3-4 months to get in shape.

[Musashi]

Yea, he's right.  What kind of person wants to make a career out of fucking other people over.  You can convince yourself that you're being altruistic, but you're not. 

Lakov should look at this as a blessing in disguise.  Go to college.  Do NOT join the Marines.  (I know of what I speak.)

[Viin]

If you want some money, and get college paid for, *and* have time to go to college, the local Air National Guard is a great bet.

You don't need college credits. They'll train you for a specific job (you get to pick the job out of the available ones), you only go in 1 weekend a month plus 1 90 day deployment every 2 years or so. You get GI Bill money for living (not a lot, but some - more if you go on deployments) plus in-state tuition assistance from the Guard (90-100% tuition covered).

Plus you can get a cash bonus on sign up if you go for a critical job they need filled.

More info here:

http://www.goang.com/benefits/

But your State's ANG website will have specific information plus enlisted positions that are open.

[lac]

Does anybody know why after 3 months of running 5km (3.1 miles) 3 times a week I haven't lost any weight? I have a bmi of 25 which is rather average but I'm sure I can lose some pounds.
I don't really want to lose weight, I don't diet and live a rather burgundian lifestyle but I'm a bit puzzled to why my weight stays the exact same despite me being in a much great shape compared to what I was before I started running again.
Is it possible the muscle gain balanced out the weight loss?

[Cyrrex]

I can't remember what they call it, but it's like they say about postmen walking the same route every day and still have big fat bellies...the body gets used to and adapts to the routine.  Mix it up, try something else.

On a more basic level, you are not burning more calories than you are consuming.  Whenever you are curious about why you aren't losing weight, this is the irrefutable truth.

[lac]

Sounds logical. Yet I wasn't putting on more weight when I was doing what I am doing now minus the running. That's what's puzzling me.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I've actually noticed my weight stabelizing around 184-5.  I'm still in much better shape than I was but I'm not quite fit yet....though going from size 42 pants to size 36 is pretty awesome.

As to the police thing, well I answered honestly for all the questions but maybe not diplomatically. Either way I'm ok with it because what I said was exactly how I would act in the situations presented and I'm not going to be ashamed of that.

I may actually look into the air national guard, sounds interesting.  I might still pursue law enforcement but I had also been looking into nursing as well.  My problem right now is with a GED and 40hr job that just pays the bills getting funding or even free time for college is going to be hard.

[Cyrrex]

Sounds logical. Yet I wasn't putting on more weight when I was doing what I am doing now minus the running. That's what's puzzling me.

Your body will always try to defend itself when "threatened".  It is likely adapting your metabolic rate to make up for it the extra calories you are burning.  You might find that if you stop running, you'll start putting on weight.

[Viin]

I may actually look into the air national guard, sounds interesting.  I might still pursue law enforcement but I had also been looking into nursing as well.  My problem right now is with a GED and 40hr job that just pays the bills getting funding or even free time for college is going to be hard.

They always need cops in the AF/ANG (Security Forces). You could work at the base during the week, get paid pretty good for it too even while being a 'Reservist'. Once you've gone through the training and OJT and a couple deployments, you'd have a good chance at getting into local police/sherrifs offices - of course getting a degree while a reservist is going to help out even more (sometimes required, right?), but the experience will be gold compared to other applicants.

They also need nurses. Both those are needed and may pay a $20k bonus for signing up. And they pay for your training/OJT!

Going to school while working 40hrs is really really hard - I recommend getting into the ANG/Reserves/whatever to pay for school and then get a loan for living expenses. You aren't going to go any further than you have without doing something drastic (or it'll take 8 years). Tough decision to make, I know.

[Lantyssa]

Does anybody know why after 3 months of running 5km (3.1 miles) 3 times a week I haven't lost any weight? I have a bmi of 25 which is rather average but I'm sure I can lose some pounds.

BMI is a poor indicator of health.  Use it as a rough estimate, but understand it cannot measure fat percentage.

It is likely you are putting on muscle.  Muscle weighs more than fat and because of that a lot of people who are starting an exercise regimen assume they aren't losing weight.  They're technically right, but they are losing weight due to fat, which is what they want.  Increased muscle mass requires burning more calories so it helps with that goal.

It's also healthier than just starving yourself and losing weight, although a lot of people think that's what is supposed to happen.

[Arnold]

Sounds logical. Yet I wasn't putting on more weight when I was doing what I am doing now minus the running. That's what's puzzling me.

