StarCraft II Beta

[Phry]

Bored and looking for a fight so i'm trying to cancel my preorder :D 

"I'm sorry you've already received your promotion code so we cannot cancel your order."

  Time to make someone cry!  Weeeeeeeeee

[Malakili]

Day 9 analyzing a silver level game.   I found this actually incredibly interesting/informative.  Really shows the little things that separate great players from mediocre players.  Its not just strategy, its quite apparent that these players know more or less what to do, but its the little mistakes they make throughout that add up.   I think its worth watching for anyone who watches a lot of high level replays and trys to emulate the strategies, but has trouble with execution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDyCPhS1gMc

[ezrast]

That made me want to play this game less than ever.

[Malakili]

That made me want to play this game less than ever.

I can see why, and I don't think i'll be playing Sc2, maybe not at all, and definitely not competitively, but for some reason I still like to watch the videos.

 That beind said,   I need at least one "competitive" game at all times.  I played sports my whole life, and online gaming has taken that place for my competitive itch now that I don't feel like taking part in any men's leagues or whatever.  I don't like SC2 as much as DoW2, which is why DoW2 is currently that game for me, but I think the competitive SC2 scene is interesting, academically if nothing else.

[tgr]

Speaking of competitive playing, apparently it might not be as well thought out for gamers as initially thought:

http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/battle-net-2-0-the-antithesis-of-consumer-confidence

“You agree that you will not, under any circumstances…use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent;” – Starcraft II Battle.net Terms of Use, Current as of May 28th

Want to run a major Starcraft II tournament?  Hope you got money.  Blizzard wants a cut.  Yeah, Blizzard isn’t tossing lawyers at your college tournament.  And why bother?  Saw what happened at the University of Central Florida?  Where 100 gamers showed up for a tournament and found out Battle.net could only handle twelve university network users at once?  And then Battle.net crashed during the round of sixteen and threw the legitimacy of the event into question?  Blizzard isn’t worried.  The company set up the system so you can’t compete with them.  It just sells the message: “Thanks for making Starcraft a spectator sport, fans.  Now fuck off.“

[bhodi]

It's in their push to monetize every previously free aspect of b.net that I talked about a few pages ago.

[LK]

You got Kotick in my Browder.

[Thrawn]

My reaction to that 6 months ago would of been "No way Blizzard would screw up Bnet that badly, its the core of the game!"

Now I'm not so sure, might be joining the crowd of cancling my pre-order. Or at least no longer being a sucker and getting the CE.

[Phry]

Well hell only took me 2 emails, i was hoping for a fight... anyways got it canceled

[ezrast]

“You agree that you will not, under any circumstances…use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent;” – Starcraft II Battle.net Terms of Use, Current as of May 28th

Okay, now I want to play this less than ever.

[Samwise]

Blizzard's fanboys are second in their ferocity only to Apple's.  It's about time they realized that and started dishing out the punishment their users crave.  

[Astorax]

“You agree that you will not, under any circumstances…use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent;” – Starcraft II Battle.net Terms of Use, Current as of May 28th

Okay, now I want to play this less than ever.

Why is that a bad thing again?

All it's doing is prohibiting 3rd parties from using the battle.net platform to promote/host a competition without asking Blizzard first.

Think of it like this...could you host a gigantic party at a community center without asking their permission first?  No.  You can't...so why should battle.net be any different?

I'm not a Blizz fanboi by any stretch of the imagination, but I am all for protecting your financial interests in something you've created, which is what they're doing.

Edit:  The BIGGER question is, how often they say no to people asking...and what sort of terms they enforce on such actions.  Having a clause saying you have to ask first isn't a big deal...how they enforce it is.

[ezrast]

In what situation would it make sense to enforce the clause on a non-profit? That analogy is shit; Battle.net isn't a local community center and Blizzard isn't affected in the least by 32 schmucks all logging in at the same time and playing some games together. The strictest possible interpretation would be that you and your friend can't play together if you connect from your local gaming cafe, and the loosest possible would be, I dunno, probably still something silly.

[Malakili]

“You agree that you will not, under any circumstances…use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent;” – Starcraft II Battle.net Terms of Use, Current as of May 28th

Okay, now I want to play this less than ever.

Why is that a bad thing again?

All it's doing is prohibiting 3rd parties from using the battle.net platform to promote/host a competition without asking Blizzard first.

