Critique My Home Workout Please!

[Cyrrex]

Right.  I didn't know any of this shit a half a year ago either.  I'm very much in the middle of my journey still.  I just happen to be OCD about things that interest me.

Eating enough to pack on the muscle is harder than it sounds, because you obviously don't want to eat too much crap, either.  It can also be tough to get it into your head that adding on a bit of extra fat goes hand in hand.  I still struggle with that one.

Also, be aware that "efficient" may not equal "healthiest".  A weight gain diet isn't going to be adding years to your lifespan.  It might do the opposite.

[stray]

You've gotta work your way up to eating too. Start at 3000, move up to 4 or 5. edit: Find a meal plan and follow it. Best not to do the guesswork.

BUT.. well, I'm trying something new. I've tried dabbling with vegetarianism before, but I'm going to give it more of a shot this time. It's possible to get up to 4000 that way (with some protein powder as well). It also helps to get a juicer, period. Vegetarian or not.

[Cyrrex]

Most people won't need anything near 4000 calories, but everyone is geared differently, I suppose.  Best thing to do is to figure out your average calorie intake (for most people, between 2000 and 2500 I believe) and add about 500 calories per day.  If that works, keep it there.  If not, add another 500.

I'd struggle on a veggie diet, simply because you'd have to eat so god damn much.  Also, you have to make sure you are getting lots of protein, which is obviously easier with dead animal carcass.  Unless fish is still on your diet, in which case almost nothing is better than tuna.

[stray]

I'm hovering between 6'4" and 6'5".. I'd barely sustain myself on 2,000 calories even if I was fairly sedentary. Forgot what the acronym was, but there is a rating that shows what your body needs even without activity, funnily enough. Anyhow, for bulking up, I need about 3,600 to be more accurate, but I round it out to 4000.

Anyhow, a dinner meal could be soy burgers (like 4 patties), some baked beans, potatoes, and some light cheddar, and it'd still be a 900 calorie meal. I'd get about 84g of protein out of it too. You could sauté vegetable protein, mix with some rice and veggies, and hit 900 cals.. and about the same number of grams of protein too. Both would have about 100g of carbs, and very little fat.

I really don't expect anyone to follow suit, but just mentioning it. I have an appetite for meat, but I really don't like dealing with it.

[slog]

At some point, you have to decide if you are working out to just be healthy or if you are looking to put on 30 pounds of muscle.  Which way are you trying to go?

[Trippy]

I'm hovering between 6'4" and 6'5".. I'd barely sustain myself on 2,000 calories even if I was fairly sedentary. Forgot what the acronym was, but there is a rating that shows what your body needs even without activity, funnily enough. Anyhow, for bulking up, I need about 3,600 to be more accurate, but I round it out to 4000.

BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate).

[K9]

I'm hovering between 6'4" and 6'5".. I'd barely sustain myself on 2,000 calories even if I was fairly sedentary. Forgot what the acronym was, but there is a rating that shows what your body needs even without activity, funnily enough. Anyhow, for bulking up, I need about 3,600 to be more accurate, but I round it out to 4000.

Anyhow, a dinner meal could be soy burgers (like 4 patties), some baked beans, potatoes, and some light cheddar, and it'd still be a 900 calorie meal. I'd get about 84g of protein out of it too. You could sauté vegetable protein, mix with some rice and veggies, and hit 900 cals.. and about the same number of grams of protein too. Both would have about 100g of carbs, and very little fat.

I really don't expect anyone to follow suit, but just mentioning it. I have an appetite for meat, but I really don't like dealing with it.

2000 calories is the guideline amount for a woman, it's 2500 for a man. For a male doing regular exercise the ideal for average blokes is around 3000-3200 calories per day, spread over 4 meals as I recall. I wouldn't ever aim to have a calorific intake goal, and 5000 calories a day would require some really intense training to burn off; rather I would match your calorific intake to your needs as you train.

[stray]

and 5000 calories a day would require some really intense training to burn off

Well you have to be intense anyways!  


