StarCraft II Beta

[Malakili]

The first replay I see with Thors and it is pure cheese 

Dude's Ego hits you for 999 damage!

"This is just a casual game."  "Look at this stoopid noob!"  "OMG!  He didn't place the building five feet to the right, what an idiot."  "I'll be honest with you... he sucks."

This game is definitely not for me.  Thanks for the preview.

Well, fact of the matter is, if you do something like build a second pylon before a gateway, you're in big trouble against most people.  Its the kind of thing that frustrated the crap out of me, one less than optimal choice and you're probably going to lose if the other person didn't make a similar mistake.  90% of every game I was trying just not to make mistakes instead of actually ...ya know...playing.

[Wolf]

qualtiy starcraft:

http://www.youtube.com/nevake - Team Liquid's Channel, most of it is without commentary, but they're only good games.

http://www.youtube.com/MajorLeagueGaming - MLG's king of the beta hill series is amazing. And Day[9] is probably the best starcraft caster out there, he's geniunily in love with the game and has deep, deep knowledge about it.

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/11695-vods-gosucup-starcraft-2-beta-invitational-ro16 - VODs from GosuGamer's SC2 Beta Invitational ro16; good stuff - Still haven't seen liquid'nazgul (p), mondragon (z) - it's basicaly one of the best forigners vs the most dominant forigner (read: non-korean) in the bw scene; should be AMAZING. I have had a mancrush on mondragon for ages :P

http://www.livestream.com/striderdoom - Day[9]s channel on livestream, has some Zotac tournament casts, stay away from any of the daily stuff, unless you're REALLY into starcraft :)

http://www.youtube.com/sc2ggrise - Rise has been doing some commentaries, but he's mostly doing US players and mostly Team EG, which are lagging quite a bit behind the top EU players.

I'll post more stuff if there's interest :)

[Wolf]

The first replay I see with Thors and it is pure cheese 

Dude's Ego hits you for 999 damage!

"This is just a casual game."  "Look at this stoopid noob!"  "OMG!  He didn't place the building five feet to the right, what an idiot."  "I'll be honest with you... he sucks."

This game is definitely not for me.  Thanks for the preview.

Well, fact of the matter is, if you do something like build a second pylon before a gateway, you're in big trouble against most people.  Its the kind of thing that frustrated the crap out of me, one less than optimal choice and you're probably going to lose if the other person didn't make a similar mistake.  90% of every game I was trying just not to make mistakes instead of actually ...ya know...playing.

btw, it's probably just not your game. This is what Starcraft is. If it was anything else I'd be pretty pissed; There will be a SHITLOAD of DoTA type stuff in the full game though, plus comp stopms, etc. Competitive play will not be the only thing there is :)

[Lantyssa]

I'll get it five years later when it's $20 and play the campaigns then.  The $60 pricetag is a little more than I'd be willing to pay even if I thought it was Robot Jesus.

[Mosesandstick]

Wait, are you saying DOTA isn't competitive? Most people who play DOTA are slobbering retards with no social skills who just want to scream and rant at people who are worse than them (no offense intended, and jk btw). Actually they don't even need to be worse. Everybody just tries to tell everybody else what to do.

[Teleku]

I haven't played WoW in years, and I want to buy the collectors edition just to have the Thor pet.

[Ingmar]

Hmmm I'm not seeing all that much of a basis for DoTA style play in SC2 - no hero units, no inventory or items, no leveling. And that stuff isn't in the single player either.

[Mosesandstick]

Possibly, but considering the probable depth of the SC2 map editor I imagine it won't be that hard to make one. I'm also pretty damn sure Blizzard knows this as well 

[K9]

Hmmm I'm not seeing all that much of a basis for DoTA style play in SC2 - no hero units, no inventory or items, no leveling. And that stuff isn't in the single player either.

Don't underestimate the Galaxy editor. Based on the previews I have seen floating around that thing is astonishingly powerful; to the extent of writing your own game-within-game level of modification I think.

Also, since when was online gaming not dominated by a bunch of arrogant wannabe-fratboys? Especially in competitive gaming.

[K9]

The galaxy editor preview from Blizzcon (recap)

[Teleku]

This game is All multi player games are definitely not for me.  Thanks for the preview.