Think of it like this...could you host a gigantic party at a community center without asking their permission first?  No.  You can't...so why should battle.net be any different?

I'm not a Blizz fanboi by any stretch of the imagination, but I am all for protecting your financial interests in something you've created, which is what they're doing.

Edit:  The BIGGER question is, how often they say no to people asking...and what sort of terms they enforce on such actions.  Having a clause saying you have to ask first isn't a big deal...how they enforce it is.

The problem is the first take out playing off of bnet, then make this rule.  Connected very much to the lack of lan support, when you think about it.  Its simply giving people WORSE service and charging them for it.  Thats the problem.

[Typhon]

AND only sell regionalized versions.  I don't think anyone is saying that Blizzard shouldn't be getting a piece of the big tournaments.  Where it goes into  land is that, even without the EULA agreement, no decently sized local tournaments will be able to be held (given the University of Central Florida experience), and definitely no multinational tournaments will be held (given the regionalization).

As if all that isn't bad enough, the restrictions and wording on who owns the IP of maps that get created basically says that no one is creating the next DotA (whatever that looks like) on SC2.

Given that this is the company that owns WoW and MW2, it just seems really, really greedy and really, really contemptuous of the customer.  Sad to see Blizzard losing control.

[LK]

I see a company attempting to reproduce continual WoW-level profit on models that cannot nor will not sustain it.

[Astorax]

In what situation would it make sense to enforce the clause on a non-profit? That analogy is shit; Battle.net isn't a local community center and Blizzard isn't affected in the least by 32 schmucks all logging in at the same time and playing some games together. The strictest possible interpretation would be that you and your friend can't play together if you connect from your local gaming cafe, and the loosest possible would be, I dunno, probably still something silly.

non-profit does not mean they aren't in positions to sell advertising...which I still believe the function behind that clause...to make money off using their platform as the venue for a virtual event of some kind.

I could very well be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

A larger issue is the regionalization and the problems that will have.  That's going to limit things in ways I don't think they've thought through all the way.

For the record, nothing in that EULA statement will stop you and 32 of your friends from logging in together at an internet cafe and staging your own tournament.  Not even a loose interpretation of the rule would give them even half a leg to stand on to come after anyone in that situation.

[LK]

That's fine with them. As long as all those copies of the game are validated and paid for.

[Rasix]

That's fine with them. As long as all those copies of the game are validated and paid for.

Battle.net pretty much insures that. Seems like a win for Blizzard here.   

[ezrast]

For the record, nothing in that EULA statement will stop you and 32 of your friends from logging in together at an internet cafe and staging your own tournament.  Not even a loose interpretation of the rule would give them even half a leg to stand on to come after anyone in that situation.

Are you suggesting that such a thing is not a group competition facilitated by a commercial entity, or merely that the EULA is clearly unenforceable (and therefore silly)? If the former you'll have to explain it to me, and if the latter than I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

[Fordel]

A few pages back someone asked what a BioBall was, I think this short replay illustrates it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8CMTf3KuHc

[Trippy]

I like that TotalBiscuit dude.

[Fordel]

TotalBiscuit is easily the most entertaining of the commentators out there. He may not have the supreme technical knowledge like Day9 or whoever, but he's a lot more fun to listen to.

[Margalis]

All it's doing is prohibiting 3rd parties from using the battle.net platform to promote/host a competition without asking Blizzard first.
...
I'm not a Blizz fanboi by any stretch of the imagination, but I am all for protecting your financial interests in something you've created, which is what they're doing.

The fuck?

When you buy the game you are buying unlimited access to BNet for online play. All a tournament is is people playing online in an organized way. This is not "protecting financial interest" this is preventing people from using a product and service they've paid for.

THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF BATTLE.NET IS COMPETITION. Period. That is literally the only reason it exists, that is the only thing it allows people to do - compete. Any time you say "hey, want to get on Battle.net and play some games" and then you do so you are promoting/hosting a competition.

If Blizzard is hosting a tournament then they may have some claim to the content of that tournament, that it cannot be rebroadcast without their consent etc etc. But if they sell a product most of the point of which is to play online preventing people from playing online without Blizzard's permission is laughable.

Almost overnight Blizzard seems to have become ridiculously tone-deaf.

