Space Marine - Relic goes 3PS console action

[kildorn]

Deep gameplay?

The intro, while not canon at ALL, is worth the price of admission imo.

Seriously, the set pieces in this game are properly.. epic. I only played about an hour, but it was an awesome freaking hour. Though I appear to have forgotten how to fight nobs, or it's a lot different than the demo's build. Because I can't seem to reliably stun them at all anymore.

[Ghambit]

Regardless of canon, no PC 3rd person action shooter is worth $50-$60 w/o a viable MP component.  This isnt the 90's.  So like God of War, it's been relegated to a console rental at BBuster...  Gamefly at best.  I wouldnt drop any more coin than that and I've got a closet full of WH shit.  Fun or not.

I mean cmon guys, all it had to do was be Gears of War in Ultramarine skin.  It would've been console Game of the Year easy under those circumstances.  Now, I dunno really what we've got here 'cept a buncha 'epic setpieces.'  That's nice and all but not $60 nice.

[kildorn]

It is GoW in a space marine skin, essentially. They're just late on the coop (which is, essentially, Horde Mode from GoW), but have C&H and Deathmatch out of the box.

I mean, I could understand "GoW isn't worth $60 and thus this isn't either", but this is really just Gears, with 40k's sense of excessive scale. If you're willing to drop $60 on GoW3 without hesitation, you should be pretty willing to drop it on this, too.

I'm not thrilled by the MP component, but I also think Gear's multiplayer is pretty shitty as well. Coop campaign would have been absolutely awesome, but apparently we can't have nice things.

[murdoc]

I'm not thrilled by the MP component, but I also think Gear's multiplayer is pretty shitty as well. Coop campaign would have been absolutely awesome, but apparently we can't have nice things.

Except GoW will have 4 player multiplayer campaign out of the box.

The love for this game confuses me. It's a console game, which would generally get a lot of hate around here. I thought it was good, but I see no reason why you would buy it for a PC. It's a largely on-rails third person shooter in a Warhammer skin.

[Nebu]

The love for this game confuses me. It's a console game, which would generally get a lot of hate around here. I thought it was good, but I see no reason why you would buy it for a PC. It's a largely on-rails third person shooter in a Warhammer skin.

That's exactly how I felt, but I was afraid to comment.  When games get love around here, their unbridled support often defies logic. 

[kildorn]

My love of it is essentially that console games aren't BAD in my mind. I just dislike some of them. Gears annoys me because it's Huge Burly Men running around shooting at other Huge Burly Essentially Men, with really a game world that doesn't engage me at all. I really don't get the flavor of the world in the least, really.

My love of 40k is that I actually like the game world, and unrealistic as it may be, the melee combat in Space Marine is entertaining. But basically, I like 40k. It's a fun setting, and properly mocking of itself in it's hilarious scale. This is a game that's basically a romp through a setting you may or may not already enjoy.

It's an on rails action game. I'm okay with that, because I can't imagine what else it would be. Unless I'm going to start crawling in vents avoiding fights and sneaking around as a space marine, "go here shoot everything you see" makes perfect sense.

[Nebu]

It's an on rails action game. I'm okay with that, because I can't imagine what else it would be. Unless I'm going to start crawling in vents avoiding fights and sneaking around as a space marine, "go here shoot everything you see" makes perfect sense.

Isn't that exactly what Call of Duty was?  Perhaps it's the 40k connection that's doing it.  I've never been a 40k fan. 

[Ghambit]

Gears of War was built around MP-coop campaign, SM wasnt.  Comparing the two after that is fruitless, which was my argument basically.  I hate the GoW theme also, much like Kildorn does, but it's still a mechanically superior concept to what we've now got with SM; which is a halfway done game in typical WH-style, relying on the fruits of brit-geekdom from 20 yrs. past.  It's sad.

Not sayin it's a bad game, it's just not a $50 PC game and definitely not a game you drop $60 on for a console.  Rent it for a week, bleed it dry of its glory and then shelf it.  Then go play with your 40k minis on sundays in your garage.

[Nonentity]

Haven't tried the single player yet, but the multiplayer is pretty fun. I get to make my Space Marine pink and white and jump around hit people with a power axe.

[Ghambit]

 

[Ingmar]

Guys, this isn't a game that warrants a lot of deep analysis. You are a space marine. You kill things in various entertaining ways, with an occasional bit of dialogue in between to remind you FOR THE EMPEROR etc. For probably about 8-10 hours in the single player, and until you get sick of it in multiplayer.