Not everyone needs 5000 calories, of course. That's definitely needed for somebody big, and looking to get bigger (and often, they're consuming more than that in their training periods. If I was looking to bulk up to a QB's size or something, I definitely would be consuming 5k cals eventually.. But I'm not. My goals are relatively modest, and yet I still have to shoot for close to 4000 cal).

And if you don't have a calorie goal in mind, then you don't really have a complete plan, a fridge stocked with the things you need, and just generally speaking, a whole lifestyle you need to switch to and follow. I'm sure a well disciplined person can already figure it out on their own, but the average joe needs to be told what to do and have some signs and numbers pointing him around on his path. Else he's walking in the dark and getting shitty results.

[Slayerik]

At some point, you have to decide if you are working out to just be healthy or if you are looking to put on 30 pounds of muscle.  Which way are you trying to go?

I just want to put on muscle. I don't care too much about the healthy part at this point, as I have vices I'd rather kick first for the healthy track.

[Slayerik]

4th set into my 5x5 , I already like it better. I feel like I am working my muscles much harder.

Question though...I'm working Bi's/Shoulder/back ....my arms are already kinda at failure point... do I do another 5 x 5 on different type of curl? Seems like a lot....but I can push it.

[stray]

I don't do 5x5 (but something along the same lines).. But anyways, if I understand correctly.. you're at failure point at 4? Then you've loaded too much. Just gauge what you can do at 5x5. Then load the weight you're failing at now the next time around. That said, you worked your arm anyways at 4 sets. It's not like the body knows the 5x5 system and will refuse to build or anything. "HAHA! FAIL!" :P But it's a good idea to follow the program. Things can start getting unbalanced otherwise.

[K9]

4th set into my 5x5 , I already like it better. I feel like I am working my muscles much harder.

Question though...I'm working Bi's/Shoulder/back ....my arms are already kinda at failure point... do I do another 5 x 5 on different type of curl? Seems like a lot....but I can push it.

If you're pushing it hard you shouldn't need to be doing more than 3 types of lift really. Start with squats, and then do 5 sets of three other types of lift and you should have pushed yourself enough. It's a more efficient workout than doing 3 easy sets of 7 different types of lift. Also you should probably do different lifts on your two gym days. So deadlift, cleans and rows one day; bench press, push press and something else on the other. Always do squats first though, as your legs are the biggest muscle groups you can work, and you reap greater benefits by starting with them.

[Cyrrex]

Or, you can quite literally follow the link I posted above, which will tell you...

Monday:
Squats
Bench
Bent Rows

Wednesday:
Squats
Military
Deadlifts

Friday:
Squats
Bench
Bent Rows

There are lots of squats for a reason (Wednesday is a light day of squats, the Deads are the focus for that day).  As your energy permits, add dips, pullups and some sort  of crunch/ab exercise (you NEED to do these exercises, but find out which days you are best able to manage which ones).  This will target every major muscle group in the most efficient way possible.  If you are doing anything else, you are potentially wasting energy.  Use the weekend to do any isolation exercise like curls or whatever, if you absolutely must...I do, but it isn't because I need to.  The above stuff will do all the pushing and pulling you need, with heavy weights.

Slayerik:  If you are near failure going into your 4th set, it is because you are starting too agressively.  The plan I linked above will have you find your max 5 rep weight, but then have you work up to it over 4 weeks.  I'm not saying you necessarily have to go back all four weeks (I only went one or two when I started, but only because I had been lifting weights before that, so my muscles were more attuned), but if you don't work up to it in some way, you will likely hit a wall very early, not progress and give up in rage.  I wasn't shitting when I said that this program will have you setting a new record with every 5th set you perform of every exercise...if you are struggling on day one, you will almost definitely fail on day two.  Work your way into to it.  It might suck to have to feel like you're pussing out early on, but you'll make it up later. 

[Slayerik]

I don't do 5x5 (but something along the same lines).. But anyways, if I understand correctly.. you're at failure point at 4? Then you've loaded too much. Just gauge what you can do at 5x5. Then load the weight you're failing at now the next time around. That said, you worked your arm anyways at 4 sets. It's not like the body knows the 5x5 system and will refuse to build or anything. "HAHA! FAIL!" :P But it's a good idea to follow the program. Things can start getting unbalanced otherwise.

