NHL Playoffs '09

[Azaroth]

I can't stand Olczyk. That guy has been spewing chunky bitterness over the firing for HOW many years now on national television?

Get the fuck over it.

[naum]

I can't stand Olczyk. That guy has been spewing chunky bitterness over the firing for HOW many years now on national television?

Surprised he's allowed to call the Finals with Pens in it, as his resentment is obvious. Likewise, I wouldn't expect Bob Errey to be in the booth (funny though, about Larry Murphy, even though he won 2 cups with Pittsburgh and 2 with Detroit, he sure sounds partial to Pens too).

Emrick, no doubt, has fans gained from his nearly 40 years of brodcasting. He's mildly annoying, but what's grating is the cross-talk between Olcyzk and McGuire. Both competing to see who can state the obvious quicker. Need to dump that between the benches guy. If I was playing, I think I'd fire a puck at his grill. We don't need to be that intimate with the players, just show us what is happening on the ice. With all this technology, you'd think they'd not miss replays or would come up with some innovative screen stuff. Like a flashing overlay on a line change with the sweater #s popping on and off.

UPDATE: wow, Murphy is Red Wings broadcaster. I would never guess that from his NHL Live commentator shtick.

And the NHL needs to hold their officials more accountable, like NFL is starting to do. On NFL channel, every week, the head of the officials does a half hour segment to answer all the objectionable/contested calls. And he's up front about missed calls or he argues the case based on the rulebook and defends the officials.

[Slayerik]

I think the last 20 seconds of that game is the most fire I've seen from the Pens. Malkin had a case in the ass for Zetterburg, and it was good to finally see some emotion from them.

Back to penalties, it's kinda like the NFL where receivers get away with push offs....if the ref has a bad angle, how can you call it? Shit happens way too fast and behind the play sometimes to catch. The best receivers all walk the line of pushing off and fighting for position. It's the same way with these slight picks in hockey. Slow them down just a cunt hair, buying enough time for your defense to catch up or your offense to get by. Interference is very tough like that.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=424480&intcmpid=tckr

No Malkin suspension. Shocker there.

A league that enforces a suspension for missing an all star game, but doesn't enforce the instigator rule... or the rule that states you have to drop your stick before a fight! Guess that makes up for the thousands of elbows by DET last game.... :P

[HaemishM]

No Malkin suspension. Shocker there.

A league that enforces a suspension for missing an all star game, but doesn't enforce the instigator rule... or the rule that states you have to drop your stick before a fight! Guess that makes up for the thousands of elbows by DET last game.... :P

Yeah, not shocked, but he certainly should have gotten something for that shit. You don't start a fight with a stick in hand, and you don't punch the refs. You stop punching when the refs get between you like that. Both he and Zetterberg should have a one-game timeout for that, but again... this is Bettman's NHL. The rule book is a guideline.

[Slayerik]

Well, I will say in Zetterburg's defence, cause obviously I'm a Detroit fan, he wasn't trying to fight Malkin. It took him 10 secs of getting punched at to finally say fuck it, drop the gloves, and get a shot or two in. Malkin was out of line there. Flailing around like a fuckin' kid.

[Azaroth]

Malkin popped Zetterberg several good ones.

No, Zetterberg did not necessarily want to fight. As evidenced by the punches thrown with gloves on and the shots taken after the ref was in.

What Zetterberg wanted to do is what all Detroit players want to do - act like bitches and not have to defend themselves for it.

As far as wanting Malking to be suspended... heh. Absolutely nobody in the hockey world agrees with Detroit fans on that one and I'll leave it there.

[Slayerik]

I don't want him suspended. I enjoy watching the Wings spank these guys with all their best players. It was still a bad call if you are trying to look fair.

What did Zetterburg do to 'act like a bitch'? He pushed the guy that blatantly slashed his goalie (as would ANY player in the fuckin NHL - and Zetterburg is not a dirty player by any stretch), and Malkin gets some hard on, cause well his team is outmatched again this year, and starts flailing at Zetterburg like a child throwing a tantrum. He is handily brought to the ice, ref comes in, he's controlled, and punched a few times by ole Zetterburg. I'm not trying to claim Zetterburg is a fighter, but what the fuck was with Malkin, really? Frustrated. Knows he's going to lose.