It is perfectly understandable if you don't want to drop $50 on that. It appears there's probably about as much single player 'game' as in Arkham Asylum, minus the challenge stuff but then it adds multiplayer. But if we're going to start calling games with no co-op "halfway done" well that's a hell of a long fucking list suddenly, isn't it?

[kildorn]

Please tell me you played the intro last night, Ingmar <3 <3

[Ingmar]

Please tell me you played the intro last night, Ingmar <3 <3

I'm at Chapter 8 or so.

[Sjofn]

Haven't tried the single player yet, but the multiplayer is pretty fun. I get to make my Space Marine pink and white and jump around hit people with a power axe.

I love dressing up in pink in stupid GRR MANLY MAN MANZ games like this. 

[Fordel]

The game rewards aggression, It's been so long since I've played a game that rewarded aggression the way it does.

[Azazel]

The co-op is apparently NOT the campaign, and we don't get it til October:

Well this pretty much moves it from 'pre-order' to '66%+ Steam sale'. Having played the demo, the gameplay isn't deep enough to justify a full price purchase for single player and no co-op campaign means it isn't even worth picking up when that releases. Disappointed. This would have been a great co-op campaign game.

I have to agree with you. What got me to preorder the Special Edition instead of waiting was the art book, as I have a collection of GW & 40k Art books. MP will hopefully be enough fun to tide me over till BF3 comes out.

[Azazel]

It is GoW in a space marine skin, essentially.
, but this is really just Gears, with 40k's sense of excessive scale.

I think the emphasis on cover in GoW probably defines that game from a lot of other 3PS (especisally when it first came out). Space Marine eschews that whole mechanic and further does so in terms of healing being a result of close combat executions rather than hiding behind a rock, so using that logic, you may as well just say that Battlefield is a reskin of Call of Duty.

[Azazel]

The love for this game confuses me. It's a console game, which would generally get a lot of hate around here. I thought it was good, but I see no reason why you would buy it for a PC. It's a largely on-rails third person shooter in a Warhammer skin.

1) I'm a long-time Warhammer player. As are quite a few others here.
2) Really? You have been reading as well as posting for the last 3 years haven't you?
3) I planned to buy it for 360 right up till I compared the demos for both and found that the PC version allows you to actually aim your weapons effectively. You can also reskin your guy as (insert chapter name here).
4) Also apparently the first good non-DoW 40k game in forever. Certainly the first visceral 40k action game. Refer 1).

[amiable]

I am quite enjoying it, my only complaints are:

1.  Rails.  I would like a bit more of an open war.
2.  Character development -  I would like a few more options other than getting the next weapon.  An ME style character development system would completely rock with this game.
3.  Sisters of Battle - It would be nice to have a female character sisters option, it may convince my wife to play, she gets really furious at games that do not allow you gender selection.

The combat though is fantastic and they got the feel of the game world spot on.

[JWIV]

I am quite enjoying it, my only complaints are:

1.  Rails.  I would like a bit more of an open war.
2.  Character development -  I would like a few more options other than getting the next weapon.  An ME style character development system would completely rock with this game.
3.  Sisters of Battle - It would be nice to have a female character sisters option, it may convince my wife to play, she gets really furious at games that do not allow you gender selection.

The combat though is fantastic and they got the feel of the game world spot on.

Sisters of Battle would be a really nice touch. 

[Kitsune]

[geek]Sisters of Battle aren't surgically modified monsters like space marines, they're normal-ish humans in power armor.  They aren't in the same league for toe to toe combat with armies of bad things, which is why they work with the Inquisition for hunting down heretics instead of going around purging worlds of alien armies like the marines do.  Lore-wise it makes no sense for one of the Sisters to be a stand-in for a marine.[/geek]

That said, yeah, it would be nice of GW to throw the ladies a bone and break up the sausage fest a bit by letting the Sisters have at least a tiny smidgen of spotlight.

[Ingmar]

The fact that there's a female character at all is something of a surprise, really.

[Azazel]

Yeah, was about to post essentially what Kitsune said in that they're not directly analogous to Marines in the game, and particularly not in the lore - in-game, Orks are a much closer match 1-on-1 for a regular marine. Though a Captain would still kick ass, he could lose to these large swarms of Orks. Meanwhile in the lore a single SM is enough to fight off Hordes of Orks - much as in this game.

The game's not by GW, it's Relic. And it's called "Space Marine". Maybe in sequels they might open it up a little more and have a token SoB level, but I think we're more likely to see a token Grey Knight or IG level.