You are eating more or moving less to compensate.  I went through a 6 month period where I rode my bicycle for almost everything and my weight didn't change at all.

If you want to lose weight, you need to adjust your diet.  Here is an aphorism that will serve you well -

You can't outrun your fork.

[proudft]

Yep, it's boring but true.  If you calculate out your calories, you'll soon make sense of it all.  Walking burns very very few calories & people are ridiculously efficient.

For me, for example, my basal burn rate is 1960 calories, and my typical daily activity brings that up to about 2500.  If I go over 2500 I gain weight, if I go under about 2000 or so I lose it (you have to drop under a certain amount to tell your body to get busy losin' but not SO low as to freak it out into starvation mode -- but starvation mode is reallly low, like 1300 or something for me).

Basal is figured out with charts & graphs on the web that take your age and weight and spit it out, and figuring out my 'break-even' amount of 2500 is from trial & error by keeping logs for almost a year now.   I can increase the amount burned by 200 to 400 with some (admittedly pretty lame) exercise but honestly, it's easier to just cut down on the food for me.  Part of that is that I get the advantages of being tall & male - my wife's basal, for example, is way down at like 1400 or so, which is a lot of difference to make up, and so she opts for much more exercise, since eating 1500 calories a day really sucks.

This guy's website-slash-book is what got me started on the charts n' graphs, it's really kinda interesting if you like playing with numbers and can keep good records about what you eat:  http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

[proudft]

(ack, wrong button)

[Cheddar]

Counties beg ex military guys to go into law enforcement.  When I got out I was inundated with information on it.

[lac]

You can't outrun your fork.

Are you sure? I did a little test with 3 different recently used forks and none of them beat me in a short sprint to the kitchen sink.

But seriously, I noticed my pants starting sagging so I jumped on the scales only to be somewhat baffled to see I still weigh the same 75kg. It doesn't matter of course, I feel great, I'm in the best shape since I've started an office job and I'm really happy seeing myself getting into better shape and I really enjoy the exercise.

It took about two months running before my knees stopped hurting but now that they've catched up to my new activities a run after work has become a most relaxing thing to do.

[proudft]

Oh that's pretty clearly muscle gain then if you're getting smaller and weigh the same.  Good work!

[Lightstalker]

Muscle weighs more than fat

Muscle is more dense than fat.  A pound of fat and a pound of muscle both still weigh a pound at the end of the day.  You will notice your body profile appearing trimmer as you replace fat with muscle for a given weight.  If you just stop eating your body will cannibalize muscle to store more fat - so starvation diets often take your body profile the wrong direction.  You must eat in order to lose weight, eating right is what keeps you from eating too much (and gaining unwanted weight).

Most people naturally treat themselves after working out (or in the same day/week).  They automatically compensate for burning more calories by taking in more food.  Of course it is far easier to over compensate than it is to net even or maintain overall discipline (and then lose weight).  If you don't keep a food log religiously you'll have little chance of catching it.

Most people eat too much protein.  Your body can only use up to 1.5 grams per kg of lean mass.
Most people eat too few meals.  Large spikes in available fuel lead to most of it going into storage.
Many people don't get enough sleep, or carry other stresses that promote weight retention.
Many people drink alcohol while trying to adjust their body weight.  Alcohol is a weight loss killer, and makes maintaining hydration difficult.

I'm 5'11"  In 96 I weighed 140 and had 8% body fat.  By 2000 I weighed in at 195 with 10% body fat, having completed my transition from a collegiate cyclist to a men's rugby player.  Now, on the far side of competition with a desk job I'm facing the problem of shedding pounds.  I hit 237 earlier this year, at about the start of this thread, and am back down to 218.  I haven't improved my current bad eating habits nor changed my irregular sleep, I've just reduced some stresses and maintained/reduced total intake despite returning to the field twice a week and a couple weeks of crazy physical activity (while effective, moving 7 tons of stone by hand in 90 degree heat is not recommended).  I'll probably hit my target of 195 early next year, my continual fear is more forced inactivity.  I got to 237 through not changing my intake through injury (or work) enforced inactivity, every broken bone and death march has left its mark.  That's the last thing, your desire to eat will lag a couple weeks behind your actual burnrate, so you'll just start adding weight if you stop working out. 