Ole Malkin better watch him self. The 'dirty cheap shotting' Detroit squad will be after him. LOL

[Azaroth]

You've got a funny definition of a slash.

Perhaps turn the Red Wings broadcast down and check your goalie out a little closer. Guy is a diver, always has been.

[Slayerik]

Are you fuckin kidding me on this one? Am I being trolled?

You think that was a legal play? You don't do that kinda shit to a goalie and not get punished...that's just the game.

And oh yeah, he got called for it.

The nice part about my surround sound is it does something where the announcers are basically almost muted. All I hear is rink sounds, it's pretty sweet. Anyway, the only HD channel was NBC...so that's what I watched.

Osgood will continue to quietly do what he does, win championships. A lot of that is the squad around him, but the guy is good.

[naum]

It was a bullshit call on Malkin… …both guys should have been sent off, NHL just rectifying blatant referee favortism to Red Wings. It was end of game and refs let it to get to that state by not whistling all the elbows, clutching, grabbing, slashing, holding, etc.… that Red Wings were permitted all game long.

If they're not going to call it the way it's been called for all season long and 3 rounds of Stanley Cup playoffs, they should at least announce it beforehand. Say "we're not calling jack, no holds barred, let 'em play…" and be done with it.

The officiating was a travesty, but then again, no surprise for the NHL.

[naum]

And tell me that's not a dive by Osgood…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfrHdSjZZcA

[Surlyboi]

Dive or not, you do NOT fucking spear a goalie unless you're a total tard or you're looking to make a point.

[naum]

Dive or not, you do NOT fucking spear a goalie unless you're a total tard or you're looking to make a point.

Puck was loose, skater has right to knock it in.

Goalies have nice thick pads you know.

[Slayerik]

Are you really defending that cheap shot? It was blatant, and uncalled for. Yes, there was some dive there. Still, you try standing on two blades while a very strong 200 lb hockey player spears you like that :P

Either way, keep crying about officiating because it's all you got. Maybe your boys will show some heart and win both these games in Pitt. I wouldn't hold your breath though. Fluery is pretty bad from what I've seen.

[Slayerik]

Dive or not, you do NOT fucking spear a goalie unless you're a total tard or you're looking to make a point.

Puck was loose, skater has right to knock it in.

Goalies have nice thick pads you know.

If a puck is on the ice around the goalie, spear away at it. If it is visible but trapped in his pads, you don't have the right to hack it out. It was a desperation, idiotic play. Move along.

[Paelos]

It was a spearing, and Malkin fighting was really really funny. The whole time I'm sitting there going, this is just getting silly.

[Slayerik]

You've got a funny definition of a slash.

Perhaps turn the Red Wings broadcast down and check your goalie out a little closer. Guy is a diver, always has been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOYaEIyR3-0

No dives here. Just wanted to bring some fun back into the thread. My brother was at this game.

I had to miss it cause of work. He'll never let me live it down.

[Azaroth]

Watch it in slow motion.

Talbot is looking at, and directly going for, the puck in Osgood's arm. It's not even that hard of a push with the stick. Osgood flops like a bitch. Evidencing that he barely has it is the fact that it falls into the net when he flops over.

Should Talbot have done that? Nope. Goalie has it, leave it be regardless of what a desperate situation in the game is in.

Are you people being complete bitches screaming and moaning about how close to murder it was?

Yes, absolutely.

[Paelos]

It was a spearing with 20s left. It wasn't a big deal. As a result nothing came of it at all. Let's play a new game, what will Pens fans talk about after the next loss?

A - The refs, again.
B - We outshot them, WTF? Where's the defense?
C - Global warming is ruining ice conditions.
D - I bent my wookie.

[Azaroth]

And Detroit can:

1. Defend the refs for letting them do whatever they want because it works in their favour
2. Scream and cry about another one of their divers diving, demanding that someone be executed over it
3. Scream and cry that one of their players was acting like a bitch all series and got bitchslapped, then demand that the regular season and playoff leading scorer be SUSPENDED FOR ALL TIME!
4. Party (play hockey) like it's 1999!


Can't wait 'till Tuesday?

Or, actually, I can. Because the Red Wings ruins hockey, and it's no wonder people don't go to the fucking games in Detroit.

Have you sold out a game in the playoffs yet, yo?

