Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Falconeer]

Redundant, but seriously:

What's wrong with you NCwest? Do you really believe this is good for a modern MMORPG finances, or the XP ratio is locked by NCkorea and you can't do shit to save the game? Cause that simple ratio, which I guess it's just a simple number buried in a sea of code, is going to kill your game one subscription at a time.

Seriously, if the game was running at rest-XP speed by default, which is 30% faster, it would feel ALMOST ok. Almost.

[waffel]

Can the people that bought this explain to me why they thought this WOULDN'T be grindy?

[01101010]

Can the people that bought this explain to me why they thought this WOULDN'T be grindy?

I, for one, believed it WOULD be grindy, but not to these extremes. I like to think of a grind in terms of a sliding scale since all DIKU's have a grind. I'd push this game into the FFXI realm of post-EQ grindy...if not past. NCSoft > SE in terms of grind these days.

[Ard]

I knew there'd be grind.  That part didn't bother me.  The fact that it goes from relatively tolerable (1-23ish, 25-28 for asmodian at least) to a vertical wall (24-25, 32ish+) is the part that bothers me.  In a game where level is pretty much everything for pvp, this is a problem.

[Xanthippe]

Can the people that bought this explain to me why they thought this WOULDN'T be grindy?

I bought this knowing it would be grindy (by grindy, I take it you mean repetitive for far too long before getting a ding), but I also figured I'd get a month or two of fun out of it.  I did.  

For me, though, deciding to not play any longer had more to do with the bots and lack of customer service than the grind.

[Falconeer]

Well, short explanation is many thought it would have been grindy but accepted the fact they were not going to "finish it", more like just having a couple of weeks of mild fun (fake edit: Xanthippe just said it!).

To me, it's different. I accept the grindiness as I perform the task by watching many, many movies on my second monitor. Basically I'm doing what I usually do, movies, while my hands repeat a mechanical and repetitive task with the occasional thrill of PvP, loot or Ding! Do you really think I could grind Trolls for 11 hours nonstop just to get the number 37 to replace the number 36 on the lower left corner of my screen if I weren't actually doing something else? (Please say no)

The fun, before you ask, comes when we go out as a group looking for trouble/PvP, when we occasionally do an instance especially the fortress ones where you basically just loot chests, when there's a fortress defense/siege with massive PvP battles, and when we'll get new content with the upcoming expansions. Hah.

And finally, many thought it would have not been grindy because false informations about the 'ungrindyness' have been aptly spread before launch. Coupled with sexy clothing and revealing underwear, boxes have been sold.


Changing subject, someone would explain me what am I missing about Abyss Rank? Basically, the higher you are the more you have to lose. Being higher rank gives you NO bonus of any kind, no advantage, NOTHING. Bragging rights maybe? Screw that, since the higher your rank the more AP you lose with every death. And since APs are more important than money at some point, you really don't want to lose any over silly and questionable bragging rights.

So seriously, why in the world should anyone choose to gain Ranks? Now, saving up AP is mandatory to buy the better stuff, but the system really tells you to spend them AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The result is, the Abyss Rank is an absolutely false indication and a useless stat, since the best player in the world/game could have just spent a million AP to get the best gear and that would make him a Soldier Rank 9 (lowest level). What am I missing? Maybe a future expansion?

[Morfiend]

I thought it would be quest grindy, which I am ok with. I didnt really think they would fall back on the "camp this spawn for 12 hours to level" grind. Not in 2009, not in a NA market. But....

[Kageh]

Redundant, but seriously:

What's wrong with you NCwest? Do you really believe this is good for a modern MMORPG finances, or the XP ratio is locked by NCkorea and you can't do shit to save the game? Cause that simple ratio, which I guess it's just a simple number buried in a sea of code, is going to kill your game one subscription at a time.

Seriously, if the game was running at rest-XP speed by default, which is 30% faster, it would feel ALMOST ok. Almost.