Character development - it's not an RPG or RPG-styled game. And a SM captain is pretty much already at the peak of his skill tree. Not really sure it's the right/same genre for ME-style character development.

[Sjofn]

It's ... hard to explain. I understand the "we want it to be THIS ONE DUDE." I do! I get the lore behind it and everything. But I cannot blame women at this point to finally be like "You know what? Fuck you. I am sick to goddamn death of Male as the Default and if I can't play my own gender, you can go fuck yourself, game. I will spend my dollars on games that it either doesn't come up (the dreaded CASUAL GAMES like Bejeweled), or where I can pick what I am." I am not a big fan of it, and a game has to be really, really fun for me to give it a chance when it does that now. And sometimes not even then, depending on how lazy it strikes me.

If women weren't still so obviously so far out of consideration for most games as to be basically invisible, in spite of the fact there actually are a lot of us, I think stuff like Space Marine would bother women less. Because then it becomes less "once again they assume the white dude is the ONE THING WE CAN ALL IDENTIFY WITH" and more "this is the character we are taking through this, alright then." I know there are games where the only choice is a lady. But most of the time, those ladies are still constructed with the straight man audience in mind. So it's still not exactly going to help get us all to the point where "Oh, OK, I guess it being this one dude makes sense" overrides the feeling of "HA HA DON'T EVEN PRETEND YOU EXIST, WOMEN GAMERS" more than it currently does. 

Also: I was indeed pleased to see the lady character. I wasn't expecting to see ANY, and she's a pretty good character to boot (so far, anyway, I only just met her).

[Trippy]

[geek]Sisters of Battle aren't surgically modified monsters like space marines, they're normal-ish humans in power armor.  They aren't in the same league for toe to toe combat with armies of bad things, which is why they work with the Inquisition for hunting down heretics instead of going around purging worlds of alien armies like the marines do.  Lore-wise it makes no sense for one of the Sisters to be a stand-in for a marine.[/geek]

That said, yeah, it would be nice of GW to throw the ladies a bone and break up the sausage fest a bit by letting the Sisters have at least a tiny smidgen of spotlight.

No it makes total sense. The Sisters of Battle could've been sent down to investigate the actions of a heretical/traitorous Inquisitor, for example.

[climbjtree]

I just want to see other races in MP. Why not Orks? The models are already in the game and they have Tac/Assault/Dev equivalents.

[Morfiend]

Can anyone with the game confirm or deny if the release version has 16:10 aspect ratio, as the demo only has 16:9 which is slightly annoying for me.

[Azazel]

It's ... hard to explain. I understand the "we want it to be THIS ONE DUDE." I do! I get the lore behind it and everything. But I cannot blame women at this point to finally be like "You know what? Fuck you. I am sick to goddamn death of Male as the Default and if I can't play my own gender, you can go fuck yourself, game.

I get what you're saying, but basically the lore overrides your girl-rage. The game is called SPACE MARINE, and is about the most high-profile, best-selling part of GW's IP. It's not about the Adepa Sorotitas, or the Imperial Guard, or the Inquisition. It's about Space Marines, and they are all male.

It's like if people were bitching that a game about Joan of Arc didn't feature a male lead, in this particular case. There'd be more grounds for grizzling if the game had segments where you played as other characters, but it doesn't, so, you know, bad luck and stfu and so forth. (I don't mean it in a nasty way towards yourself). If in a sequel they have a section where you control another character, then sure, put the Sisters in for that segment. Or if there's a co-op gameplay part, throw a Sister in there as one of the choices (though since SMs are better than them at everything, I'm not sure how that would work - as it's not like Gears of War or Halo, etc, in that sense, fluff-wise. Seriously, piss and moan about another game for that sort of thing.

Oh, and anyone who thinks that their pet idea/peeve overrides the lore or should do so, you're missing the whole point of this game - which is that the lore is the strongest part of the game. We're not talking about cutting-edge gameplay here, after all.

I guess it comes down to:
1) Is the character or the story more important? - If character - then go with whoever the story is about as your main character.
 * A Space Marine game should be about a Space Marine. Duke Nukem should be about Duke, etc. Splinter Cell should be about Sam Fisher. Tomb Raider is about Lara Croft. etc.

