Stros fan here also.

Now to sign another OF so that Biggio can stop being a statue and can sit on the bench where he belongs.

Heh, sorry I didn't realize!

Biggio shouldn't be benched yet, he's still got above average productivity at the plate.  But god damn he's a horrible outfielder!  Going to be very interesting to see how the line-up and defensive alignment for 2005 pans out, pre and post Berkman's return in May.

But with a rotation of Oswalt/Pettitte/Clemens/Backe/[?], it might not take astronomical (no pun intended) offensive numbers to have a good season.

edit:  Press conference at 2pm CST by the way.

[Nazrat]

Actually, for an OF, Biggio has horrible offensive numbers.  They get worse if he has to play a corner OF.  Right now, Biggio's numbers are average for a 2B but he is now playing a slugging position.

Biggio should be the utility guy and pinch hitter and be used like Vizcaino not like an everyday player.

Lane is a solid corner OF but shaky in CF.  Berkman isn't a good CF either especially while recovering from a knee injury.  

The brass is hoping that Willy Tavares learns how to hit so that he can make the team out of spring training.  Unfortunately, his history shows that isn't hitting enough right now to play every day either.  

Astros may be stuck with a lumbering OF for at least one or two more years.  

On a positive note, Burke is a speedy 2b but without power.  Burke will bring a new dimension to the team that is similar to the Astros of old:  slap hitter with lots of speed.

It will be an interesting season.  I am still afraid that the Cardinals are better barring some season ending injuries.

[HaemishM]

Looks like Sammy Sosa will be an Oriole. Lot of good Cub-based Hot Stove talk there. Sosa gets moved for a decent second baseman with some baserunning speed and good defense, and a couple of minor leaguers. The Cubs get stuck paying for most of it.

But what I don't get is why the fuck the Cubs are interested in Jeromy Burnitz? Granted, he's a left hander with some pop, but he's also a strikeout machine. So was Sosa recently, so maybe that'll even out. There's also rumors of them going after Aubrey Huff (a good idea) or Eric Byrnes (bad idea - he's never produced consistently through a whole season). Maybe they can use Hairston as a leadoff guy, Patterson or Garciaparra hitting 2nd, Lee 3rd, Ramirez at cleanup and Burnitz 5th where he won't hurt them as much. After that you still have Barrett and whoever they get to play that last outfielder spot, maybe Hollandsworth. As long as the Cubs get more speed and defense, they still have the pitching to win.

[Kenrick]

500th post!

Now where did I put my cream?



And to make this post at least slightly on-topic, I'd like to say congrats to the Cubs fans here for finally getting rid of that assmonkey.  Unfortunately for the Cubs, the true source of the poison in your clubhouse is Dusty Baker.

[HaemishM]

See, I don't know if Baker is the problem or not. After all, he managed to put together two winning seasons in a row, which no Cubs manager has done in my lifetime. I have hope for them this year, even though they just signed Jeromy "Strike Three" Burnitz to "replace" Sosa. If this Hariston kid can leadoff and stay healty, the Cubs got a shot. But I am personally glad to see Sammy go, and I was a huge fan. I'm even more happy to see Moises "It's the Umps" Alou go to the Giants. It makes the Giants a better team, but I'm sure the Umps will hate him there too.

[Margalis]

Hairston can be a base-stealing machine. Check out his numbers from 2 years ago before he was hurt. He was leading the AL in steals. Ha singlehandedly kept my fantasy team in the running for the first month.

His OBP percentage has improved a lot recently. I think he will be a very good leadoff hitter.

On the other hand, Burnitz is terrible. He's just a much worse version of Sosa. A guy who will hit the occassional HR and produce a ton of useless outs. It's not like he's a super power hitter either, I mean he'll hit 10-15 more home runs than Derek Jeter.

[Nazrat]

You can't steal first base.  Hairston will be an average 2b for the cubbies.  If he plays OF for any significant time, the Cubs are sunk as he can't hit enough for the OF.  

Burnitz will keep the infield cool with all of the swinging strikes but he is at least a major league OF.  The Cubs are really hurting in the OF and their hitting overall is weak.  

The NL Central race is up for grabs unless the Cards figure out how to pitch.

[Margalis]

You can't steal first base.  Hairston will be an average 2b for the cubbies.  If he plays OF for any significant time, the Cubs are sunk as he can't hit enough for the OF.  

Burnitz will keep the infield cool with all of the swinging strikes but he is at least a major league OF.  The Cubs are really hurting in the OF and their hitting overall is weak.  

Hairston hit over .300 last year! Burnitz is a joke. Look at his non-Colorado years. a .239 average. Year before that, .215! OBP hovering around .300. The guy is NOT a real major league OF. I'd take Hairston (who isn't one either) over Burnitz any day.

The Cubs need guys who can make contact, get on base, move runners, run the bases, etc. Burnitz is none of those. He;s a totally one-dimensional player. He'll give you 30-35 HRs and everything else will suck.

[Nazrat]

You do understand that batting average is the least useful hitting stat in baseball.  On base percentage is much more important.  Slugging percentage is more important.  

Hairston's career OBP is .334.  That isn't good for a "leadoff" hitter.  Last year's .378 is good but it was the first time he performed that well.  The problem with Hairston in the OF is that you need slugging percentage from OF, 1B, 3B, anc C.  Hairston can't hit anything more than a single.  His Slugging percentage last year was .397 with a career average of .371.  THat is awful from any OF much less a corner OF.  Simply put, Hairston hits like a 2B not an OF.  If the Cubs can't find a better hitter to play OF, they won't score many runs.

Burnitz's lifetime on base percentage is .351 which is higher than the "leadoff" hitter mentioned above.  His lifetime slugging percentage is .491 which is at the low end of acceptable for an OF.  He has too many K's and not enough BB.  That is why he was still available for a song for the Cubbies to pick up.  

Burnitz does not have the speed of Hairston but hits better.  The Cubs need to have better players than both to win the pennant but Burnitz is an OF and Hairston needs to stay on the dirt.

[Kenrick]

This debate seems similar to the age old:  "Hey, what tastes better... dog poop or cat poop?"

Both suck.

[Margalis]

Batting average is UNDERRATED, not overrated. This is a pet peeve of mine. OBP is way overrated.

If you get a walk or get hit by a pitch, you don't advance a runner at second or third. If a runner was at second, you now set up a double play. In many situations, a hit is far far better than a walk.

Remember when the Angels won the Series? They did that based on high average hitting. Hits move runners. Guys go from first to third, and from second to home. And they give the other team a chance to choke on defense.

If you take out Burnitz' Colorado numbers (which you should always do when evaluating players) he's laughable. Yes, his Colorado numbers look better - don't fall into that trap.