Seriously, I don't think I've ever played single multi player game game ever where I wasn't constantly playing against people like that when playing with the general public.  I just take it for granted thats how multi player gaming is and just take it for what it is.

[Ingmar]

Interesting stuff, I hadn't watched that yet.

[Musashi]

Did that guy introduce himself as, "H to the usky?"  Did I hear that right?  Holy shit!

[Thrawn]

Blizzard probably missed a good cash opportunity if they had included beta keys in the collectors edition if you pre-order now.  No refunds once the key is redeemed or something.

[lamaros]

Was that Thor video before the recent changes or after? It seems to have been posted around the same time?

Anyhow. Watching a lot of youtube videos and enjoying it heaps. I don't really get why so many of you in here are so shocked by the multi-player being so competitive, though. You still have single player, user maps, and just a fun game with your friends to play with... and how do you stop people being competitive anyhow if it's multi-player? People will make anything competitive if they're like that, and many enjoy doing so, it would be far stranger, and worse for sales and the fun of the game (not to mention impossible), if Blizzard somehow designed the game to make things like building placement and build order irrelevant...

Btw if anyone has a friends key to share with me, I will send you delicious dates in the mail!

[Teleku]

Btw if anyone has a friends key to share with me, I will send you delicious dates in the mail!

Do you run a Russian Mail Order Bride service or something?

[Draegan]

Did that guy introduce himself as, "H to the usky?"  Did I hear that right?  Holy shit!

Yeah I just heard that.  That dude is too white to be saying that. 

[Quinton]

I've always found there are effectively three different "games" in an RTS like this...

There's the single player campaign which can be a lot of fun if you're into that (but it's not part of beta).

There's the playing online against the crazy hardcore people which wears me down pretty fast.

There's lan play with friends or coworkers, which was how I always played, and I found more enjoyable.

I'm in it for just 1 and 3 myself.

Same.  I have no illusions about surviving at all in competitive online games.  I don't pay enough attention to build order optimization and all that insanity, and honestly I don't want to.  Some casual 1v1 or 2v2 with friends who aren't super-hardcore is enough multiplayer for me.

[Ironwood]

The Warcraft III matching service was awesome since it tended to put you in amongst people of similar skill.

[Malakili]

I was chatting with a friend earlier, and I think I was able to figure out my issues with the game a little more.

I think its that Starcraft 2 seems to play best at the high end and isn't nearly as good at the low to middle skill range.  When I see awesome games casted on youtube, I think, "Wow, if I had that experience, I would love this game"  But I don't.  And I got to thinking why, and I think it has something to do with the fact that as you get lower and lower in skill level, the more things like build order matter.   In a high end match, build order obviously matters a lot, but if you are sufficiently skilled, you can do things like fight off a bigger army at your ramp while you are teching up with a smaller army that is built for solid defense and microed well.  At my skill level, a bigger army pretty much wins, period, barring things like hard counters (invis units v. no detectors or something).   That means that the best consistent strategy in the lower skill levels is just to build lots of units really fast and whoever makes more units before the initial push generally wins.  That doens't make for a very fun game in my opinion.

[LK]

I think its that Starcraft 2 seems to play best at the high end and isn't nearly as good at the low to middle skill range.

For this very reason, I sort of want to see the game not perform to expectations.

Instead what I expect is that it'll sell well due to hype, "It's Blizzard!", and WoW Fanatics trying to get a Thor. Well-played, but sort of hollow.

[Ratman_tf]

I wants the Thor pet, but I'm still grinding my teeth over the three boxes for each storyline thing.

[LK]

I blame RTS game design and how they wanted to do something with single player that was counter-intuitive to telling a story from three different perspectives. Also, let's just toss Bobby in there for good measure.

[K9]

I think making sequential campaigns actually makes it easier to tell a better story, where all the major characters interact more. Having three parallel stories where everyone goes from zero to hero makes for some weird narrative issues.

I have high hopes for the single player campaigns; and I know private play with friends and housemates where we just tech up on money maps will keep us sufficiently entertained.

[Malakili]

and I know private play with friends and housemates where we just tech up on money maps will keep us sufficiently entertained.