[Slayerik]

And Detroit can:

1. Defend the refs for letting them do whatever they want because it works in their favour
2. Scream and cry about another one of their divers diving, demanding that someone be executed over it
3. Scream and cry that one of their players was acting like a bitch all series and got bitchslapped, then demand that the regular season and playoff leading scorer be SUSPENDED FOR ALL TIME!
4. Party (play hockey) like it's 1999!


Can't wait 'till Tuesday?

Or, actually, I can. Because the Red Wings ruins hockey, and it's no wonder people don't go to the fucking games in Detroit.

Have you sold out a game in the playoffs yet, yo?

Are you serious? Now you really are trolling.

[El Gallo]

Rarely do you hear so much complaining about refs letting stuff go. Get over yourselves Pittsburgh. This is fucking hockey. Play five on five and win or don't..

Refs "letting stuff go" basically destroyed the NHL and made it utterly unwatchable garbage from 1994-2007.  Big hits are one thing.  Tactical defense is another.  But hooking/holding/obstruction turn hockey from the fastest, most beautiful and creative game on the planet to something resembling two high schoolers grapple after class really, really, really fast.  They've let too much shit go in this series, and the quality of the gameplay has suffered for it.

That said, I'm about as big a Pens fan as you'll find and I don't see the bias others see as far as interference non-calls.  Especially in game one, the Penguins got away with a fair number of hooks and a METRIC FUCKTON of interference. 

The reason they're losing is that Fleury is making big mistakes and Osgood isn't.  I've been pleasantly surprised, as the overall play has been relatively even.  Even with the injuries Detroit has, I thought they'd dominate in shots, quality chances and attack zone time.  Pittsburgh is closer to the Wings than I thought.  With a couple breaks, they might've been able to win this Cup.  With another year of muscle on Malkin and Crosby as they approach their physical peaks, and the core of the Wings continues to age, they might not need any breaks to win next year.  More plausibly two.

But, right now, the Wings are the best team in the NHL, and by a good bit.

[Paelos]

I agree with all your points. The New Jersey trap made hockey so stupid to watch, it's amazing I actually got into it.

That being said, elbows are not going to be called all the time, nor will "interference", or hooks. They happen a ton in the game and some are severe and deserve penalties while others are relatively minor and meaningless to the overall flow of the game. Also it's hard to catch them all. Tripping, high-sticks, and blatant holds/boarding should always be called and if they aren't I do take exception with that.

[Azaroth]

Detroit has done nothing but play a strict trap this entire series. Down a goal, up a goal, from the drop of the puck to the final horn Detroit has played the trap.

[Strazos]

I was really hoping Zetterberg would plaster Malkin. Shame.

You want to talk about bitches on the Wings? lol

[Surlyboi]

Rarely do you hear so much complaining about refs letting stuff go. Get over yourselves Pittsburgh. This is fucking hockey. Play five on five and win or don't..

Refs "letting stuff go" basically destroyed the NHL and made it utterly unwatchable garbage from 1994-2007. 

Screw you, hippie. You're talking about my first career there. 

Though, I suppose it's a coincidence that my working at the league was about the same time as Bettman's start. Still, while I was there, there was a lot of internal debate about that very issue. If you look at the Wings of the mid-90s, they were the equivalent of today's Pens. Getting the shit held out of them by the Devils and then getting shit beat out of them by the Avs taught them they needed to re-think their game. They did that and they've been rather dominant ever since.

Trust me, I'm sure I and a lot of other fans both outsiders and current and former insiders would rather it went back to the old ways, but I don't think that's gonna happen any time soon.

[HaemishM]

The reason they're losing is that Fleury is making big mistakes and Osgood isn't. 

Let's be real here. Osgood hasn't been stellar. In Game 2 especially, he got his ass saved by the post at least what... 3, 4 times? He's gotten lucky bounces go his way that Fleury hasn't. Osgood has been better, but he's hardly been mistake-free, and any number of his mistakes could have been in the back of the net. It helps that he has defensemen who actually know how to clear the crease worth a shit, whereas Fleury has defensemen who don't move, don't follow the puck and don't protect him worth a rat fuck.

[Surlyboi]

Bingo.

[naum]

The reason they're losing is that Fleury is making big mistakes and Osgood isn't. 