I still weigh myself every morning, though I no longer record the values for weight and BMI.  Just tracking weight and food intake will help maintain discipline (so long as you care).  For help on tracking your food intake it is a lot easier now than even 10 years ago.  Sites like http://www.calorieking.com/foods/ make discovering the fat-carb-protein breakdown (9-4-4 calories per gram) much easier. 

Having been on the Cytomax and MCT+Bagel train I have no desire to go back, but sensible eating into my target weight is something I should get back to. 




For added thread relevance, my Fiancee is a police detective.  The oral was probably a couple of things, and often the most important thing was if they liked you on a personal level.  Police work is union work, it is all about time served seniority and being part of the team - because it is very difficult to get rid of an officer once they are in (union again).  If you brought up online gaming for teamwork and you aren't a raid leader/guild officer you did shoot yourself in the foot.  You may have also inadvertantly flagged yourself as a potential computer crimes officer, police training in this field is pretty desirable in the corporate world and those officers have a reputation of taking the training and leaving the force.  At the end of the day, if you weren't comfortable with the guys grilling you, you are better off putting into another department.  Finding coworkers you can tolerate is a big part of the process, especially since: switching departments means starting over from 0 seniority (so people don't do it); the union will protect your job (so they can't get rid of you anyway); and with unemployment where it is, police departments have many more applicants than they normally do. 

Also, sprinting the end of your timed portion provided a few pieces of information:  Your time was an accomplishment to you that you didn't necessarily know you could manage before hand, you were sandbagging the early laps and not leaving it all on the track, you did more than strictly necessary but weren't at the exceptional end of the spectrum, you let the other guy lead you out and set pace (do all the work) then you dropped him when you saw your own chance to shine (grabbing the glory).  Chances are, they didn't really care: beating the mark is beating the mark.  Police work attracts a specific personality type far more than any other, are you that type?  Would you fit in at work?  Or are you using this as a life changing decision point?  For the most part if you can create a life worth leaving in your current position you can do the same in any position.  Since the police can be selective now, they'll be looking for someone who already is the person they want rather than the person who thinks they might like to become that person.  If you are the right type and are sure this is your path, just put in with another department.  They really are fraternal orders and each will have its own personality; finding the right one becomes the most important thing you can do right now since changing in the future is costly.

[Teleku]

Christ, some of you have some pretty massive weight shifts.  I think I was born with a high metabolism.  After going through my growth and into college, I was about 185 and 6'1'ish (maybe 6'2'ish), and have stayed at around that for a long time now, no matter what I did.  I ate nothing but pizza and burritos, and drank nothing but Pepsi.  I would go some years with doing physical activity, some years sitting on my ass doing nothing.  Didn't change anything.

As I get older, the old magic defiantly isn't working as well anymore, with my weight all the way up to 202 and noticeable fat forming on my stomach.  Which is prompting me to jump back into a food/exercise routine.  But Jesus Christ, I can't imagine the 50/60 pound shifts some of you guys are talking about.

[Lantyssa]

Muscle is more dense than fat.  A pound of fat and a pound of muscle both still weigh a pound at the end of the day.

I was meaning by volume, thus being more dense.  It's poor form to assume people would know that though.

[Broughden]

Does anybody know why after 3 months of running 5km (3.1 miles) 3 times a week I haven't lost any weight? I have a bmi of 25 which is rather average but I'm sure I can lose some pounds.
I don't really want to lose weight, I don't diet and live a rather burgundian lifestyle but I'm a bit puzzled to why my weight stays the exact same despite me being in a much great shape compared to what I was before I started running again.
Is it possible the muscle gain balanced out the weight loss?

A recent study which I believe Time magazine published, and that I emailed to my wife, stated that exercise sucks for weight loss....without pretty much using a nutrition counselor in conjunction with it. You simply eat more and take in more calories in response to exercising.

Their example in the article....you run 3 miles and burn 300 calories. You drink a 32 ounce Gatorade and eat a nutritional bar. Congrats you just replaced all 300 calories and something like 100 extra on top of that. Or awesome when you get home you can have a whopping 2 extra tablespoons of butter on your baked potato.

Basically the increased appetite that comes from physical exertion defeats our attempts to loose weight by burning the calories with out strong oversight and guidance on our nutrition as well.

[Cyrrex]

It's really your last sentence that nails it.  It isn't that exercising won't work, it's more that people either don't know what they are doing and/or lack self control.

People also need to be talking more about how simply adding muscle to your frame will increase your metabolism significantly, making "watching your weight" a whole hell of a lot easier.