2) If the story is more important - then use a character most appropriate to the story. If appropriate, offer a choice of gender.
 * Cole Phelps as a male makes more sense as a cop in the 1940s, as do the male characters in Mafia 2
 * Commander Shepherd in ME/2 or the protaganist in Saints Row 2/3 are secondary to the story, which is generic enough to accomodate both/either.
 * If it doesn't matter at all - offer both genders - even for multiple roles - the characters in Borderlands could alloffer either gender and be character-renamable. Halo Reach? It's not about Master Chef - so let people choose their own character.


climbjtree -
Why not Orks? Because they'd get wiped out in seconds compared to Marines or CSMs. The game would need more depth to properly accomodate other races. Hopefully in the sequel. (which includes those Sisters, amongst many others).

[Fordel]

Can anyone with the game confirm or deny if the release version has 16:10 aspect ratio, as the demo only has 16:9 which is slightly annoying for me.

No 16:10, there's like 85:45 or something, does that help?  (I have never heard of that size of res, wtf is it for? The 85:45 that is)

[Sjofn]

It's ... hard to explain. I understand the "we want it to be THIS ONE DUDE." I do! I get the lore behind it and everything. But I cannot blame women at this point to finally be like "You know what? Fuck you. I am sick to goddamn death of Male as the Default and if I can't play my own gender, you can go fuck yourself, game.

I get what you're saying, but basically the lore overrides your girl-rage. The game is called SPACE MARINE, and is about the most high-profile, best-selling part of GW's IP. It's not about the Adepa Sorotitas, or the Imperial Guard, or the Inquisition. It's about Space Marines, and they are all male.

I already said I got it. It's right there in my quote, even. I was simply explaining why that's not going to fly with a lot of women that you may want to give your game a try. We're sick of "oh, but they're ALL MALE, we can't help it" for what feels like every other goddamn game. The gaming industry has a long way to go before "oh, our hands are tied IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE ALL MALE" gets the benefit of the doubt it sometimes deserves.

[Trippy]

Can anyone with the game confirm or deny if the release version has 16:10 aspect ratio, as the demo only has 16:9 which is slightly annoying for me.

No 16:10, there's like 85:45 or something, does that help?  (I have never heard of that size of res, wtf is it for? The 85:45 that is)

Yes there is 16:10 (labeled as 8:5) but it only goes up to 1680x1050 -- no 1920x1200 or 2560x1600.

[Fordel]

Oh right, 8:5 = 16:10, Fordel sux at math :(

[Kail]

climbjtree -
Why not Orks? Because they'd get wiped out in seconds compared to Marines or CSMs. The game would need more depth to properly accomodate other races. Hopefully in the sequel. (which includes those Sisters, amongst many others).

This argument gets pulled out too frequently.  There are ways to include Space Marines (or Jedi or Wizards or whatever the alpha badass is in the IP you're using) in these games without having them insta-kill everyone they meet.  There are Orks in the single player game which are about as tough as the rank and file CSM you fight.  Or they could just balance the MP game separately and say "we buffed Orks to make the game fair" since the idea that the multiplayer in this game is somehow in canon seems unlikely to me.

I suspect it was more an art constraint thing.  I'd love to see some DLC for Orks or Sisters or other stuff, though.  Kind of jarring to go from Dawn of War which had, like, nine playable factions, to this game with two.

On a separate note, does anyone know what the difference between the axe and the chainsword is?  I'm just getting into multiplayer, and I'm not really clear on the pros and cons of each.  The 1p game kept offering both throughout the game, like it was some kind of balanced choice, but I'm not sure why I'd choose one over the other.

[Fordel]

I have no idea on the multiplayer differences, but in single player the ChainSword is easier to control and build fury with, while the PowerAxe will do more damage and crack into the tougher enemies easier.


They were both cast aside once I got my Stormhammer 

[Azazel]

I already said I got it. It's right there in my quote, even. I was simply explaining why that's not going to fly with a lot of women that you may want to give your game a try. We're sick of "oh, but they're ALL MALE, we can't help it" for what feels like every other goddamn game. The gaming industry has a long way to go before "oh, our hands are tied IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE ALL MALE" gets the benefit of the doubt it sometimes deserves.

I know you said that - it's why I said I wasn't trying to be offensive, but this particular bitching (from anyone) would carry more weight to me if it were being given towards a game that's a new IP, or a new story set in an existing world with a gender-doesnt matter character rather than something as specific as this with close to 25 years behind it.

I'm not even disagreeing with your larger point - I actually agree with you with the caveats in my post above! Deus Ex HR which is busily being spooged over left and right in another thread is much more deserving of this kind of complaint than Space Marine. In fact your whole rant posted above would be much more appropriate in that thread and even make a lot of sense. Where here it doesn't so much. Why can't Adam Jensen be Adama?