Well, it wasn't quite failure point then. I think I had my weight right about on because I already knew from working out the past two months how much I'd have to put on for sets of 5, and I nailed it first guess.  I went on to do three sets of 10 of seated dumbell curls to finish it out my Bi's. Next time I'll up the weight some but the dumbbells in my basement can be a pain to tweak weights on. Overall, I like this way better. I think I will see bigger gains from it. Thanks.

My friend was telling me about doing super sets for arms, where you basically overload workout your Bi's and Tri's the same workout and something about the huge blood flow there helps build. I don't plan on trying it, but he said it worked for him. Ever heard of it?

[Slayerik]

Slayerik:  If you are near failure going into your 4th set, it is because you are starting too agressively.  The plan I linked above will have you find your max 5 rep weight, but then have you work up to it over 4 weeks.  I'm not saying you necessarily have to go back all four weeks (I only went one or two when I started, but only because I had been lifting weights before that, so my muscles were more attuned), but if you don't work up to it in some way, you will likely hit a wall very early, not progress and give up in rage.  I wasn't shitting when I said that this program will have you setting a new record with every 5th set you perform of every exercise...if you are struggling on day one, you will almost definitely fail on day two.  Work your way into to it.  It might suck to have to feel like you're pussing out early on, but you'll make it up later. 

Ok so, I notice Bench Monday and Friday. Do you recommend 5 x 5 of just Flat bench on Monday, and then maybe 5 x 5 of Incline Dumbbells on friday? Or both in each workout. I guess I'm having a hard time gauging how much to do.

[Cyrrex]

That is meant to be a good old fashioned flat barbell bench for both days.  I suppose you could sub out for dumbells...but to me, that prevents you from hitting your max weights.  I also generally dislike dumbells, so YMMV.  I do inclines and declines on the weekend.  To be honest, it's probably superflous and potentially counter-productive....I'm really already hitting all the muscle groups (I don't have a dip station though, so the declines and other things help make up for that).  I may just be tiring myself out needlessy, because I end up doing some form of bench exercise four days in a row.  Sometimes it's hard to practice what you preach, though.  

What I posted above is the minimum.  Do those three days just like that, and add in the dips, crunches and pull-ups however you like.  Set that in stone, and then don't fuck with it.  The weekend is when you can add in all the other shit that is ultimately just icing.  Not too much, though....when Monday comes around, you need to make sure you have enough energy to break through the next barrier.


Edit:  It just struck me...you are aware that the 5 sets you perform are with gradually increasing weights, yes?  That only the fifth set is the max weight?

[Draegan]

I just completed by 10th week of lifting.

First 2 weeks were circuits.  Work out the whole body, get the muscles used to working again.
Next 7 weeks were heavy lifting.  3x10s to failure.

Usually I plateau at this point.  I've switched to 3x20's or until failure which is usually around the 60% mark of max weight.  I just my first week of this and I like the feeling of my body.  I'm going to do this for one more week and then go on a strength training 1 month regimen most likely.

I might do the 5x5's or the 3x8's.  Not sure.  But I want to max my weight during this time.  However I'm kind of leery about doing this right now.  I've still not lost on the weight I've packed on.  I've dropped from 238iish to around 223 or so.  I want to shed around 5-8 lbs of excess weight before I start putting on more muscle mass.

Throughout this though I usually do 20m cardio (stairmaster or elliptical) after each gym session, except on days that I do legs.  I usually also do one session a week where I do just cardio for 45-50 minutes.  Ever cardio session I'm keeping my heart rate to around 140-150.

I've seen the best results so far this time around.  In all my years of exercising and lifting I've never been more satisfied after 2 months.  I've bulked up before, and gotten big, but I've never seen the weight loss plus muscle build up.  I'm finally getting it right, and putting it together.  I've always known what to do, but now I'm finally doing it correctly.