I'd assume the designers do take some time to tune economy, drops and all that to the exp curve though. Didn't someone say that the cash shortage somewhere mid-leveling curve is due to the current game version already having way faster leveling?

[Shatter]

Not sure this got posted yet, didnt see it

NCSoft bans 16000 accounts

http://na.aiononline.com/forums/general/view?articleID=9140

Good morning Daevas!
 
As you probably noticed, we've completed a server wide reboot without much notice on a day that we typically don't perform maintenance. It's only fair that we keep you in the loop and make sure you know what's going on. Over the last week we've been working on a list, we've been checking it twice, and today we found out who was naughty or nice. Ban Hammer Claus just came to town. When the servers come back online, nearly 16,000 accounts will have been removed from the game. If your account was banned, please read the following FAQ.


 

***

1. Why was I banned?
 

There could be many reasons your account was closed. If you did not receive notification of your violation via e-mail please create a support ticket and the violation will be explained to you.  Please note that if your account was closed for the use of 3rd party software (botting) or participating in RMT (gold buying/selling) the evidence for the account closure was gathered over several weeks. It may be completely unrelated to what your character was doing right when your account was closed.
 

2. … but I wasn’t botting, buying Kinah or spamming advertisements! I’m innocent!
 

Any action that modifies the client or automates the same way a bot does could potentially flag an account as a violator. We do not use one specific instance to “flag” an account for botting or RMT. We use many instances to strengthen our conclusions. Please understand that it is not what “you” have done on your account, but what the account has done. If your account is shared, purchased, borrowed, or power leveled, it could be the actions of anyone who’s ever used the account.  
 

3. I’m aware of all of the above, but I have never done any of it. Who do I contact?
To request a review, please create a support ticket.
 

We are taking a very hard stance on this issue and do have sophisticated processes and procedures in place that help us keep unwarranted banning to a minimum. If you believe you’ve been wrongfully banned, you can email us at support@ncsoft.com, and we will review your account. Our goal is to ensure our legitimate players are having the best game experience possible. Please note that you don’t need to submit multiple tickets, as we will review a specific case only once. We obviously take these violations seriously, but also want to make sure that legitimate players aren’t banned unnecessarily.

I can say that my favorite farming spots dont have bots here anymore...been vacant all day :)

[Draegan]

I thought it would be quest grindy, which I am ok with. I didnt really think they would fall back on the "camp this spawn for 12 hours to level" grind. Not in 2009, not in a NA market. But....

Yeah this.

[Falconeer]

Not sure this got posted yet, didnt see it

NCSoft bans 16000 accounts

I claim bullshit! I've been grinding mindlessly and made myself indistinguishable from a bot for 20 days and they didn't ban me. This is all propaganda!

[sam, an eggplant]

I didnt really think they would fall back on the "camp this spawn for 12 hours to level" grind. Not in 2009, not in a NA market. But....

Wow, reading that makes me doubly glad I stayed far away from this game. Reminds me of EQ. Horrifying.

[Ingmar]

What's wrong with you NCwest? Do you really believe this is good for a modern MMORPG finances, or the XP ratio is locked by NCkorea and you can't do shit to save the game?

I'm sure that's exactly it. When have the local teams for any game ever had the power to change fundamental things about it like the leveling curve?

[Falconeer]

Ok Ingmar (et al). But why? NC Korea doesn't like Western money? I think they can read subscription numbers as well as we can see people quitting daily. Actually better. Do they really think that making it easier to hit level 50 could hurt their finances?

[sam, an eggplant]

From what I hear, NC made significant changes to the game to make it more palatable for western audiences. Not mechanic changes, we're talking modifications that cost real money, like recording dialogue, new art, rewriting all the quests, etc. Maybe the difference is that they classify all that stuff under "localization" and core mechanics like the leveling curve are inviolate. Who knows? I'm just glad I'm not being subjected to it.