[Murgos]

Or, as it was succinctly put to me, "Diet trumps exercise for weight loss."

[TripleDES]

If you go cycling, get a mountain bike and plow through the forrests. Way more rolling resistance than on the road and more fun. Lost like 15kg in two months that way (i.e. picking up mountain biking again after years). I plateau'd meanwhile. Not losing weight anymore, but slimming down in waist size and so on (I guess muscle build up).

[Arnold]

The Time article, as you can imagine, wasn't all that deep on the subject.  For a better look at it, check out "Good Calories, Bad Calories", by Gary Taubes.  It's a great book with a terrible name, because it isn't a diet book.

[Salamok]

Speaking of calories I found this somewhat interesting: The Calorie Delusion: Why Food Labels Are Incorrect.

Not sure about the science but on the common sense level it sounded good to me.

[Tale]

A recent study which I believe Time magazine published, and that I emailed to my wife, stated that exercise sucks for weight loss....without pretty much using a nutrition counselor in conjunction with it. You simply eat more and take in more calories in response to exercising.

Their example in the article....you run 3 miles and burn 300 calories. You drink a 32 ounce Gatorade and eat a nutritional bar. Congrats you just replaced all 300 calories and something like 100 extra on top of that. Or awesome when you get home you can have a whopping 2 extra tablespoons of butter on your baked potato.

Basically the increased appetite that comes from physical exertion defeats our attempts to loose weight by burning the calories with out strong oversight and guidance on our nutrition as well.

It's about the long term. I've been cycling a hilly 14km to work and back every weekday for the last two months, with the occasional 100km weekend ride. Earlier in the year, I did this for four months. In between, I had two months of illness and lack of sleep due to overwork, where I lost all my condition and gained weight.

For the first month and a half of cycling each time, I ate massive amounts. I needed it. It helped me build up the necessary muscle and cardiovascular condition. I didn't lose weight, but I dramatically changed shape for the better. After these initial six weeks, my appetite fell as it became routine to do the cycling. Both times as my appetite dropped, my weight began dropping and I began to look leaner.

My previous experience of this is 15 months of cycle touring, where I quit my job and lived in a tent most of the time, cycling 80-100km per day. I returned from that as a strong, thin person. This is my attempt to get back to that condition while retaining a job. As long as I keep this up and don't get sick this time, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Lantyssa]

Speaking of calories I found this somewhat interesting: The Calorie Delusion: Why Food Labels Are Incorrect.

Not sure about the science but on the common sense level it sounded good to me.

I cannot speak to all the science in the article, but at least some of it is correct, such as cooking foods denaturing proteins and making them more easily digestible.

[Lightstalker]

I'm in the 'not worth the bother' camp on working out particular deviations from 9-4-4.  Fibre/Protein looks to be the furthest off, but folks shouldn't be eating protein or fibre for fuel anyway (and as they point out, these are the most sensitive to preparation).  So you don't really lose anything, unless you are trying to make a spot decision based on what you read on a label instead of eating the foods you planned for the day/week.  If you are making the spot decision you've already lost, so why help people when they are doing it wrong? 

I'd love more accurate labels but I'm not going to sweat it.  Protein consumption is limited to grams per lean kg so if you are on a 2500 cal daily diet we're talking the difference between 300 and 375 calories for a person with 140lbs of lean mass.  Since this would be an overestimate of the calories you've taken in you should lose 4kg a year just hitting the 2500/day mark exactly.  Really, the particularities are already baked into the system because the guidlines just aren't accurate enough to warrent the additional precision in component measurement.

Anyway, excessive preparation removes non-calorie nutritional value and misses an opportunity to increase your basal energy requirements by eating hard to digest foods (though excessive proteins can be hard on the kidneys).

[Salamok]

Speaking of calories I found this somewhat interesting: The Calorie Delusion: Why Food Labels Are Incorrect.

Not sure about the science but on the common sense level it sounded good to me.

I cannot speak to all the science in the article, but at least some of it is correct, such as cooking foods denaturing proteins and making them more easily digestible.

I think it lays a fine ground work for my new "don't chew your food" diet!

[Nebu]

Speaking of calories I found this somewhat interesting: The Calorie Delusion: Why Food Labels Are Incorrect.

Not sure about the science but on the common sense level it sounded good to me.

Interesting article.  They do bring up some points that really highlight just how out of date our thinking about caloric content really is. 