My problem is I actually don't like that kind of game very much.  I like the quick nature of the games, I like early attacks, I like a lot of back and forth WHILE teching up, and so forth.  I like having to expand to get sufficient resources and I like the idea of fighting over a limited number of resources on the map (even more pronounced with high yield resources in SC2.  The problems, however, are like I mentioned earlier so I won' state them again here.

Playing DoW2 along side this really made me realize how much I like the direction that DoW2 has taken the RTS genre.  Too bad it hasn't caught on as much, even though it does definitely have plenty of people playing it.

[LK]

It's not like Blizzard can forge off into new game design territory at this point with any of their properties without pissing off their fan base. It would be interesting to see what happens after their next MMO, SC2, and D3. But that's probably a solid decade out.

Kinda like Bungie and Halo right now.

[Malakili]

It's not like Blizzard can forge off into new game design territory at this point with any of their properties without pissing off their fan base. It would be interesting to see what happens after their next MMO, SC2, and D3. But that's probably a solid decade out.

Kinda like Bungie and Halo right now.

Well, thats true, I wasn't suggesting that Blizzard drastically change SC2 to make it more like DoW2, just commenting on why I like on more than the other.   Starcraft is an interesting story because I think the reason it was originally popular is VERY different from the reason is stayed popular for so long.  It became an esport, but SC2 has to aim for being esport off the bat.

[climbjtree]

I really hope I'm not bloodworthing this because it's way too awesome:

Starcraft 2 Beta Break Up 

[Draegan]

I really hope I'm not bloodworthing this because it's way too awesome:

Starcraft 2 Beta Break Up 

Scroll down and read the comments.

[LK]

HAHAHAHAHA. If you stop at the first page you'll live a happier life than going on further.

[Thrawn]

I really hope I'm not bloodworthing this

You are. 

[Margalis]

I blame RTS game design and how they wanted to do something with single player that was counter-intuitive to telling a story from three different perspectives. Also, let's just toss Bobby in there for good measure.

Why not blame the actual problem: they want more money.

I like Starcraft 2 but I too hope it doesn't perform as well as it seems destined to. Breaking it up into 3 games irks but my main problem is just how ultraconservative it is. When SC1 came out the graphics were awesome while the graphics of SC2 are merely average. In the era of Starcraft 1 having three different races with different units and mechanics was pretty special. More than ten years later the same three races with the same units and mechanics is underwhelming. It's like if Street Fighter 4 came out without the Alpha or Three series in between it and 2 and had no new characters.

[Malakili]

I blame RTS game design and how they wanted to do something with single player that was counter-intuitive to telling a story from three different perspectives. Also, let's just toss Bobby in there for good measure.

Why not blame the actual problem: they want more money.

I like Starcraft 2 but I too hope it doesn't perform as well as it seems destined to. Breaking it up into 3 games irks but my main problem is just how ultraconservative it is. When SC1 came out the graphics were awesome while the graphics of SC2 are merely average. In the era of Starcraft 1 having three different races with different units and mechanics was pretty special. More than ten years later the same three races with the same units and mechanics is underwhelming. It's like if Street Fighter 4 came out without the Alpha or Three series in between it and 2 and had no new characters.

Starcrat 2 is a victim of its own success, and the manner of its success.  While new races, or crazy new mechanics might seem like a great idea, the reason Starcraft is such a popular series is that it became an e-sport.  Blizzard has to live up to what happened basically accidentally in SC1, on purpose with SC2.   Not to mention, its hard enough to balance 3 races well.  Add in another and balance is going to be a nightmare.  Same with new units really.  Look at the balancing act they are already trying to do with the roach and marauder.

[Draegan]

I really hope I'm not bloodworthing this

You are. 

I didn't see him post it anywhere.

[Ratman_tf]

Playing DoW2 along side this really made me realize how much I like the direction that DoW2 has taken the RTS genre.  Too bad it hasn't caught on as much, even though it does definitely have plenty of people playing it.

Personally, I'd like to see the DOW series ditch the RTS aspect altogether and go turn based or semi-turn based 40k proper. I liked DOW, but the control point scheme didn't change the way I play RTSes in any measurable way. It's still all about pumping out units until the other guy dies. And I hate squads. They just don't feel right. IMO of course.