[Abagadro]

It will be interesting to see how that works in practice. My suspicion is that that kind of clause is the kind of shit that lawyers think up because we are all nuts and have to justify how much we charge people.  Doesn't mean it will mean dick-all in the real world.

[Trippy]

It will be interesting to see how that works in practice. My suspicion is that that kind of clause is the kind of shit that lawyers think up because we are all nuts and have to justify how much we charge people.  Doesn't mean it will mean dick-all in the real world.

Blizzard is not shy about taking people to court over EULA and other IP violations, however.

[Wolf]

I'm holding off judgement before we see the beta return at the end of the month, as far as bnet 2.0 is concerned. If it's still as broken, we'll we have a problem.

That clause has been in the EULA for the whole beta, and there was noone that has asked and has not recieved permision to host a tournament. It's there to prevent a second KeSPA situation. They will never bother with HDH 3, but they will bother with a company that sells the broadcasting rights to a tournament watched by millions of people and sponsored by a fucking airline/bank.

Although I would've never thought Blizzard will fall to bobby. It's a pretty sad affair. I get all the WoW stuff - cosmetic charter stuff, mounts, etc; but this is looking more and more like a money grab over and otherwise amazing game :(

[Margalis]

It will be interesting to see how that works in practice. My suspicion is that that kind of clause is the kind of shit that lawyers think up because we are all nuts and have to justify how much we charge people.  Doesn't mean it will mean dick-all in the real world.

Blizzard has made it very obvious that they greatly resent that tournaments have kept Starcraft alive for years without making them any money. They are trying to move into the broadcast tournament scene to grab a piece of that pie.

[Vision]

My biggest question is whether the merger with Activision, or the extreme money void WoW became, is what inspired this new wave of money suck-cluster fuck (rhyme).

I hate acting fanatical about anything, least of all video games. But if what is predicted in the previously linked article comes to pass, one of the great things about what it means to play videogames will have died in my eyes.

Paid subscription in Russia?? Seriously?

[Wolf]

Actually I'd be pretty happy if we had what russia has. Their client costs $30 and includes 6 months of playtime. Afaik further playtime is bought in bunches of 6 and costs less than the client. Presumably a russian would have played an year and a half before they pay as much as you or me.

[tgr]

If I wanted a specific game (like SC2), then the $50-$60 pricetag isn't really a huge problem, if it meant I actually had the old liberties with the game. I'm not even talking about the spawn-a-copy functionality, just the basic run when I want, where I want, and avoid external resources like the internet if I'm at a cabin or a LAN party where we don't have internet/the internet is on the fritz.

I'm more annoyed with the usage limitations than I have ever been over the price.

[Trippy]

Actually I'd be pretty happy if we had what russia has. Their client costs $30 and includes 6 months of playtime. Afaik further playtime is bought in bunches of 6 and costs less than the client. Presumably a russian would have played an year and a half before they pay as much as you or me.

I've played StarCraft on and off since it first came out. Though I have purchased multiple copies over that time it's still be a far far better deal than if I would've had to pay a subscription fee to play.

[Wolf]

I said that I'd be happier. E60 price tag here in Bulgaria is considerably different than a E60 price tag in germany and france. Which they seem to realise with Russia. It will make the game infintely more accessible, but nope, we're stuck with E60. Which is about 1/10th of a _very_ decent sallary, one that most people don't have.

[tgr]

The reason for that is probably that otherwise, tons of games would be bought in Bulgaria and exported. It still sucks, I didn't know it was actually that bad.

If it had been that bad here in Norway, then I would be literally livid about the whole thing. As it is right now, I'm somewhere between annoyed, resigned, and indifferent.

[Wolf]

Well the thing is Activision is not letting semi-localization (box and manual), which would kill re-exporting, for quantities below 10,000 units. At the same time Amazon.co.uk is selling the full english version for 34,99 pounds, which is close to 40 Euro. So it's ok for them to sell the full english version at basically the lowest price outside of fully localized eastern european versions (poland, russia), but it's not ok to let us have at least a decent lower end-client pricing or even semi-localize some 2,000 units to saturate our market and keep everyone happy.

Like I said, there's at least a way out for the Russian market, so more people can actually play the game. That's one of the few things they've handled good as far as distribution goes, even if it seems like a money grab at first glance. The rest of the situation all over Europe is more or less worse than bnet 2.0 :)

on a brighter note the trailer is out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxXTADR2I1s