The food lobby wants to keep the customer ignorant as much as possible.  Doing things like counting < 0.5g as 0g and using old bomb calorimetry data is just the tip of the iceberg. 

Must resist turning this into a biochemistry discussion.  I love metabolic biochemistry.  It fascinates me. 

[Broughden]

It's really your last sentence that nails it.  It isn't that exercising won't work, it's more that people either don't know what they are doing and/or lack self control.

People also need to be talking more about how simply adding muscle to your frame will increase your metabolism significantly, making "watching your weight" a whole hell of a lot easier.

Yeah it said that was a myth as well. Well it was true but not enough to matter. That you might earn an additional 10 lbs of muscle which would lead to burning a whopping extra 20 calories a day or something insignificantly small.

Diet was the key.

[Salamok]

It's really your last sentence that nails it.  It isn't that exercising won't work, it's more that people either don't know what they are doing and/or lack self control.

People also need to be talking more about how simply adding muscle to your frame will increase your metabolism significantly, making "watching your weight" a whole hell of a lot easier.

Yeah it said that was a myth as well. Well it was true but not enough to matter. That you might earn an additional 10 lbs of muscle which would lead to burning a whopping extra 20 calories a day or something insignificantly small.

I would think the results would be relative to your condition when you added the 10lbs of muscle.  A fitness junky bulking up another 10 lbs of muscle would not see the same shift in the metabolism as someone who sat on his ass for the last decade and just started to get into shape.

[MrHat]

It's really your last sentence that nails it.  It isn't that exercising won't work, it's more that people either don't know what they are doing and/or lack self control.

People also need to be talking more about how simply adding muscle to your frame will increase your metabolism significantly, making "watching your weight" a whole hell of a lot easier.

Yeah it said that was a myth as well. Well it was true but not enough to matter. That you might earn an additional 10 lbs of muscle which would lead to burning a whopping extra 20 calories a day or something insignificantly small.

I would think the results would be relative to your condition when you added the 10lbs of muscle.  A fitness junky bulking up another 10 lbs of muscle would not see the same shift in the metabolism as someone who sat on his ass for the last decade and just started to get into shape.

As someone who sat on his ass for half a decade, gaining even some muscle lead to me doing lots of activity I would've passed up otherwise.

Like getting up to change the channel on the TV.  Or getting out of bed in the morning when I first wake up.

[Nebu]

Think of it this way.  3500 calories is a VERY rough equivalent to 1 lb.  To lose 1lb a week you either eat a lot less, exercise a lot more, or do both in moderation.  The later is the easiest. 

Muscle being more dense than fat throws this out the window, but only at low body fat %.  Also, for every pound you lose only about 70% of that is fat and the other 30% of that is muscle.  Most weightlifters will use this in combination with more muscle = higher metabolism to do bulk gaining followed by hard cutting. 

I'm sure this is just a repeat of something I've said on some other thread within the last 4 years.   Just trying to help.

[Cyrrex]

Think of it this way.  3500 calories is a VERY rough equivalent to 1 lb.  To lose 1lb a week you either eat a lot less, exercise a lot more, or do both in moderation.  The later is the easiest. 

Muscle being more dense than fat throws this out the window, but only at low body fat %.  Also, for every pound you lose only about 70% of that is fat and the other 30% of that is muscle.  Most weightlifters will use this in combination with more muscle = higher metabolism to do bulk gaining followed by hard cutting. 

I'm sure this is just a repeat of something I've said on some other thread within the last 4 years.   Just trying to help.

It's worthwhile.  This idea that dieting alone is the solve for all your weight problems is pretty near-sighted.  I'll say the same thing I say in every thread of this sort:  people need to be better at setting specific goals, and then spend time learning the best way to achieve them.  Losing weight and achieving your ideal body image aren't necessarily the same thing, and quite often require a different path to get there.

[Murgos]

It's worthwhile.  This idea that dieting alone is the solve for all your weight problems is pretty near-sighted.

I don't think anyone espoused that point of view and it certainly wasn't what in what you quoted from Nebu.

For math geek speak, the point that people are trying to make is that the forcing function for weight loss is caloric intake.  Caloric intake trumps anything else you do so you MUST get a handle on that first.

Burning 1000 Calories a day above and beyond your normal metabolic rate is great and has benefits all it's own but you're not going to lose an ounce if you're consuming 3500.  Which, as was pointed out, is often what happens when someone commits to a new, strenuous exercise routine.