[Threash]

Grindy is a feeling, increasing the exp gain is not going to make the game "fun" if you are not having fun already.  Having 30% or 50% less unfun time isn't going to fix the game in any way.  The time to level is already about the same as most other games, cutting the time down for people who are already NOT having fun doesn't seem very smart.  They are better off working on making the game fun.

[Falconeer]

The time to level is already about the same as most other games

Cmon, dude. Seriously. You know I'm on your same boat. Let's not make it a clownboat...

[Threash]

The time to level is already about the same as most other games

Cmon, dude. Seriously. You know I'm on your same boat. Let's not make it a clownboat...

Really? you think 3-4 months to max level is not average?

[Falconeer]

3 - 4 months means nothing. Only thing that matters is /played, which in Aion is purposedly hidden. And I think the total /played needed to max out a char in Aion is the longest in any game since 2003. EQ1, DAoC, up to Lineage 2 were (were) longer. In 2004, five years ago, all of a sudden the industry learned something.

[Threash]

Yes you THINK that because its a grindy ass game that you don't enjoy playing while WoW was fun and new and exciting.  I have the same amount of free time i did when wow launched, do the same job and spend the same amount of time gaming and i'm on pace to reach max level in about half the time i did in WoW, granted some of that is play style focused on leveling rather than experiencing the game like in WoW but once again thats a result of the game being less fun, or simply more of the same i guess.  It sure as hell won't take you any more /played time to max here than it did your first time in WoW just like it it didn't take that much longer in warhammer either, but like that game the problem lies in doing the same thing time after time hour after hour so it feels like a lot longer when in WoW or whatever older games you played everything was new and fresh and fun. 

[Falconeer]

Sigh. But I hate WoW, with passion. My point is not that WoW is cool. My point is AIon level curve is longer than everything else (you said it's not). And with absolutely no good reasons for that.

It sure as hell won't take you any more /played time to max here than it did your first time in WoW

Cmon. You are just wrong here. And yes I'm talking about /played, not fun or grind.

[Threash]

Shrug, like i said my play time hasn't changed at all this decade and the only game i've ever noticed a severe deviation from the 3-4 months of regular play time to max level has been shadowbane.  Believe me or not, you are clearly not having fun leveling so without an actual /played number its really impossible to know for sure.  I used WoW as an example, thats what most people compare their leveling time too, they just forget they were having fun while playing wow.

[Falconeer]

I really think you are wrong, Threash. That's fine though.

[Shatter]

I know people who quit at level 22 cause the said it was a grind. I just leveled my third toon through level 22 using killing and just rest XP and I blew through 22.  Not a single quest so I dunno.  I understand where Threash is coming from, I play less today then I did when WOW came out and Im level 45 in Aion and the game has been out 2 months.  I know V-WOW took me over 2 months to reach max level and I played a lot more.  I can say it feels more grindy but my leveling curve compared to other MMO's isnt far off if that makes any sense

[Ceryse]

It takes a lot longer to level in Aion than it did even in vanilla WoW. My first character in WoW (no beta or pre-release knowledge of any kind -- shit, I tried to level in Desolace!) took me around 16 days /played to hit 60. In Aion, I played fairly hardcore and I hit level 50 after just over 27 days /played (yes, I kept track and was aware it'd have been faster had I not been a crafting-whore); although, to be fair, I was a Cleric. Until around level 42 I was the third highest Cleric on my faction/server and then I just couldn't take it after that. The grind, for me, didn't really set in until mid-30s, but 40+ was like shitting bricks for every level, especially with how boring the instances were when combined with shit loot drop rules (hello Steel Rake and enough runs to get three of the repeatable quest items and still only three orange drops from bosses).

I just recently quit Aion, personally. I'm satisfied in terms of money:enjoyment and time, but.. between the grind and the utter lack of depth at end game I decided to hang up my hat on the game; especially now that I'm not bed-ridden and can do far more interesting/enjoyable things, and I couldn't play a MMO casually regardless of how fun it was.