[Nebu]

Some comments:

1) 10 reps is too much if muscle gain is your objective.  Your workouts should be brief and very intense.  The only time I do 10 reps of anything is during warmup sets at about 60% max weight to get the blood flowing.  Other than that, I do 5-6 reps for each set.  Anything beyond 6 reps is endurance training.  How you workout is determined by your goals.

2) I try not to work a muscle group more than once a week.  Gains require adequate recovery.

3) Biceps and triceps get plenty of work during chest, shoulder, and back work.  When I isolate arms, I go hard on triceps and take it easy on my biceps.  I don't want to sacrifice the quality of my large muscle group workouts to have big biceps. 

Side note:  I gave up lifting in the gym this summer to do naturals and the outcome has been interesting.  In just 3 months, my body has changed quite a bit.  I've lost significant muscle weight and the type of strength has changed.  I'm not at all surprised by the results, but it has been interesting to watch. 

[Slayerik]

Hmmm. I value biceps more than I do legs. I should be more clear about my purpose. I want to look good when I take my shirt off. It's not so much about becoming a total package of power, just building size and muscle tone.

Chest, Shoulders, Biceps, Tris and Back are what matter to me most. Maybe you guys could try to help with with a regiment for that purpose? I'd like to use the 5 x 5 though, I'm pretty sold on that.

[Slayerik]

Edit:  It just struck me...you are aware that the 5 sets you perform are with gradually increasing weights, yes?  That only the fifth set is the max weight?

This is news to me! ;)

[Cyrrex]

Edit:  It just struck me...you are aware that the 5 sets you perform are with gradually increasing weights, yes?  That only the fifth set is the max weight?

This is news to me! ;)

LOL, seriously, go to that site I linked and find the spreadsheet...even if you use different exercises, it will help calculate your lifts....you'll know the weight for every lift you make for the next several months.  Your first set is probably going to be something around 50% of your max weight, and increases by 10% or so for each subsequent set.

Also, if you were actually able to do your max weight for 4 whole sets...then you probably weren't really quite at your max weight.  Not that you need to try, but you should probably not even be able to do a second set at max weight.

Don't underestimate the squats - they are widely considered the single most important lift.  I understand (and agree with) your desire to focus on the upper body for appearances, but consider this:  Your muscles are all linked together.  Squats will improve your core strength to a serious degree.  Better core strength leads to better chest and shoulder strength.  Better chest and should strength leads to better arm strength.  The body wants to remain in harmony.  By having a well-rounded program, you are giving yourself the best chances to succeed.  The crazy Curl Guys at the gym trying to get the big arms?  They'll have better success if they're also doing squats.

The main reason people don't do squats is becuase squats fucking suck.  Think about that for a moment.  Why do they suck, exactly?

[Slayerik]

I guess I should really do some reading. I know jack and shit about anatomy.

For now im going to take your advice and do more of the shit I dont like, squats and rows. No pain, no gain baby.

[stray]

God, yeah, definitely don't dismiss squats. There's a ton of reasons why. Hell, it's even said that the more your thighs get work, the more T level and GH potential, which in the end, means a better overall anabolic process for all muscles. So it's not just the importance of your core's tie to all parts of your body at stake. There's a chemical importance as well. You're gyping yourself out of these upper body goals by saying the legs aren't as important. But besides that, focusing on just upper body or some other part is just silly. You can only work out so much. It's just as important to rest to see any results. And during that resting period, you're free to work on other parts of your body. That's the fucking beauty of it, man. It only makes some sense to really target something if it's really unbalanced. And that usually isn't your arms or chest. It's something more subtle, like lower back areas. And if there are unbalances in the arms that need more focus, it's usually not in the chest or arms. It's in your shoulders.

[slog]

The main reason people don't do squats is becuase squats fucking suck.  Think about that for a moment.  Why do they suck, exactly?

Because many of us old folks have horrible, arthritic knees?

[stray]

I have some gimp fingers personally :P

[Draegan]

I love squats.

Some comments:

1) 10 reps is too much if muscle gain is your objective.  Your workouts should be brief and very intense.  The only time I do 10 reps of anything is during warmup sets at about 60% max weight to get the blood flowing.  Other than that, I do 5-6 reps for each set.  Anything beyond 6 reps is endurance training.  How you workout is determined by your goals.