Let's be real here. Osgood hasn't been stellar. In Game 2 especially, he got his ass saved by the post at least what... 3, 4 times? He's gotten lucky bounces go his way that Fleury hasn't. Osgood has been better, but he's hardly been mistake-free, and any number of his mistakes could have been in the back of the net. It helps that he has defensemen who actually know how to clear the crease worth a shit, whereas Fleury has defensemen who don't move, don't follow the puck and don't protect him worth a rat fuck.

Eh, Osgood has outplayed Fleury.

Fleury got beat bad on the board rebounds in game #1, which I cannot fault him too much since he would not be familiar with building quirks.

In game #2, Fleury gave up a real softie for goal #3, and still, though his rebound control has improved, still yields a fat one at least once a period.

That said, not the reason Pens are down 2-0. It's due to (a) in large part to the vast change in officiating from the 1st 3 series (Detroit has suffered on PK, so please don't tell me it's not a factor), (b) bad bounces (i.e., the posts and the board caroms) and (c) while the Penguins have been their equal or better in play, Red Wings have been the better squad in the last 10 minutes of play, clutching up while Penguins are frenzied (same thing happen to Hawks, they melted down in 3rd periods).'

Finally, as much as I think Babcock is a dick, his coaching record speaks for itself…

[Surlyboi]

Babcock's not as big of a dick as Bowman and Crawford were. 

[naum]

Babcock's not as big of a dick as Bowman and Crawford were. 

That's like saying Michael Moore isn't as fat as that 600+ pound guy that needs to be wedged out of his crib…

[Slayerik]

The reason they're losing is that Fleury is making big mistakes and Osgood isn't. 

Let's be real here. Osgood hasn't been stellar. In Game 2 especially, he got his ass saved by the post at least what... 3, 4 times? He's gotten lucky bounces go his way that Fleury hasn't. Osgood has been better, but he's hardly been mistake-free, and any number of his mistakes could have been in the back of the net. It helps that he has defensemen who actually know how to clear the crease worth a shit, whereas Fleury has defensemen who don't move, don't follow the puck and don't protect him worth a rat fuck.

Eh, Osgood has outplayed Fleury.

Fleury got beat bad on the board rebounds in game #1, which I cannot fault him too much since he would not be familiar with building quirks.

In game #2, Fleury gave up a real softie for goal #3, and still, though his rebound control has improved, still yields a fat one at least once a period.

That said, not the reason Pens are down 2-0. It's due to (a) in large part to the vast change in officiating from the 1st 3 series (Detroit has suffered on PK, so please don't tell me it's not a factor), (b) bad bounces (i.e., the posts and the board caroms) and (c) while the Penguins have been their equal or better in play, Red Wings have been the better squad in the last 10 minutes of play, clutching up while Penguins are frenzied (same thing happen to Hawks, they melted down in 3rd periods).'

Finally, as much as I think Babcock is a dick, his coaching record speaks for itself…

For your point A) , whats the pen's powerplay percentage (if you want to bring up Detroits PK)? Would it have covered the two goal deficit in both games? Doubt it. Plenty of non-calls in Game 1, Pens got away with some shit. Game two, Det did. To say the officiating is the main reason for them being down 2-0 is funny though. I'd say their inability to play 5 on 5 hockey would be the main reason.

Penalty minutes thus far (not counting the last 40 sec on G2):
4:00 min Detroit, 2:00 min Pit

2:00 min Detroit, 2:00 min Pit

I'd rather see that than a game overcalled.

[Paelos]

The real reasons Pens are down 2-0 in this series: They suck at shooting even-strength with only one goal in 2 games, and Crosby has zero points.

[Azaroth]

Crosby has zero points because Guerin and Kunitz are post snipers.

[Montague]

As a casual Pens fan I was glad to see Malkin go after Zetterberg. Kinda pathetic but he at least finally showed some spark.

Look, you have to give the devil his due: The Red Wings are a damn good team and they're very good at what they do. They're kinda like hockey's version of the Steelers in that they have a system and they pick players that fit the system instead of chasing so-called talent. And like the Steelers, the only way to beat them is to punch them in the face.

So Zetterberg is draped all over Crosby, fine. Where is Goddard? Where is the fourth line guy planting a cross-check across Zetterberg's head? Why are Pittsburgh's defensemen playing tick-tack pokecheck with a rookie on a 1 on 2 instead of decapitating him? Because they're playing the same pussy hockey they did in the late 90's when Lemieux was there, with the same result.