The game was decent, for a DIKU game, but they really missed the boat on some core mechanics (I'm sorry; bosses should always drop loot -- doesn't always have to be good loot, but christ... number of bosses we only got a Manastone or nothing from made more than a few people I know ragequit) and a disturbing issue with bots killed the game for a lot of people I know.

[Numtini]

Can the people that bought this explain to me why they thought this WOULDN'T be grindy?

I didn't end up buying it, but from my time in the beta which was only up to I dunno 11 or 12, it played like a modern western game in terms of level speed. I'm quite surprised to hear that just comes to an abrupt end.

[ajax34i]

I bought it because a friend asked me to come play with them, and I've met a bunch of people in the meantime that make the game palatable.

They need to add serious loot to every damn instance boss, and even to the trash.  For me, grinding for xp and doing the few quests is ok, I only play an hour or two a day, I'm barely 35 (no crafting), so as long as I have decent people to game with I'm good.  No loot on instance runs is shit, though.

RE: NC West vs. NC Korea vs. changes, it's always a matter of the cost of implementing and supporting two different builds at the same time, vs. the profit from it.  I don't think they want to maintain two diverging builds, really, so what you see is West getting the hand-me-downs from Korea.  I don't think West has the devs to handle re-coding and maintaining their own build, either.

[gryeyes]

I really think you are wrong, Threash. That's fine though.

You dont THINK he is wrong, he is wrong. Yeah, 12-48hrs of /played to level after 32 is par for western MMO's.

[01101010]

I didn't end up buying it, but from my time in the beta which was only up to I dunno 11 or 12, it played like a modern western game in terms of level speed. I'm quite surprised to hear that just comes to an abrupt end.

That seems to be the hook though. Make leveling fast enough to be appealing to the masses early on, then put in an almost vertical escalator after. The trick is to hook them and then make them think they have invested a lot to get to this point that it would be a shame to quit now - combined with extending that "need" to get to the end as long as possible. I seriously think they designed it so they get enough people in the game and invested to draw in at least 3 month subs considering the first month is filled with fun and the last two are filled with getting to the cap.

[Falconeer]

Well, I'm a grindy kid in a candystore.

Expansion video is up. The future of Aion.

[gryeyes]

So much wasted awesome.

[Falconeer]

Well, I am so happy I am on board. So much awesome, and it's all for me.  


List of stuff:

Graphics improvement (apparently HDR)
Seasons/environmental effects
Swimming and underwater exploration/combat
Ships
Houses with furniture
Mounts, ability to mount random creatures
New skills
Flying tricks
Epic looking events
End of zoning (I think), asmodian capital opens right up onto battlefield (rather than locked in)

EDIT: I've been waiting for real seasonal effects in a MMORPG since forever. If they get this right, they have my soul.

Now seriously, housing and taming UO/SWG style? "Aion the Sandbox Expansion"? What an awesome plot twist. On with the massive naysaying, but this is goodness of the sweetest kind.

[gryeyes]

Loop that video as you grind 11 hrs to 36.

[nurtsi]

That video includes basically every feature ever wanted by any MMO player. Player housing, mounts, mounted combat, etc.

So yeah, looks awesome, but nobody has pulled those off yet in a single game. I believe when they actually launch it.

[Falconeer]

Loop that video as you grind 11 hrs to 36.

Don't need to. As I said before:

To me, it's different. I accept the grindiness as I perform the task by watching many, many movies on my second monitor. Basically I'm doing what I usually do, movies, while my hands repeat a mechanical and repetitive task with the occasional thrill of PvP, loot or Ding!
[...]
The fun, before you ask, comes when we go out as a group looking for trouble/PvP, when we occasionally do an instance especially the fortress ones where you basically just loot chests, when there's a fortress defense/siege with massive PvP battles, and when we'll get new content with the upcoming expansions. Hah

Win/win for me.