2) I try not to work a muscle group more than once a week.  Gains require adequate recovery.

3) Biceps and triceps get plenty of work during chest, shoulder, and back work.  When I isolate arms, I go hard on triceps and take it easy on my biceps.  I don't want to sacrifice the quality of my large muscle group workouts to have big biceps. 

Side note:  I gave up lifting in the gym this summer to do naturals and the outcome has been interesting.  In just 3 months, my body has changed quite a bit.  I've lost significant muscle weight and the type of strength has changed.  I'm not at all surprised by the results, but it has been interesting to watch. 

My goals are not necessarily muscle gain.  I have a pretty decent amount of muscle mass already.  My goals are slight muscle gain, strength, and weight loss.

I've never done 5x5's which I'll give a shot, but I've done Max Weight/Fatigue sets by doing Sets of 8,6,6 which is about the same.

I usually workout triceps with my back and shoulders, while working out my chest and biceps on other days.  Legs on another.

I also do each muscle group once a week and cardio on one other.

I'm assuming you were talking to me.

[Slayerik]

I'm a silly bitch, what can I say! ;)

[K9]

I have some gimp fingers personally :P

How does that prevent you doing squats though? 

For the record I also fucking hate squats, I think it's the feeling of being squashed that's no fun; on the flip side, they do me so much good I can't afford to avoid them. Deadlift is the other 'must-have' lift for me. Also barbell rows, they can fuck right off. Rows are one of the few exercises where I feel dumbbells are the superior option, mainly since getting good form on barbell rows is such a pain in the arse, and you can go really heavy on dumbbell rows without too much issue.

[stray]

lol.. they don't prevent me. i just... i don't know, i'm proclaiming solidarity with the gimp mofos out there   not to brag, but i've been pretty fortunate so far. never had any fucked up jobs that screwed my back or knees, or whatnot. i feel bad for people going through anything like that.

[Cyrrex]

I have some gimp fingers personally :P

How does that prevent you doing squats though? 

For the record I also fucking hate squats, I think it's the feeling of being squashed that's no fun; on the flip side, they do me so much good I can't afford to avoid them. Deadlift is the other 'must-have' lift for me. Also barbell rows, they can fuck right off. Rows are one of the few exercises where I feel dumbbells are the superior option, mainly since getting good form on barbell rows is such a pain in the arse, and you can go really heavy on dumbbell rows without too much issue.

That's it exactly...the feeling of getting squashed.  Anyone who likes squats isn't squatting heavy enough (I like every set just fine until the last heavy one), or low enough.  Or is just plain crazy.  I like deadlifts waaaay better, but they are proven to be less effective.

And yeah, barbell rows can suck my cock.  So awkward.

[K9]

Anyone who likes squats isn't squatting heavy enough (I like every set just fine until the last heavy one), or low enough. 

I always cringe slightly when I see guys only going down to 90 degrees with their legs in a squat, as that's the angle that's perfect for blowing a knee out.

Deadlifts may not be as effective as squats, but I find they tie everything else together nicely; and for all the frustration that being squashed in a squat brings, the awesome feeling of lifting something fucking heavy is returned by the deadlift.

[Draegan]

I fucking HATE deadlifts.

[stray]

Curious what you guys do before a workout. How much energy do you have?

[Cyrrex]

Curious what you guys do before a workout. How much energy do you have?

Depends on if I'm cutting or gaining.  During a cut, I have a lack of energy and have to power through on pure spite and horneriness.  If I'm in a bulk phase, the caloric excess usually means automatic energy (I'll occasionally throw down a protein bar in advance as well).  More than anything, though, I think you have to have your head in the right place.  Having the right mental state on a daily basis is the only way you get through this shit.

[K9]

I'm not quite as serious as Cyrrex, and I have to work out after I get back from work during the week. In general though I have good energy; if I know I'm going to be lifiting in the evening I'll have a lunch of pasta or other carbs, and drink plenty of water during the afternoon. That way I'm usually right where I need to be when I hit the gym.